SemperParatus

Jesus rode into Jerusalem on an equus asinus. Let's can Pedro too! Someone, somewhere must surely be offended at the religious connotation of the use of such a noble steed (or the backhanded slap at Spanish-speaking peoples for using one of their common names as a moniker for an a**).

Thank you. Your post has made my day and put a smile on my face. Knowing that there is such dedicated scouting leaders as yourself in an area of such devastation and turmoil is inspiring.

Desperate times call for desperate measures, and I like your ideas of having a scaled back meeting schedule until some normalcy returns to your area.

Maybe also consider:

1. Sharing the load with another pack in the area that is likely experiencing the same things you are.

2. Reaching out to the community to get leaders (without children in the pack) and former scouts (or current boy scouts) who may have time to give your pack.

God bless you for keeping scouting going in spite of the severe challenges you must face.

"So how do you get rid (for lack of a better term) of an ineffectual leader? Is it akin to a corporate vote-of-no-confidence? Or can the pack committee members just tell the COR they want new leaders? Do you just go to that person and suggest they step down? Or are you stuck with a leader until they decide to move on?"

As far as I know, the COR/CO is the only one that can remove a CC (BSA can revoke membership but that is rare) and they can do so for any reason (including no reason).

If a solid majority of the pack leadership has legitimate grievances about the CC's performance then you should present them to the COR for possible action. The COR is free to do whatever he or she decides, including ignoring your grievances, removing the CC, removing you as a pack leader, or anything less drastic. Typically, it becomes an ugly affair for a group to force the removal of a volunteer from such a leadership position. You can try a personal, diplomatic approach which may or may not work, depending on the stubbornness of the leader to hold on to the position.

Beyond the reference of "he said/she said", it is not clear if this CC has done anything that warrants removal, with the possible exception of helping to create a divided leadership corp that hampers delivery of the scouting program.

Care to share the juicy details...we love the gossip.

Any chance that you could stay and the 'CM' can go

If I followed all of this, the Assistant Cubmaster has (i) relieved a Cubmaster of her duties, (ii) assumed the roll of the CC during a vacuum in leadership and (iii) made a mess of the Pack's finances. From your story, she comes across as overbearing, underhanded, undertrained, and not a good leader for either the adults or boys. You are doing the right thing in getting other people involved as CC and Treasurer asap. The new CC will have to deal with the future problems that I suspect this 'CM' will create.

Please do not feel any guilt as you move along. You have done your best to get the pack straightened out.

I will most definitely add him, his family and your troop to my prayers.

Words cannot express my sadness at such news.

Yes. I am part of the 3% that would support a uniform made of papyrus.

Well at least you picked a short name.

I wonder if that is why twoallbeefpattiesspecialsaucelettucecheesepicklesonionsonasesameseebun never really posted very often.

I'm with LB...elections will not solve your problems and may very well exacerbate them.

The adults need to learn to get along with each other and that can only come from a change of heart and a dedication to the ideals of scouting. I would have two suggestions for you to help begin to build a sense of teamwork and common respect among the committee members...(1) schedule a COPE/teambuilding event for the committee. It will get the committee laughing (again) and learning to work with and depend on each other that will carryover far into the future, (2) open each committee meeting with prayer to ask for God's help in having each committee member respect one another and be open to what each has to contribute to better serve the boys in your charge.

http://members.aol.com/Suzannehen/SizeConv.htm

"Ever wonder why bad things happen to good people?"

...and why good things happen to bad (sinful) people like us.

...from Rich Mullins...

It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

Faith without works baby

It just ain't happenin'

One is your left hand, one is your right

It'll take two strong arms to hold on tight

Some folks cut off their nose just to spite their face

I think you need some works to show for your alleged faith

Well there's a difference you know

'tween having faith and playing make believe

One will make you grow the other one just make you sleep

Talk about it

But I really think you oughtta take a leap off of the ship

Before you claim to walk on water

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing

It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

Faith comes from God and every word that He breathes

He lets you take it to your heart so you can give it hands and feet

It's gotta be active if it's gonna be alive

You gotta put it into practice

Otherwise....

