Penta

Shortridge: Or, to put it another way, "The bears. You promised bears!" Kids think they'll be camping in the real wilderness, where there are bears waiting to snack on them. Adults would have none of that. (Neither would the bear, but that's another matter.) So instead of heading out into the vanishing real wilderness, they camp...effectively in their backyards. Leading to "But where are the bears?" Was that way when *I* was a Cub Scout.

Eisely: It depends on what you want the leaders to know, I think. I think the current BSA program re leader training, what I know of it, is good. I spun off this thread because NJCS seemed to have in mind SMs knowing a lot more about things...Which raised some pointed questions in my mind. There's also a fact I'm coming to realize in my own life: You may not use some of the more specialized/unique skills very often. It would make sense, in those cases, to formally say "It's been so many years, go back and retrain for safety's sake!" Scouting, particularly in the outdoors...You might

Resqman: Good corrective re ARC. You're right, the "Roles and Missions" are not very similar. However, ARC is what came to mind first when I was writing. (Idly: While I could never see this happening, I do wonder: If ARC allowed disaster training or deployment for

Conundrum is exactly the word I would use, Beavah. Because it feeds into something I think everybody who cares about Scouting deals with or confronts on some level. Certainly, it comes up here enough: Getting adults to volunteer. Not so much the kids, I sense - but getting adults to step up. Scouting relies on prior skills from the adults, you say. I'll ask what needs to be asked: If that's a good thing. It definitely limits who can realistically volunteer at the unit level - How many adults do you know who were scouts, who are prior military (and had any outdoors training in that!),

Gah, you ninja'd me, Bart... My reply to "an SM needs the same skills as a parent" is: Yes, but how many *parents* have those skills? C'mon, be honest... I personally don't think many do. I really don't. I'd never suggest a "license to have kids" or a "license to parent", but do I think parents often have the sorts of skills NJCS lays out? No. Doesn't mean I don't think it wouldn't perhaps be a good thing if parents had a way to learn those kinds of knowledge, skills, and abilities. (Honestly, speaking as someone who's only babysat their younger cousins and watched relatives with the

Hit enter too early, ugh. Where was I? 2. Training: If it is to be recalled, it needs to be practiced. Training should, if you don't do "drills" like the ARC does, be recurring - meaning your "camping cert", for example, would only last 1 or 2 years before you train again. Does BSA at any level really have the ability to fully train all its volunteers in the skills they need in an effective manner? 3. Plain and simple, how do you meld all this with the ideas that: A. Scouting is delivered to the kids by volunteers - frequently parents of kids in the unit who are busy as heck? B. Scou

NJCubScouter said: "Personally I think that Scoutmasters and ASM's (leaving aside any other positions) need to be well-trained in outdoor skills AND leadership skills (and other skills such as dealing with behavior issues, how to best teach skills to boys, etc.) The two (or more) are not mutually exclusive." I promised myself I wouldn't get involved with these threads. I am not an active Scouter, my Scouting career wearing the tan uniform was brief and undistinguished, and I don't even go camping anymore. Haven't since I was a Boy Scout, actually. Take everything I say with that note of h

NJCubScouter: You raise good points. I don't know if it's dumb luck or what, re Monmouth Council in particular. (There's also a question of "Who the heck would they merge with?", now that I think about it: Culturally, Monmouth and Ocean counties exist as nearly a pair, but the distance factors make any council covering both counties, let alone any others, seem unlikely, offhand. Economically, you might bunch Monmouth in with Mercer and Northern NJ, but the cultural differences are pretty vast. Population-wise, it gets harder, because the population is pretty-well bunched up on the coast in Mon

Wow, did the original topic last even 24 hours before drifting? Count me amused. I have one query for both sides: What makes you think things would change even if local control were passed? After all, it's not a given that the LDS will leave the BSA. Setting up their own program would take years. Similarly, the Catholic Church - Yeah, I don't see the bishops pulling support from the BSA. They have a ready competitor in CYO, but I don't see CYO succeeding outside of the urban dioceses - which, amusingly enough for an organization started to serve kids in the cities, is where BSA

Raisinemright: Is it wrong for a guy of 26 to envy a bunch of Cub Scouts? The one caution I have re everybody's plans: The fingerprints. They're not bad, they're fun for the kids (which is the most important thing), but I think parents need to have it explained to them that the cards are more of a keepsake than anything else, just for the sake of truth in advertising - I think it'd be bad if the parents got a false sense of security. The rules in most areas that I'm familiar with are clear that any such fingerprints can't be kept by the police, even if the parents want that, and I'd be su

So, I'm at my local community college today, getting ready for a class (Yes, at 7:05 in the morning - class is at 8), and one of the other paralegal students (virtually all are 20+ years older than me, to explain this next) in this morning mentions how their son/grandson (I want to say grandson, but am not sure and not going to ask) is having their Eagle Court of Honor soon and how they're planning for it. So this wanders into a conversation about Scouting generally...And one of the other people in the room asks how all the bans and stuff have impacted Scouting. I winced a bit - as my info ind

I'm unfamiliar with the precise boundaries of this theme, but if you interpret it broadly: If they already have visited the local police station (which I admit would be my first choice for kids of that age), I don't know, but a police officer of any sort coming to them might be more of the same. If you're on good terms with a criminal defense lawyer, or a prosecutor, or a judge - Heck, even if you aren't, I don't think it'd hurt to just call your local county-level trial court (in NJ it's the Superior Court), get a court administrator, and ask if there are any judges (and court staff) wil

First off: Onevoice....Wow. I can't think of a harder thing for kids at that age to deal with. Sounds like you handled it masterfully. I'll get to your question in a minute. Next: Pack212...Great idea. A "bus plan" might feel extreme to some for a voluntary organization like a Scout unit (as opposed to business or government where you usually see them), but now that you mention it, it just feels *right*. There's not just picking up where things were left in the event of a loss, there's matters like "How do you tell the Scouts? *Do* you tell the Scouts?" that should be discussed and agreed

Scoutfish: It was what it was. It's been years, I can look back on it with some distance. Moose: Oh, yeah. You're in part speaking of the passage of time, something that has not gone unnoticed by me, either. 15 years ago, I don't know if special-needs kids would have been accepted in *any* troop, in my council or any others. (By accepted: Sure, they would be signed up. But *really* accepted? I never would presume the boys in any troop would accept a disabled scout, and 15 years ago, while it never happened to me, I would (in retrospect) have been totally unsurprised if there was resistan

Grudges were never my style. Nah, the only grudge I have on this account is against the square knot.

So, I'm not sure if I necessarily belong here, but I stumbled upon this site while covering the internet in curiosity (I forget about what) and seem drawn to reading it. Before I go on, though, I should introduce myself. I'm John Penta. I'm 26, from New Jersey. My scouting experience? I was a Cub Scout the whole way through, from Tiger Cubs all the way to crossing over from pack to my boy scout troop, but dropped out within 8-12 months of crossing over. My perspective on Scouting, thus, is a bit weird. I'm disabled - have been since birth (I'll elaborate if asked, but, for brevi