scoutmom0618

Not that anyone cares...lol but when I began the research for our Pack I spoke with Justin Lowe of the IRS nonporfit division about this..(He is one of the tope people there) anyway his comment was that this is wrong for all the reasons listed. he did comment that you could probably fly under the radar and never get caught but....the other thing that I have heard from other nonprofits around here and as well as from Mr. Lowe...with the economy in the shape it is in, they look for all avenues for revenue...Nonprofits don't pay taxes...there are many nonprofits getting audited because if you can catch a nonprofit making a mistake albeit small you can make them pay...Just saying...

So, I would pull out for sure if the policy was changed. By the way, I DID take my son out of public school because I wanted to make sure that the role models he had while in his formative years were the ones that I was comfortable with.

While I could pull out all of my reasons for not wanting homosexuals around my children, I won't.. However, the bottom line for me is if I don't agree with the foundations of an organization, I dont join...I find something else to join. Seems kind of crazy to me if there are so many that want an organization like BSA to have openly gay leaders why has someone not formed one instead of trying to hijack the moral views of BSA. That is what conservatives have to do such as with the frontier girls/ GSA.

Just seems to me that if people cared and were actually concerned enough about it, they would leave BSA and start their own BSA type of organization or is it just that a few people want to force thier beliefs and way of life on those who don't want to live that way? Hmm...wonder how many people would join that new type of organization? I may be wrong but I do not think it would have much of a following especially in my neck of the woods.

BoomerScout,

Due to my concern of this issue, I had to find out where your letter came from...lol The letter you mentioned seems to be part of a publication that was put out last year and here is the link...

http://www.scouting.org/filestore/financeimpact/pdf/june10.pdf

Seems National has already made a declaration of this last year...hmmm

Beavah,

I completely agree with you...beyond the legality issues..why do we keep trying to justify it?

As to the questions about the incentives...incentives work differently and are evenly distributed AND come from Trail's End...a for profit company!!! To my knowledge, and I have researched this extensively, incentives are not from BSA but from trail;s End.

here is a link. http://www.kintera.org/atf/cf/%7BE843D69F-BAF5-40AD-8006-A9A1D6BA11DC%7D/PRIVATE%20BENEFIT%20MEMO.PDF

This is an internal BSA memo from the Tax attorney at national. I actually spoke with him directly and he says that BSA does NOT support this practice. On the last page of the document it is very clear.

I know some say that fundraising would stop if this practice went away, but I think if handled right it would increase....simply because now if you have the money you don't have to fundraise...however, if the boys were depending on each other they may step up and learn that there are benefits to helping out the community of scouting!!

So, I volunteered my services at University of Scouting to teach a session called pack admin...the basics. My only guildelines really are to talk about best practices and have some discussion time.

My question is: what should I cover because there is SO much and so many directions I could go in. any ideas or suggestions.

Thanks in advance!!!

Thanks for clarifying...I guess where I confused myself was that our dens are not active during the summer...we do some Pack activities...but dens don't meet..We strat back the second week in september.

as for rushing them through, I have always wondered why people do that (in anything..sports, school, scouts, church...etc) I feel like they should get all they can and enjoy it...before they have to move on. I know I have wished many times for life to slow down (since I have gotten older lol)

I thought a requirement of AOL was to be at least 6 full months in 5th grade.

engineer,

Really? Absolutley not...had he fought, there would have been consequences! I am through with this topic...If this boy is working on Eagle he is hold enough to handle this...Did anyone even think that maybe, just maybe the Scout did not want mom and dad there?

I know a lot of teenagers and sometimes they don't want mom and dad to know the whole story and just want mom and dad to hear their side?

Anyway, I am done with this topic...I am glad those leaders were looking out for the Pack...

KC,

I noticed that some of the quotes you took, were a little out of context.

First, yes based on BSA policy, God, and my beliefs, I believe sexual misconduct is immorral.

Whether society agrees is irrelevant! We should still strive to fulfill our duty to God even in the realm of sexual morality. I am not going to argue what we think about this. If someone does not want to abide by it, then by all means noone is forcing you to be a Scout.

Second, yes you can treat as a victim but even victims have opportunity to choose what they do...

Third,

Absolutley would allow my son, at 17, to be interrogated by Scout leadership if his actions had led them there. At this age, he is almost ready to go off to college and he can not handle this situation I would be very afraid of what may happen when he get called into the deans office or principle's office! Even in Cubs, my son is held accountable!

