ScoutPerson

Funny how this topic just came up as Im dealing with that same issue, we just got back from summer camp and last night was our weekly meeting. I discussed it with the PLC and last night I informed everyone that phone calls are NOT allowed during camping trips period. Calling home has never really been allowed but the rule has been relaxed. What weve found out, is over the last year, cell phones and calling cards are common place with calling cards being our biggest problem.

Parents are giving their kids calling cards and saying call anytime and this is starting to be a problem. Now, in our troop we had a little incident with one boy calling home and I see it as a time bomb waiting to explode. Also, there was another incident with another troop in camp as well. In our troop I had a 16yr old boy call his girlfriend and he got a dear john call. This happened Wednesday night and his attitude went right in the toilet. What even made matters worse was he was the SPL so the whole troop suffered.

What happened, in another troop, a boy with a calling card was calling home and making up stories. It is what I call the electronic version of Hello Mother, Hello Father; you know the song where the kid hates camp so hes telling his parents all kinds of things in a letter. Well, today that can happen instantly over the phone and the kids can leave messages electronically. The parent was one of those parents that believes their kid is always right so, after a few beers, he drives to camp and punches out one of the leaders and camp calls the cops and what a mess.

So, last night, I said NO calls home. If you give your kid a calling card it will be taken and returned after the trip. Anyone caught calling home will be disciplined. I wasnt popular with a few parents including my wife, but I said Ive discussed it with the PLC and if you dont like it then Im sorry but the PLC and I have agreed on the rule. Im not going to deal with kids calling home and have problems like the other troop had yet alone homesickness or the dear john call that happened to us.

So for me, its not just homesickness, its a time bomb of potentially anything. A lot of kids, especially the first year campers hate camp the first several days from the food to the tent, showers, etc. and theyll call and say anything to get their parents to take them home. Some parents respond others dont. But, not only are you dealing with homesickness, you have kids calling their friends spending hours on the phone which keeps them from doing other activities; calling boyfriend to girlfriend issues etc. Prior to phone cards, kids calling home made it short and sweat as it cost a lot. But, now with pagers, cell phones, calling cards etc. kids can call more readily and talk for hours. I noticed kids in other troops on the phone for over an hour, not just one day but on several days.

Now, my wife totally disagrees with me and says they should be allowed to call. Fine, but the SM is the one that has to deal with it during the camping trip and I refuse to expose myself to that. Someday, when theres a new SM, they can work with the PLC and change it. Im refusing to deal with the potential problem.

Thanks.

We allow them during the drive only and only if the driver allows them. Having CD players on is better than having them argue etc. and our drives are sometimes long. After we get their, they must stay in the vehicle.

I started a new troop three years ago with 4 youths from running a troop with over 50. Had the same issue, I did what BRAZZIN suggests and keep changing as the troop grew and the kids increased. I focused on making the campouts a blast as they would say while working in youth leadership. I even changed the campout leader each day as activities changed. Going on a campout which was a blast with being in charge of something was a big deal to the scouts. I had parents call me after the campout telling me that their 11yr old has done nothing but talk about how much fun he had and how one day he was in charge of cleaning the latrine, or making bunks, or cooking. Many remark they cannot even get them to that at home.

Teach the kids they run the program, make it fun, and be a kid yourself. My CC says he has to go on all the campouts because hes the only adult there as Im the biggest kid. In my tenure of scouting Ive only seen parents causing problems, sure you have a kid that acts up, but usually youre in a battle with the parent too. I would like to suggest do NOT take any adult thats not trained but I know finding adults for some is always an issue. But, I try to only have myself and 3 other adults as a maximum. All four of us are WB trained, ones an Eagle Scout (30 yrs ago), members of the OA, my CC has a Ph.D. in scouting and is our DC, and we all work as a team. Take 30 kids camping with two adults and youre forced to use youth leadership and thats what I do. Ive had 70 on a camping trip with the only adults being myself and my CC (or as he would say he was the only adult) and you know what it was a blast. NO issues because actually I had 10 additional leaders, you got it SPL, ASPL, and the PLs. It works and works real well.

