SemperParatus

Fscouter, So do you have Webelo dens crossing over to your troop in let's say July and September and November? Either they have not yet earned the AOL or they have hung around in Webelos for a very long time.

Sounds like heresy to me...if the BSA thought a unit certification process is needed, then they would have developed one. The mantra heard over and over again on this forum is 'just follow the BSA program' - why would OGE want to 'add to the BSA program' by creating a burdensome, time-consuming auditing process at a unit level when the BSA does not already provide such a mechanism (assuming the whole Quality Unit thing is disregarded as meaningless). Sounds like a contradiction to me - 'Just follow the program' but let's add something else to the BSA program.

Fscouter, Well, let me see. The earliest time a Webelos den would crossover would be December (6 months after completing fourth grade) in most school jurisdictions. Most Webelos and their parents want to compete one last time in their Pinewood Derby and attend their final Blue & Gold as the 'graduating webelos class'. Since most B&Gs are held in February, boy scout troops rarely see a crossover den before that time. Consequently, troops plan their years accordingly going to great lengths to develop a solid first year program for the anticipated crossovers. In December, that program is in full force with the previous crossover group and starting a new group can place additional stress on resources that many troops cannot easily accomodate(in our Troop we have four guides and two ASMs working with our first year program which includes 16 crossovers - adding another group could double the boy/manpower needed which is simply not possible). EagleinKy offers some further explanation on the other thread on this poster's initial question. In addition, most people would agree that you want to get a brand new boy scout camping as soon as possible. A December crossover would put the youngest scouts in a position of camping during very cold weather (that those of us not living in California must endure) which many new scouts are not prepared to do because of equipment limitations (brand new parents/scouts should not be expected to run out and buy a zero-degree bag their first month of boy scouts) or because of a brand new parent's anxiety about little Johnny sleeping outside in frigid temperatures. As a result, many troops plan 'new scout campouts' dedicated to the first year camper for the spring, when the weather is warmer, to coincide with the joining of the crossovers, and to put the troop focus on the new scouts to get them off to a great start. We do have boys joining throughout the year and we weave them into our first year program, but the number is manageable. Taking on large crossover numbers at several different times of the year would be a challenge that would likely result in a inordinate amount of focus on new scouts, at the possible detriment to the overall program for scouts of all ages and abilities. I have an open mind and would look to your vast experience in this matter to tell me what our troop (and every other one that I know) is doing wrong.

Are you looking for real patches or just pictures of patches for your 'magazine'?

OGE - Our fully stocked closet of experienced 'Class A's' is available to any scout, especially those who cannot afford one. There is no reason that a scout should go uniformless in our troop. For a troop without a uniform exchange, create one. At a minimum there should be some used shirts floating around to outfit a scout with at least a shirt, unless it is a brand new troop. If it is a brand new troop, then it will be a process that will take some time until fully uniformed. In a truly desperate charity case and prior to our emphasis on the uniform exchange, our scoutmaster staff presented a scout with a uniform as a gift on his earning second class.

Once you are registered as a boy scout, you can work on any merit badge you want. There is no rule that says you have to be first class first. In our troop, a scout has typically earned 3-7 merit badges before he is first class, sometimes a lot more. I can't believe that your council would be interfering in your troop's operation to such an extent. This information is coming from someone else who is making up their own rules.

Scouts (and adults) are expected to wear their Class A's to troop meetings, courts of honor, at BORs (with sash), to service projects (unless it will involve a lot of dirt and mud), and on daytrips. For campouts, they are required to bring their Class A with them to wear if we are going 'out in public'. Class A's are not required 'in camp' unless otherwise specified. Everyone is in Class A's for our Sunday morning services at camp. The 'enforcement' is generally just a private word of encouragement.

I know many of the boy scout troops out there have custom neckerchiefs. We get ours from Eastern Emblem Mfg. www.easternemblem.com They have done nice work in the past, pretty quick on turnaround and the cost averages about $6.50 per embroidered piece for bulk orders. We are about to do a reorder, but I am curious as to other vendors out there and your experience with them. Where do you get your custom neckerchiefs from? Prices? Quality?

Scout may register as a boy scout if has earned the Arrow of Light award (or turn 11 years old or complete 5th grade). Earliest that AOL can be earned is six months after completing the fourth grade (or 6 months after turning 10). If the scout completed the fourth grade last summer then there would be no problem with his crossing over with the rest of the den assuming the AOL is earned. If not, then he would have to wait until he meets the joining requirements. I would caution against crossing over too soon - most troops are not in position to accept crossovers until February (at B&G's) or Spring. Also, if there is another Webelos den you want to coordinate with them so it doesn't look like you are blowing out early and leaving them behind. There is something to be said for just savoring your last few months of cub scouting before moving onto boy scouts.