Fourth,

Sometimes it is our words that get us into bad situations.

I feel that a lot of us are getting wound up about something that may or may not have taken place and not reading the entire context!

One more thought, if there were rumors floating around..which would be better for the young man...to be asked and given opportunity to respond or be sent to authorities??

I agree that if acusation was made, then by all means follow youth protection but if they were just rumors??? Just asking

Baden ,

I just want to say that I don't really feel this was an inquisition...In fact, I do not think that it was as bad as what it was made out to be...In one later post I read, I realized that there is some other drama in this troop and there may be a couple different groups wanting control.

I do not think anyone should be brought before a lynch mob. I do think the young man should be acountable for what he says, though!

I am glad there were 5 people in there. It was mentioned that the CC and COR were there. That way all the key players know what was said.

I completely agree with Crew21. In fact, he said things much clearer than I could. As a mom, I am very concerned about the environments that I allow my son to be in. Before, ever joining scouts we looked at policys to see if it would expose our children to things we did not want them exposed too. Sexual misconduct being one of them. All I can truly say is as a mother, I am glad the leaders talked with the young man and tried to get to the bottom of the situation.

We have heard one side of the story...and the thing that still bothers me is...no personal responsibility!! Yes, I understand that there was said to be bullying at summer camp. I understand that the first statement was made while in anger to stop bullying...and I understand that the young man admitted what, and why he said it..I also saw that he admitted it was a mistake to say it. So, why are we making such an issue about questioning the leaders?? It looks to me like this young man is on the right track of taking responsiblity and yet the adults in the situation are looking for excuses to bad behaviour.

I try to teach my children that no matter what happens, YOU do the right thing...that is not always the case, but blaming others for what I decide is NEVER the right choice.

As far as the meeting, would it even be thinkable that a meeting between them all had tried to be arranged another time, but had not been successful and the only time was during that meeting? Could it be that the adult leaders had been seeking advice and trying to get answers since June..so as to handle this effectively?

It seems like there is much more to the story that has not been told. As far as the daughter of the ASM, I would wonder how much mom actually told her or maybe she overheard some of a conversation mom was having with other leaders?? or surely she would not just try to spread gossip would she?

Another point is the Scout oath and Law...from what I have learned it does not matter if others are doing these things to us, but we are to set the example.

On my honor I will do my best

To do my duty to God and my country

and to obey the Scout Law;

To help other people at all times;

To keep myself physically strong,

mentally awake, and morally straight.

A Scout is:

Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful,

Friendly, Courteous, Kind,

Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,

Brave, Clean, Reverent

Again, I do not condone bullying but being bullied is NOT an excuse. By making a statement that he was bisexual called is morality into question. I understand that boys will be boys BUT that is not an excuse!!! If we as adults do not set the standard, how will the boys grow into young men of character? As far as all this goes, I would not want this young man in a leadership position, simply because he he does not make the best decisions when placed in difficult positions...

One more time, I will reinterate that we have only heard a lot of supposition and most information was based on reports from teenagers...

I did see where someone said I was questioning the "victim". I feel we live in a society that teaches us to be victims. Yes, he was bullied but as we all learn in Scouting...faith in God is a foundation and I believe that we can draw from that inner strength to face anything...Sometimes, we are victims but we need to learn how to handle adversity...because the world will be full of it!!

As for my statement about dishonesty, if he is not bisexual, he lied about it...and if he was he has been lying about it...Simple as that!

I think there is much more to the story and before we condemn the leaders we should think long and hard about it!!

Ok..maybe I am missing something here...A group of Scout leaders take a young man aside to discuss an issue.. From my understanding, you could not hear what was being said by anyone in the room and you are only going on what you were told as to what happened??I did not see where they asked him to leave the troop, only try to get to the bottom of a rumor that, if true, directly conflicts with Scouting...

So from my point of view, as a mom in Scouting and as a CM...First of all, scouting does NOT condone homosexuality and does not want that promoted...The rumor should be dealt with and the boy confronted...At the point where he is, while maybe his parents should have been invoved or not depends on where they have been through his scouting career...Other than that, the adults were acting on an issue that must be taken care of.

My issues would be:

The boys choosing to talk about sexuality at all...That should have been stopped!

The "victim" making the statement he was bisexual...So, how long has he been living dishonestly?? By that I mean, sleeping with guys and not telling that was who he was...Honesty is a foundation of scouting...If that is who he is or wants to be, then why not leave the organization that is against it? Don't ruin it for everyone else just because you want it your way..