Good luck

Also, forgot to mention that even though we mostly do family style dining we still do other types too because it isnt always easy to setup the scout kitchen. This is usually the first campout of the year after crossover which is when we do foil dinners by patrols kids coming in from the Cub Pack love it and they get their Fireman Chip also. Patrol leaders coordinate it and they make them in patrols cooking over an open fire. The kids really like this as we cook eggs in a bag, boil water in a cup, etc. Its fun for the adults too as I really like the foil dinners. My favorite is boneless chicken, potatoes, onions, carrots, and stuffing with at little gravy. The only rule is it has to be a foil dinner and I try to keep them away from hotdogs, but occasionally I get a youth with a hotdog foil dinner.

We also do a lot of backpacking and we use a patrol method where every kid has his own food. Other than the foil dinner campout, my wife still always buys the food. Again, this is just because she saves a lot of money by purchasing in bulk at Sams Club.

Actually, as I think about this, we actually use all of the types that everyone has mentioned thats what makes it fun. As I look at it, were on a 2-3 yr rotation cycle with each camping trip being different; the only thing I wont do is go back to patrol boxes and separate cooking equipment, especially since I dont have them anymore.

The success of running a good troop again is letting the scouts do it. We make every campout different from the last and you can only camp two years at one place or do that activity twice. The scouts then have to choice something different. Summer camp is the same way but we rotate in 5 years cycles so the earliest youll be back at that camp is in another 5 years. I do our council camp once every 10 years. By the time the cubs join the troop theyve been at council camp at least 3 years in a row. We also have OA and other activities at council camp too, so the kids arent really excited about going there. Especially when you ask do you want to go to summer camp at council this year or go to summer camp in Colorado, or Kentucky, Gettysburg, Utah, etc.?. Council camp usually drops to the bottom of the list.

Break it up and keep it exciting, weve done chili cook-offs by patrols and individual chili cook-offs too. When we use the troop scout kitchen and family style we occasional use themes like Mexican, Italian, German, etc. This also helps keep the meals from turning into hamburgers and hotdogs. Weve deep fried turkeys and fried chicken wings (the adults handle the hot grease). Weve got Dutch Ovens and cook that way too, which as I think of it we havent used those in a while, time to make a suggestion to the SPL.

I think one of the keys is to not get into a rut. If you get a real fun campout and menu that the kids always look forward to that when it is done dont over do it. If it becomes to routine, Ive noticed the kids dropout or wont go as they say been there done that. I have one campout activity I havent done in over two years and now only small % of the troop did it. These kids brag about it and the new kids say I cannot wait to we do that trip so I can do that. Summer camp is the same way. I only have a couple of scouts that went to Kentucky for summer camp a few years back and they are always saying to the younger kids how great that trip was.

This is something I love to talk about. For over the last three years Ive had the fastest growth rate in council and have won their Build a Troop award for the last two years. Youll find plenty of help with the scout office, school night etc. but here are some additional ideas:

1. I budget yearly dollars for recruiting:

a>. Each scout that recruits a boy gets $5.00 in McDonald gift certificates after their recruit joins. Works really well with the 11-12 yr. old scouts as they seem to like McDonalds.

b>. Every A they get on their report card they get a $1.00 gift certificate at McDonalds. Kids with no As can get one if they make improvement. Ive had kids go from Cs to As to just get the certificate. Then parents talk to other parents and before you know it youve got momentum and need lots of certificates :-).

c>. Do a scout night at the school and advertise it in the paper. I do this with a coupon that if used entitles you to signup for $1.00. Do this in Oct and registration is prorated and its fairly cheap and tie it close to your popcorn sale and take a percentage of sales. We take 5% for the troop, with this approach we succeed by volume.

d>. Run a recruiting theme for a month; take every kid that recruits to a Saturday movie after a month.

e>. Every youth that got another youth to join got a $50 US savings bond for college. This actually costs you $25.00 but it can be done.

f>. Ive also tied time limits to rewards; your friend joins and is active for 6 months you get 45% on popcorn instead of 30%.

2. Invite a friend that wants to join scouting on a trip and the friend goes free. If they join you get one free campout.

3. Create a cool class-b shirt that rocks. Kids wear ours to school all together on a certain day. I didnt even do this; they did it just because they thought it would be cool.

4. Create a cool leather jacket for scouting; I use a WWII bomber jacket. The jacket is only available to 1st class scouts and above (they pay for it too) but they want it and it represents something theyve earned.

5. Let them run the program. They run it and stick to it. No matter how goofy they make things, sit back at let them run it. Your kids are your best recruiters.

6. Challenge the kids to grow the troop, let them try their ideas.

7. Ive got a boat that they love to tube behind (also have other parents with boats too). I hold a special camping trip for only the kids that had new members join. They pay the $15.00 just like any other camping trip, but we water ski, tube, and camp on the beach. The only way they can go is to have recruited someone since the last boat trip.

