Ohanadad

My Webelo DL and I thought that it would be a great project to have the cubs do leather stamping (name tags, belts, etc.) Here's the problem, we (the adults) don't know how to stamp leather or have the equipment. It's hard to teach a skill that you don't know how to do yourself. I've asked the troop leadership is they know of a leatherwork MBC that I could call and they don't know of any. I've been on Youtube (not much), Google searches, etc. and haven't found much information. I even call the different military bases to see if their Arts and Crafts centers had leather stamping equipment/classes...nada. I could probababy go out and buy a leather stamping kit, but I've been putting out a lot of money buying stuff to support scouting and don't want to buy an entire stamping kit, just for a one time project. Are there any resources that are out there?

Agree with 2 Cub. Yes, 40 minutes is bad and unfortunately when I got beaded the WB SM did a long and drawn out speech which bored the heck out of my cubs. But, the one thing that the SM did that made the pain a little bearable was that she tied my tickets to how it benefited the pack (including the cubs). As many pointed out, know your audience, and with cubs, even 10 minutes could be too long.

But at the same time, for many WB is a major accomplishment in their scouting experience and shouldn't be overlooked. Many here assume that all scouter are motivated go-getters that are fully prepared to take on large scale projects. As Basements wrote, "Any Adult worth his salt should be able to complete an eagle project.....And only 7 in 18 months a piece of cake." That's like assuming that all adult leaders are Eagle scouts which is false. I've been on WB staff and seen some participants that could have taught the classes because of their past experience and many who WB was the first time they were taught concepts such as project management, importance of communication, etc. I've seen a lot of tickets that have improved units and districts that would not have happened without WB to jumpstart them. So when someone finishes their tickets, we should recognize the accomplishment. It's almost like not having an Eagle CoH. It's a major accomplishment and should be celebrated. I feel sad for Stosh getting his beads in the mail. Assuming he worked hard on his tickets, he should have a least been presented his beads. Even if you didn't want it, it would be a good message to other adults/scouts that hard work is rewarded.

My opinion, Are pack/troop meeting the place for beading ceremonies? Probably not unless you keep it around 1-5 minutes. What about RTs or Committee meetings? Maybe but keep it to 5-10 minutes. Best option? We had a WB reunion for the previous two courses. There was a mass beading (each person that got beaded had one sentence to sum up and highlight their tickets in order to keep it short). It was the perfect balance of recognition, comradely, and ceremony.

It is what it is. If beads could buy Manhatten and get people to attend RT, I'm all for it. You have to adjust to your audience. If this generation is for the bling, then you have to adjust to get them to come. Of course the big problem after that is providing a good RT that will keep them coming because no one is going to waste an hour or two for a bead.

Yup, I feel your pain. I was all set for my son to join my old pack & troop, but we decided to buy a house closer to my in-laws instead. While we tried to make it work, the back and forth commute for all the scouting activities was getting a little too much to handle. We joined a new pack and it took us awhile to get used to way they do things, but it's all good. Like the kids, you make new friend and build new memories.

I was cleaning out some old stuff and found uniform items from when my brother and I were scouts. I found the old garrison cap, the cub scout immediate recognition badge (with full set of red and yellow beads), and my brother's boy scout aluminum mess kit. I was looking at the stuff and I got to admit I prefer the older CS immediate recognition badge made of soft vinal vs. the new hard plastic one that my son has. On the other had I do not miss the old garrison cap that provided no real protection from the sun.

What are some of the older uniform parts that you miss and why?

Thanks for all the input. TVs won't work for us since we don't have a place where we meet to store it at. I don't want to lug around a 45" TV in my car every week. I I found a Optima projector on Amazon for $300 that fits all criteria I'm looking for. Not cheap, but better than the $500+ that some of the other projectors run. Only downside (other than the price) is that there's no HDMI connector. I can get the next model up that has the HDMI connector, but it's not worth the extra $50. I'm actually hoping with the holidays coming up, prices will fall a bit due to sales or clearing out of this year's models, etc.