It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

Faith without works, baby, it just ain't happenin'

One is your right hand, one is your left

It's your light, your guide, your life and your breath

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing

It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

Faith without works, like a song you can't sing

It's about as useless as a screen door on a submarine

...saw it last night, on Festivus Eve.

Give to The Human Fund!

"Do you typically ask scouts questions about what they would like to see changed as part of your BoRs, and if so, what sorts of responses do you typically get?"

That is a very typical question during our Troop's boards. The standard answer is, "nothing - everything's good", which all the adults know is not necessarily true (there are always improvements that can be made). Now, that answer could be exactly what the boy thinks, or just a lazy response. So, some board members try and draw out the answer a little more with more pointed discussions - all the trips have been worthwhile? happy with leader election process? etc.

Your son has a very valid point and should be prepared to bring it up at the board of review to discuss with them (whether he is asked the question or not). I am not of the opinion that this is 'hazing', but it does seem like a backwards way of setting up and an attempt to 'create' adversity for no apparent reason. Count me in the non-adversity crowd - IMO leaving 10-11 year old boys to their own devices to either 'get it or not' flies in the face of about a half-dozen points of the Scout Law.

Just out of curiosity, is take-down conducted in a reverse manner?

ES316,

There is only one way to prove your story to this crowd...how do you make a Shirley Temple?

I ask the moderators to change the inflammatory title of this thread.

gwd,

No derision intended...just another case of words getting in the way.

I will freely admit that I have not studied all of the religions of the world, past and/or present. To be honest, I haven't studied any others except for some courses I took during college.

In my mind, studying religions to try and figure out which is 'right' or 'makes sense' or 'works for me' is an unnecessary intellectual pursuit, that will only leave you grasping for more answers. I am a Christ follower for one primary reason...He was dead and buried and then He was alive again, a fact that was witnessed by thousands of people around Jerusalem some two thousand years ago. These eyewitnesses threw away centuries of cherished religious beliefs and traditions to follow Him, because they saw that which cannot be. They were persecuted and killed because they could not deny that which they knew to be true. Some may choose to pass it all off as a fictional story, a hoax, a misquote...yet when it is combined with the centuries of prophecies of Jesus' coming and his one-of-a-kind DNA match to those prophecies, His unworldly teachings and miracles, His own well-documented claims about Himself, and the personal sense that their is something beyond this world that is more beautiful and true, His story simply appears irrefutably true to me.

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

I know of one Scouter that always wore the olive tie - to troop meetings, on camping trips, while backpacking. He was strange in other ways too.

gwd,

We are all spiritual beings having but a brief human experience. What makes you think that our God of second chances would not have provided for those brothers and sisters that have preceded us through the ages with the opportunity to accept Jesus as savior?

"He was with God in the beginning. Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it. There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John. He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe."

(This message has been edited by SemperParatus)

If you are going to have a Christmas Party, then a celebration of Jesus Christ should be the focus.

If you are going to have a Holiday Party, then a celebration of the different 'holidays' should be the focus. Santa, reindeers, gifts, yule logs, lights, menorahs, kinaras, kikombe cha umojas are all welcome...anything goes.

If you are going to just have a party for fun, then call it a Party.

There is no rule prohibiting your working at such an establishment.

I would not be so quick to base your decision on a 10-minute tip experience just before last call. Are there documented studies that gays are better tippers than straights? Have you spoken with the other bartenders as to their tips? Did your girlfriends fuel the crowd for you, as part of the joke?

I wouldn't do it, but then again I don't drink.

I'd go with....PONG.

Respect...as in holding each other in esteem as a fellow human and child of God - not in whether or not we agree with another's words, thoughts or actions. I don't think it is possible to love if this broader concept of respect is lacking. R7, Jesus died for the Pharisees and Sadducees and you and me, all the same.

Whether you regard him as Lord or merely a great teacher, Jesus calls you to respect (and love) everyone, even when they offend you, disrespect you, or cause you far worse harm. I can't think of anything more difficult than that...or more liberating of the human spirit.