Ive done several approaches which have been mentioned here which all work. But now I have the kids plan the menu prior to the outing. Steak, chicken, pop-tarts, etc. whatever they like as long as its balanced. My wife then asks for volunteers to join her shopping, usually after everyones gone once or twice she goes herself as they have their requirements completed, usually this is about through each year. When there are no volunteers she goes herself which by then shes ready to do alone and enjoys shopping as she does other shopping too. But, when the kids go she only shops for the troop.

I did use to make each patrol do it individually but that started costing more and really just started making other issues to deal with. She works with the youths and stops at several places along the way to Sams Club (which every parent does not have a membership too) getting the best price possible on the items needed. In the past, some parents would shop at the 7-11 etc. As many have pointed out on this website the adults are often more of a problem then the scouts.

She does a good job along with MB counseling and teaching them how to properly manage a budget and shop etc. The patrol method was fun to watch as a youth returned with chips and soda and junk food for the weekend, but it just got to be expensive. We charge $15 for every campout and there are no limits on what you can eat. We eat good and many eat better on campouts then they do at home. Every campout runs in the hole and the difference comes from the general fund.

We also have done patrol cooking and had patrol boxes and everyone needed mess kits etc. This worked, but started to take on a never ending battle of getting the patrols to cleanup etc. Often too much time was wasted doing dishes etc. and the older kids and some adults started turning it into a contest of always out doing each other. And yes, they started cheating like bringing or spending more, the adults started bring crystal mess kits, cloth napkins etc. so we went to troop cooking as a group with paper plates, cups, etc. and run the cooking as a troop dinning hall just like summer camp. A patrol, or members of different patrols all report to the scout kitchen for each meal and they cook it and we eat family style.

If its bad, its bad for all and Ill tell you Ive eaten many crunchy eggs. But its a level playing field. Also, since they cook it and do kitchen cleanup the bacon has been removed from the breakfast menu ever try cleaning up greasy equipment from bacon in a rustic camp area? One or two of those and the kids quickly learn to take it off the menu. BBQ Chicken was one on the menu too, but once they learned that required 4 hours of watching and cooking instead of playing and having fun etc. it too went to the bottom of the list. Along with steak, each year the new scouts start with lets have steak. Ok, we do as it comes up occasionally. Ever have a steak cooked by an 11 yr old? Mine is usually chewy, and requires a chainsaw to cut and this too becomes low on the list. But it does make for fun campfire talk as we all talk about the time Joe made the steak that nobody could eat, and they say but do you remember the home-fries Billy made where he dumped in all that chilly powder and you needed a fire extinguisher to eat them, etc. etc.

My advice is to allow the kids to do it and adopt whats best for your unit. Keep the adults out and make every adult get trained as soon as possible.

At our next meeting, after the campout, the SPL makes all the kids fill-out a quick survey of the camping trip rating several key areas on a scale of 1 to 10. The meals are rated and an open discussion is held on what worked, what didnt, and what would have made the trip better. The youths also rate the adults and are asked if any adult should be asked to NOT continue or are not allowed to go again (maybe just that type of activity like an adult is to out of shape to ride the bike etc). This is a critical part of our program because the adults are in a probation period when they first join and are required to get trained, during this time we weed out problem adults (we are just not too quick in signing up every adult that comes along). Surprisingly, theyre assessment of adults sometimes sounds similarly to the adults assessment of the scouts. I handle this and it has caused some uncomfortable moments, but I always tell them they run the program and Ive had to tell parents that theyre no longer allowed to go on any more campouts, it has happened. But, normally I recommend we send them to additional training, talk to them, workout a corrective plan etc. It works and its actually fun and adds value. In one case my ASM was Mr. Grumpy on the outing, bad week at work etc. etc. The kids complained, they will not fire someone after they get of probation and trained as those types get weeded out prior; but the kids gave Mr. Grumpy latrine duty the next campout to improve his attitude. He made a joke out of it and my next campout almost required a bus because every kid went to see Mr. Grumpy clean the latrine which was supervised by the kids. He was a good sport about it even when they took the white glove approach to inspecting his work.

Best of luck and let the kids run the program.