Basement, I'm referring to how we can get those parent that sit on the sidelines involved. You volunteered so that automatically puts you in a different group despite why you did it. Recruiting new leaders is an age old problem and it seems only a few, blessed units do not have an issue of recuiting leaders. I saw a pack fold at the beginning of the school year because the CM decided to hang it up and no other parent want to volunteer to take her place. I just saw notice of another one getting ready to fold because they can't enough leaders. I'm saying that we have to appeal to how scouting can benefit them as well as their children. Facts are boys are always ready to join scouting, but without adult leaders, program will fail. I'm surprised that many non-eagles leaders that I talk to say they were in scouting, but their troop folded before they could make eagle. I just think that unless we innovate the way we go about recruiting leaders, we'll see scouting to continue to decline.

I was talking to another leader and they use a projector for pack meetings (to show pictures), committee meetings, etc. The projector belongs to the church that charters them. I would like something like that but projectors from for $200-20,000. Does anyone have on that they personally own and can recommend. My pack can't afford to buy one so if I want to get one I'm on my own. I'm looking for something that I can use in a semi darkened room for an audience of about 10-20 people.

I guess that's my point. My opinion is that the adults that are solely in it for themselves are few and far in between (Mostly, I don't see them in units, but at council level.) But we hammer in the "for the boys" all the time. It does seem like we're a bunch of dour, self-sacrificing, group of people here. Why would I stay in this group or do more than the minimum online training? Don't I already do my parental responsiblities by being there as part of the pack/troop? Now if we said that this training will not only make you better at scouting, but also at work, home, etc. we may get more people to do more than the minimums.

Also, if we keep saying "it's for the boys", when the boys age out what keeps the parents for staying active in scouting? Yes a few dedicated ones do stay, but the most I think say it was for my boys and now that there's no longer in scouting, my time is done.

I'm not saying that we shouldn't keep the focus on delivering quality programs for the scouts, but when packs/troop/crews struggle to recruit and maintain leaders, we should also examine what should we do to for the adults.

Time to pull the pin and throw the controveral gernade. Here's something that I've thought about while reading the different posts on this site. I've heard a sentiment of "Remember, we're here for the boys" or "it's for the scouts not the adults", etc. This is used as a reason to go to training, not to wear knots/beads, settle disputes, etc. I'm going to propose why can't the scouting experience be for the adults as well? Maybe it's better stated, why do we hide the fact that scouting is for adults as well.

I don't think anyone can say that what he/she did in scouting was for the scouts only and he/she did not benefit from it. I went thought all the BSA training and use it outside of scouting all the time. In training the scouts on citizenship, camping, fishing, morse code, etc., I learned things and became a better person (I'm also amaze my coworkers on the daily trival questions). Why do we shun away from that fact? You never hear that on this site or the BSA site, etc. It's like it's a bad thing for adults to benefit or have a good time. I've read a number of posters that will flame people if they say something positive about having a good time at WB or anything else, unless it's in the context of "having a good time with the scouts." It's like the benefits we as adults receive from scouting is a dirty little secret.

I changed the way I talk to parent when I speak to them about being a leader. In addition to telling them about how great it would be for the boys to have him/her as a leader or how much the boys needed him/her, I'll add in how the training BSA will give them will help them out in work and how they'll get alot out of it. I'm talking socially, continuing learning, the "warm fuzzies", etc. A lot of intangible things that we as adults don't get a lot of nowdays. I will admit that at this point of my life, I don't get too much from BSA training (though I do get key nuggets of info each time I go), but what really keeps me going is that I meet great people and make fast friends because we have common interests and we're not competing for a prize or promotion where there can only be one. And yes, I push the knots and awards. I our daily lives, when was the last time you received an award for doing a good job? If you're lucky, it was recently. If you're like a lot of us, work is something that considers the fact you got a job as a just reward. Having that one knot or piece of paper that says "Good Job" is the little pat on the back that we all need sometimes.