Scout may register as a boy scout if has earned the Arrow of Light award (or turn 11 years old or complete 5th grade). Earliest that AOL can be earned is six months after completing the fourth grade (or 6 months after turning 10). If the scout completed the fourth grade last summer then there would be no problem with his crossing over with the rest of the den assuming the AOL is earned. If not, then he would have to wait until he meets the joining requirements. I would caution against crossing over too soon - most troops are not in position to accept crossovers until February (at B&G's) or Spring. Also, if there is another Webelos den you want to coordinate with them so it doesn't look like you are blowing out early and leaving them behind. There is something to be said for just savoring your last few months of cub scouting before moving onto boy scouts.

Don't forget to bring the French Fries to share!

Please look for trails that are handicap accessible - you will find them. Talk with the boy's parents, they may already know of some or of other places that are cool destinations for all that are accessible. The hike does not have to necessarily be through the woods - it could be an historical trail on sidewalks and roads. It is important that the challenged scout feels a part of the group and for the other boys to recognize the limits that a disability can create.

see link http://www.faqs.org/faqs/scouting/worldwide/part1/section-7.html Scout Promise France (La Promesse Scoute/The Scout Promise of the Guides et Scouts d'Europe, in French, with English translation) Sur mon honneur, avec la grce de Dieu, je m'engage servir de mon mieux Dieu, l'glise, ma patrie et l'Europe, aider mon prochain en toutes circonstances, observer la loi scoute. [On my honor, with the grace of God, I promise to do my best to serve God, the Church, my country and Europe, to help my neighbor in all circumstances, to keep the Scout Law.] Scout Law France (La Loi Scoute/The Scout Law of the Guides et Scouts d'Europe, in French, with English translation) 1. Le scout met son honneur mriter confiance. 2. Le scout est loyal son pays, ses parents, ses chefs et ses subordonns. 3. Le scout est fait pour servir et sauver son prochain. 4. Le scout est l'ami de tous et le frre de tout autre scout. 5. Le scout est courtois et chevaleresque. 6. Le scout voit dans la nature l'uvre de Dieu : il aime les plantes et les animaux. 7. Le scout obit sans rplique et ne fait rien moiti. 8. Le scout est matre de soi : il sourit et chante dans les difficults. 9. Le scout est conome et prend soin du bien d'autrui. 10. Le scout est pur dans ses penses, ses paroles et ses actes. 1. A scout wears his honor to deserve confidence. 2. A scout is faithful to his country, his parents, his leaders and his subordinates. 3. A scout exists to serve and to save his neighbor. 4. A scout is a friend to all and a brother to all other scouts. 5. A scout is polite and chivalrous. 6. A scout sees in nature God's handiwork: he likes plants and animals. 7. A scout obeys without retort and does nothing by half. 8. A scout is master of himself: he smiles and sings in difficulties. 9. A scout is thrifty and takes care of the welfare of others. 10. A scout is pure in his thoughts, his words and his actions.

It is my opinion that most outgoing leaders do try and recruit their replacement. Typically, a committed leader will try and groom their replacement over a year or two in order to ensure a smooth transition and future success fo the unit. It is not their job to do this (it is the committees and charter organizations role), yet most CM grow such an attachment to the pack (in some cases seeing it as an extension of themself) that they want to see their work continued by someone they trust.

The boys should get the awards as they earn them (e.g., at the next available pack meeting). No one should space them out so as not to create unreasonable expectations or offend others who may be lagging. While the CM may not prefer giving out too many awards at one time, what can he/she expect when a pack meeting is skipped for a month. It is certainly not necessary to bring the boy up to the front 16 different times for each award, bring him up once to present him with all the awards he has earned. That will take all of 30 seconds (2 minutes for your den max). To make it easy, pre-attach the boy's pins and belt loops to a piece of decorative cardboard (fleur de lis cutout) so they are all handed over at one time and no one is up there fumbling around for the pins. If the CM has a problem with that, then something is definitely wrong. If he/she refuses, you should offer to do the award presentation for your den.