The Troop in mention is from PA and I was involved in starting the new Troop that ScoutParents son wants to join. I personally was thrown out of the Troop with my Committee Chairman and several others when we had a disagreement within the adult leadership over 3 years ago when we had a new Father replace the old one at our Catholic Church. At this time a new COR was appointed and the new COR removed me along with anyone that disagreed with him much more details then I feel like typing and it is best summed up as a mess.

The general fund at that time had over 30k in funds with over 15k in individual scout accounts and 30-40k of fairly new equipment. We were the best troop in council and always won honor troop at summer camp; we were the Norman Rockwell of scouting. I spent over 11 months personally trying to get my council involved and they outright refused along with the charting organization as council stated it was the CO unit and they dont get involved in the internal workings of a troop. The Father refuses to this day to take any action and says he has appointed the COR and says he doesnt want to get involved in it.

My son was Life and they were starting to cheat him out of Eagle along with three of his buddies (whos parents also were fired or backed me). I finally got National BSA involved along with Governor Ridge and got several members at council fired (actually national moved them out). I was offered a charter, to shut me up and was told to move on, which has now been over 3 years ago. I hated to walk away, but thats what I did with my son and his three buddies. The membership went from 51 to 47 and at that time it looked like only 4 disgruntled parents were taking their sons and moving on. They also spun the story to everyone making people think I was the problem and Im sure that ScoutParent was just one of the many that really thought she was staying with a great troop because at that time we were the best in council. Wed done Sea Base, Philmount, Hiked Yellowstone, canoed Canada, hiked Alaska, hiked the Oregon Trail, traveled the Badlands, toured DC, summer camped someplace different each year, and had monthly campouts with it all be scheduled, planned, and run by the youths. They had lots of money and equipment and many were glad to see me go.

At the last committee meeting, of that troop before my son quit, I was promised they would transfer any boys account as we had always done for over 30yrs. Also, the committee agreed to give me 10k of the general fund to help buy equipment as my son and his 3 friends and parents could be tracked to contributing over 60% of the 30k. We were being forced to leave over 10yrs hard work which we helped built from a unit with junk equipment with less than $500.00 and they wanted to humor me and just get me to leave.

At this time I still had enough influence so they wrote the check for all 4 boys, but only had 5k of the 10k available without cashing a CD. They said they would cash the CD and pay the rest; scouts honor as I recall. Supposedly they then called an emergency meeting, sometime after that, and changed the rules stopping the additional $5,000.00 and any scout account transfers. They also tried to cancel the check they gave me but it was too late as I was at the bank when it opened and they were 15 minutes late as I was depositing the cash as they called.

Three years later, with a lot of work, Ive got nearly 100 kids active and were winning every award possible, just hiked Hawaii (Island of Kauai) and are hiking Alaska in two years. Im now running a Cub Pack, Troop, and Crew and we have the highest Eagle % rate and advancement rate in council and the lowest dropout rate. And my Crew is the only Crew with females (in council) and I had the first bronze awarded to a female in Pa. When I left that unit I was bitter, but my Committee Chairman always reminded me to focus on succeeding and that is what I've done. Theyve spent three years bad mouthing me, toilet papering my house, spray painting my fence with foul language, writing over 107 letters to council complaining, and sending me hate mail. I even had to hire a lawyer to serve several with slander charges along with having to get a restraining order on their COR.

Someone said there are no Norman Rockwell Troops, well I disagree. I had one before, and now three years later I have another. ScoutParent, along with others, were not willing to take a risk on a new unit as it is hard to believe what appeared to be such a strong unit would change that much. Also, many did not realize who did all the work for those trips and what's actually involved in running a strong unit. Ive divorced myself from being concerned about what they do but they are a unit that is struggling and will continue to struggle until their leadership changes. ScoutParent is telling you the truth and shes being nicer than I would be about it. They seem to be holding the kids back because theyre afraid that once they get Eagle theyre going to leave. Since ScoutParents son joined Ive had 2 more join this week and one boy has everything done for Eagle including the project etc.; the scoutmaster refuses to signoff on the scoutmaster conference because he doesnt think he shows enough scout spirit.

Oh, and my committee chairman is also the district commissioner now too and nobody can get them to change as they hide behind its their charter and the Father hides behind its the committees job and he wont get involved. Yes, a scoutmaster conference for any rank is at least an hour long sometimes there are several as they grill the kids on everything from Scout to the Rank theyre going for. Once signed off, the board of review is a skill drill assessment too lasting at least an hour. I hope ScoutParent gets her sons money, but the only way thats going to happen is for her to take them to court.