When does he take responsiblity for his choices? Note, I am NOT judging his sexuality, only telling him to take responsibility and be honest about it.

Unless, I missed something I think the situation is getting more attention than those leaders caused due to the talking among all the others in the Troop. Let the leaders and the Scout family work together..If the rumors are true, he is not living to Scout ideals so the right thing would be for him to leave..If not true, then all will work out...

We are living in a society that likes to do whatever and even when it goes against the rules, we make excuses...I want my son to know that he can make his choices, BUT sometimes there are repurcussions that he may not like...So, he has to weigh it all out and see which one HE can live with and sometimes that means making hard decisions...

I think the issue of the bullying should be dealt with and if it was truly brough tto the camps attention, then that is where I would direct my discipline for ay leaders.

As far as blindsiding, I really don't see how it could have been blindsiding if all went on at the camp like was reported...To me, it is no different that a Scout saying that there is not a GOD, or self proclaiming he was an atheist..It was something that had to be addressed and I am glad that there are still some scout leaders that don't wimp out when confronting REAL issues facing the cornerstones of scouting.

I had to weigh in on this one. You see, back in Nov. I got my handicap placard and should have gotten one long before, however, I worried about crticism from people that were complete strangers who may have thought I looked fine and should not have parked there. I have RA. I have good days and bad and have a very inconsistent energy level. For example, when I arrive somewhere, I may be fine but when I leave can barely make it to the parking lot. Sometimes, I have to sit in my car for up to five minutes to make my body work enough to move. NO ONE knows the whole story of the person who parks in a handicap spot...trust me. My advice is you teach your son and others about right and wrong as well as compassion. yes, we are teaching them things at meetings but they are going to learn more from how you handle the situation. In fact, many times my kids do not even realize something like that until I point it out.

Show compassion because you have no idea, even if you think you do, what is going on with that person in that space..this I know from experience! By pointing it out once, you can bring attention to it but more than that you are involving yourself in a no win situation. For example, if you truly think this person is not a good role model then you need to pull our son out and go somewhere else.

Again, I hate to go against the consensus but there could be unseen underlying issues with this person that you may never know. So, teach your son to understand that we can not always control everything around us but that we can show a good attitude and we can make good choices, even when we see something we do not like.

sorry, for being on the opposite side. I truy understand what you mean but from someone with an invisible disability that I tell very few people about, I understand that calling attention to this can have negative effects as well.

I will add...Scoutbucks will be earned by boys regardless, only a certain percentage will go to the pack and that does not change. My question is if I take 10 boys to sale for 2 hours and we sell 100 cards...Do I sp;it the cards between the boys so that each kid gets credit for 25 or if kid a only sells 10 cards, kid b sells 5 cards, kids c sells 25, kid d sells 60 cards should I only give the kids credit for the ones they made the direct sales on? Even if kid B, was holding a sign at the road? In my situation, credit will go to the boy, just trying to figure out the most fair way to do it.

Just curious, how your packs credit sales for popcorn and scout cards when you sell as a group like at a store? Do you give credit individually to each boy or do you take the total and share among the boys?

Thanks All! This is something that I was sort of thrown into, not something I planned but something that I could not change and have to make work:) You might remember my situation from my previous posts.. It is actually inside, for whatever purpose that serves...lol Oh well, I think it will be fun, we have lots of activities planned but I want to cover all of my bases. It is proving to be a very interesting period!

One more thing, if we charge a small amount, not enough to cover all cost, is it still considered a fundraiser?

We are in the process of planning a camp in for next month at our CO. We are doing this to introduce our families to camping, since many of them have never used a tent. Some parents are asking to drop their wolves and bears off and I do not think that is OK..since only Webelos can camp as dens. Even if it is a camp in, do we still have to adhere to the family camping policy and do I need to do a permit with council?

Barry, I agree about the vision.

Last night, I kind of paraphrased what I wanted to see in addition to the typical respect, duty...etc stuff...

I wondered if you think it would make a good start to a vision for the pack...I want to see each and every boy and family learn through its experiences in our pack that 'Life is about serving others, and that serving other is FUN!' I know I need to add more but...what do you think?