While everyone would like for you to be a white knight (except of course for your wife and yourself), do not allow it to happen unless you are 100% committed. You stepping up will meet the immediate short-term need (interim CM for the next year) but will do little to establish a solid foundation for future pack leadership. I would suggest a mandatory parent meeting be held in early January so that everyone is aware of the dire situation and a framework for new leadership can be flushed out (of course, this should have happened a year ago). To make this hit home, consider not having the current CM, CMA and CC attend, so folks can see that they are gone and can contemplate the question..."what are we going to do now?" Your position as the experienced den leader could be as a facilitator of this meeting, but make it clear that you are a 'short-timer' as well and it is essential that the adult leader recruiting start with the parents of the younger ranks. Consider inviting your unit commissioner as well, who may be able to offer some insight and assistance.

Gungho, If you want to enjoy the scouting program and have your son benefit from it, then you need to ratchet it back several notches. While I admire your 'gungho' attitude, after only three months in the program it appears that all you see are the problems of everyone else. Relax and be patient...all good things come to those who wait. If not for you, then for your son's sake. Since it appears you are already fed up with your pack and have quit, I would suggest you take the next several months off and assess your ability to work with others (inspite of their imperfections) to figure out if scouting can be a positive experience for your family.

Two wrongs don't make anything right. The ATDL was a little off in his/her remarks with what appeared to be in the spirit of attempting to assume some leadership (albeit, possibly misdirected) of the den. By comparison, I think your remarks were very off showing uncalled for rudeness, and certainly counter to that which we are trying to teach our children through scouting. As far as your insult at fotoscout's posting, what are you looking for from your post...people to agree with you? Don't ask for an opinion unless you are willing to hear them. If I sent the e-mail that you sent to the ATDL, I would be too embarassed to share it with the fine folks on this forum, let alone ask them if it was appropriate.

I have a 15-year old scout that has just finished his eagle project and is now talking about going on to work on significant conservation projects for the Hornaday medal (bronze or silver). Does anyone have any wisdom or experience you can share above and beyond the information I find on the official website? http://www.scouting.org/awards/hornaday/index.html

I was pretty much in the same situation, large den with a couple of behavior problems. In the end, you can only do so much to influence their behavior when you have them for only an hour or so a week. We did the self-made den rule thing but it petered out after a couple of months as we all got tired of reviewing the same rules and infractions again and again. The consequences could not be made too severe and so it really had very little bite. I to tried a talking feather, but again it just didn't last. I am sure others have had more success, it just didn't work for our den. In the end, it was a matter of adjusting my attitude and realizing that the den would never look like those pictures you see in all the scouting literature. Just like your own kid, choose the battles that matter and let the rest go. I have had some success in playing to their strengths, for example: For Class Clown - give him a couple of minutes at the beginning of each den meeting to 'be on stage' and loosen up the crowd with his funniness. It may be that he expends his energies and uses up his 'good material' in a constructive way and he has nothing left for the rest of the meeting. For Me First - who is very smart, but me first with tendency to purposely do bad things. Make him your special helper (just between you and him) because he is so smart.

Thanks to all for sharing. I appreciate the different ideas. I think we will explore the wonderful world of rebar.

Fotoscout offers good suggestions. However, sometimes the parent's attendance does not help the situation. I have worked with many parents that do not see the same flaws in their childrens' behavior that others see. You may see a child acting up and misbehaving, but the parent may see a charming boy with enthusiasm and humor. Typically, the apple does not fall far from the tree. Sometimes, the parents will get in a snoot when you discipline their child over behavior that they find perfectly acceptable and allow to occur at home all the time. It sounds like the two are just craving attention. Ignore the bad behavior completely and lavishly praise their good behavior and they will eventually come around, at least for the hour a week that they spend with you. Good luck.

I would be shocked if a BSA publication said an adult should not wear their uniform to a scout meeting/event. The best way to teach young scouts to wear their uniform with pride is for the adults to set the example. While its been a while since Tiger Cubs, I would suspect that the Tiger Cub sweatshirt is not a popular item because of its limited use. Assuming one child, it is only worn for about 9 months until crossover when it is usually permanently retired.

I don't think "Pride" is the feeling. For me, I think it is "Humility". I am humbled by being selected by those that know me best, humbled by the tremendous dedication of the scouts and scouters that worked so hard to ensure the Ordeal experience is memorable, humbled by the fellowship found at workdays and other events, humbled by the high ideals and traditions of the OA, humbled that so many have blazed the trail before me and I have been given the opportunity to blaze it for those who follow, humbled by the calling to unselfish servanthood to make this world a better place for all people.

Wow...just informed that our Troop will be featured in Scouting magazine (in 2006) for a service project we have come to be known for. Any other units out there with experience in getting press in one of the national publications? What can we expect? Did you make any attempt to leverage the publicity locally?