I've said this before, and I am sure I will say it again...

The current Council-structure is archaic, producing substantial waste throughout the system. Council staffs of 25+ folks managing a budget of only a couple million dollars makes absolutely no sense in today's world of high tech web-based communications, marketing, reporting and financial management. Replicating this inefficiency several hundred times over throughout the system results in exponentially poor financial performance. The whole business side of the BSA house is screaming for consolidation of the Council structure into Regional Centers that offer 24/7 call center support for members, full on-line distribution channels for information and merchandise, and an overhead structure that makes far more sense. As the business aspect of scouting is transitioned to a more 'impersonal' (albeit more efficient, professional and less costly) structure, the program side would benefit from a greater percentage of available resources that could drive attractive program initiatives and property improvements that can actually fuel membership recruitment and retention, with the resultant increase in fees and ancillary revenues. The local support of units w/should continue to be carried on by the mass of dedicated volunteer scouters who have always been the bulwark of the program, and who can best provide the 'personal/high touch' service that unit leaders have come to expect and will need to grow their units.

Until such measures are taken, scout properties will continue to be put up for sale to finance a highly inefficient and archaic business model. Why not change the business model (just like practically every other successful business has done over the past ten years of the information age), rather than sell off appreciating hard assets to support a fiscally inefficient system.

Absent an unprecedented surge in new members, something will need to be done sooner or later. Selling camp properties does not fix the financial problems that council's face, it only provides temporary relief to prop up an organization with a highly inefficient cost-structure.

from today's local paper...

Boy Scouts council opens woodland to hunters

For the first time since Harry S. Truman was president, hunters are taking their weapons into a 1,700-acre section of woodland just outside the little town of Dublin in search of deer.

The Baltimore Area Council of the Boy Scouts of America has opened its Broad Creek Memorial Scout Reservation in northeastern Harford County to hunters in an attempt to control an exploding deer population.

"It's the first time since 1948 that hunting has been allowed," said Reed Blom, director of support services for the Boy Scouts council. "Neighbors have been pleading with us to do something about the deer population."

The deer have been damaging small trees on the property and neighboring farmers' crops, Blom said.

After deciding to open the campground to hunting, the council sent letters to eight local hunting clubs, inviting them to bid for the rights to the property.

He said the council met with representatives of the clubs to explain the bidding and the ground rules, which included a 10-person limit for a hunting outing.

"We limited it because we didn't want people running all over the property," Blom said.

The campground - bordered roughly by Whiteford Road, Castleton Road, Peach Orchard Road, Susquehanna Hall Road, Flintstone Road and Paddrick Road - surrounds a 50-acre lake and draws about 4,500 Scouts each week during the summer.

"We don't want to wipe out the deer population," he said. "We only want to control it."

Karina Blizzard, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Natural Resources, said each hunter could kill as many as six antlered deer and 30 antlerless deer during the hunting season, which runs from Sept. 15 to the end of January.

She said the rules require that two female deer must be taken before a second male is pursued.

Blom declined to identify the club that was awarded hunting rights to the property or the value of its winning bid.

"That's corporate business," he said.

He disclosed that the winning club did not necessarily submit the highest bid. There were other factors besides money, he said.

"We asked the groups what they could bring to the property, if they could help us with programs," he said.

He said the winning group agreed to put new roofs on two buildings and do other work on the property.

Rules established by the Boy Scouts prohibit hunting on weekends. There are also "blackout days," such as the Friday after Thanksgiving, when no hunting is allowed.

Blom said hunters also must follow DNR hunting regulations, which establish seasons for bow hunting and for shotguns. No rifle hunting is allowed. Blizzard said deer hunting with rifles is prohibited in the area because it is too close to population centers. Rifle bullets travel farther than the slugs used in shotguns, she said.

She said that the muzzleloader season also applies to the Boy Scouts camp property.

The senior ranger at the campground has received only two complaints about the hunting, Blom said.

"We have received a lot more compliments from people living in the area," he said.

It has not been determined whether hunting will be allowed on the property next year. It will depend on the size of the deer population and the amount of damage they do, Blom said.