Thanks all for your encouragement!! To the camping question...Honestly, they are lucky to do one a year, other than the lock ins..which is why I have been dumbfounded at the concern over it...lol

I totally beleive in delegation! haha

The thing I am concerned at now is two fold..I am trying to figure out my place in the pack since I have been told they have elected me to be interim and I will be evaluated in May by current CM. They also said that I would be expected to work and report to the committee, which is fine, although I am a little nervous that I put a lot of work into this and then they come back in August and say, Thanks, but we have found someone else. I am also a little worried that I will be too cautious because I will be worried that I have to make everyone happy and that is never possible...lol

One comment was made at the meeting made me a little nervous was that they did not care what the BSA said, it was what they wanted...lol

I am also very nervous because I will be 'taking over' as CM next week and a lot of the people are new to me!

I am trying to schedule a meeting with our DE to discuss things with him, what is expected..etc..Since our COR who is listed on our charter as our CC as well, I also want to sit down with him and find out more about what the CO expects and wants to see!

Again, at first I thought that you guys really were just being negative, but your constructive criticisms really allowed me to think through my responses and I was able to feel good about how I was composed because of your advice!! Now, I have to say I really appreciate the truth:)

Wow, the meeting ended differently than I expected. I am now on a trial basis as CM and the current CM is now ACM and will give evaluation report to committee at end of school year. Very scared! lol

I understand completely Scoutfish...lol In fact, the comment was made tonight about making sure we took baby steps in changing things...lol I did not present my goals in entiretiy or havd them out...lol After discussing a few other things, leadership was discussed. We have leaders for all the dens except Tigers for next year!! Yippee..Then it was brought up that I was interested in being CM and opened up for them to ask me questions...Wow, that was interesting. First, our COR was sick and not even there! Pretty much everyone else was clear that they were staying at den level and not interested. So, I got LOTS of questions, mainly about camping. It was even suggested that by not agreeing to go on EVERY campout with the pack as CM I was doing a diservice to the boys. I explained that it was my job as CM to delegate. The Web leader even said he did not want me to go on his trips, however it did not end. I basically told them, I would go fi my son wanted me too, other than that...I was delegating that. One did ask if I wanted the job or was just filling a need. I explained that I wanted this after seeing the need and researching...etc.. Then they asked vision and that was not questioned, I explained I wanted to get a committee functioning and delegate so the CM is not doing everything and eventually I would like to be the CC.. the asked how exactly I planned to get more volunteers..I told them it would be a case by case basis and would cross that bridge after I became CM...lol Then camping was brought up again...During the last mtg a suggestion had been to make the entire church aware of wanting a CM and asking them for one. That apparently was not done, however, there are several members of the pack who are CO members so I am sure they are aware...the suggestion was made can we still ask?

After, this last discussion I was asked to leave, so they could "talk about me and vote". I have had mixed feelings. The meeting seemed to have mixed responses to me and a couple people that had approached me were either sick or one was unavoidably detained so I am a little nervous. I have no clue when they will let me know what their decision is...However, I personally think that they will decide to ask the church first...One person even suggested hiring someone...lol Yet, they had no reason other than I would not agree to go on every camping trip for this. I have made a decision of what I will do if they postpone due to continuing to ask for a cubmaster to step up, though. Even though, I have sort of made up my mind I would love to know what ya'll would do?

Obviously, I left out an important part of my quandry. As of the end of this scouting year, we will have NO leadership!!!! They are ALL leaving!!! As for doing things, I have tried but they will not allow. For example, they needed something done. After seeing that it had not been addressed, I approached the CM and offered to take care of it. I was told that it would interfere with my desire to become CM so she approached someone else who said yes, but in the end she ended up doing it. That has happened several times. I just read something a few moments ago, disturbing on an email that I inadvertantly got. Seems that some of the current CM's friends, (who are the only others that make decisions and they have both left but are still listed as Committe Members on the recharter, decided they did not need to redo their training so she, the CM, had someone else do it for them. There have been other instances of this that I just found out! There are some very close realtionships among certain people at the top in our pack, to the exclusion of the rest of us.

I did not seek this out at first, just got tired of people complaining about how much they had to do...I have offered to help with paperwork such as permits, etc...Nope..Advancements..Nope...Budget...Nope...

The COR told me that the CO wants change so we will see how it goes...

Not far, actually depending on which part...lol As long as you do the heavy lifting, I'll do the paperwork...lol

Thanks for clearing that up! lol BTW, few in our pack now what is going on and most wonder why I have not been neamed CM. Oh yeah, I do not care if hubby camps with a bunch of girls as long as my daughter or I are there...lol but just to go set up the campsite and take care of the problems...means the ones there are not doing there job...just my opinion..lol