I think we shortchange ourselves and the program by limiting scouting to just the kids. Scouting is a way of life and should be relished by all. If we want strong programs the key is to not do it just for the boys, but to get the parents to believe in, and live the scouting life. Boys may get distracted, but if the parents buy in, the boys will come back.

Gunny,

That site rocks! I took a look at it and came up with all sorts of ideas.

Since we moved, I now get to camp in very moderate temps year round. As such, I saw an article on a Camping quilt made by Thermarest that is suppose to be smaller and lighter than a lightweight sleeping bag. It does so my taking advantage of not having to go around you since it snaps to the sleeping pad that give you the isulation below. A lot of hammack campers use quilts. The Thermarest quilt is $50 and since a scout is thrifty, I was wondering if it would be better use use a poncho liner instead? Anyone have experience with a quilt?

I'm coming into this discussion late so excuse me if I rehash points already made. Here's my thoughts:

- At our first meeting, we asked the new parents how many had previous scouting experience...Zero out of 20. Not good on passing on scouting culture/skills, etc.

- Most parents here are totally into sports (baseball/football/soccer). Many of the boys have started micro T-ball at age 4 and/or soccer at age 3. Parents have already been trained to bring kids to practice and immediately pull out there smart phone and do something else. Hard to get them to volunteer to become a registered leader.

- I've notice two basic types of leaders (yes, I'm generalizing). There's the gung-ho, motivated leaders who are great and the ones who end up staying the SM for 30 years. The eager ones will willing take on all the training opportunities offered and more. The challenge there is that after a while the BSA offered courses become boring and repetitative. If you're an avid outdoors person, what will IOLS/OWLS really be able to teach you? Yes, they may become as one poster called the good ole boys who complain about how the newbies don't know anything. But at the same time, they are the continuity and a wealth of knowledge.

Then there are the ones that volunteer because they were asked to be a den leader/ASM/committee member. They are the ones that couldn't say no or come up with a good excuse. They aren't comfortable in the outdoors for whatever reason. It's hard to get them to do the training, because some of them are really busy with other kids, work, life, etc. On-line YPT and fast start maybe the only training they can do. It's hard to attend WB when you're a single parent with multiple kids. Yet, some of these leaders are the only thing keeping a pack/troop going. Without these leaders, that one motivated leader is going to burn out quickly. The key is to get those leaders the right training to so aren't dangerous and have the skills and knowlege to deliver a program that will keep the scouts interested in scouting. If we're lucky we can get them to do more than the minimun training and maybe get them to become the other type of leader.

Bottom line, training needs to address both types of leaders which is extremely difficult (just ask a public school teacher with a class that includes kids that can't read as well as really smart kids).

When I was visiting DC, one of the Smithsonian Museums was hosting a "Family Scout Day." The Girl Scout side had a station where the kids could make wristlets with beads, etc. On the Boy Scout side, each kid got a PWD kit and there was a station where kids could decorate the car with pens, cut out art from magazines, etc. The kits were not the standard block of wood, but more of a tapered, triangle piece of wood so you didn't really need to shape the cars. I think there were the old dragster kits (do they still sell those?) Anyway, that was a blast since you didn't have the competitive dads making artwork-quality, wind-tunnel tested PWD cars, but instead had the kids who took a few minutes to dress up their cars, inserted the wheels, and started racing. I thought this would be a great way to do PWD since it really was the kids that did the work and had fun. Unfortunately, since we also race at the council level (it's a big thing here) and other leaders pointed out that the scouts don't get to use tools, I was never able to get the pack to do this.

Here's the follow up to the situation. I talked to my CC (yes, it's the troop CC). He understands the whole MB-scout relationship and said he was just passing on what he received from the parent. He said the parent didn't want to get into an akward relationship with me so he made the CC promise not to reveal his/her identity which the CC is sticking to. When I asked what was the main issue, it seems that the parent believes I'm asking for more that what the requirement in the MB book asks for and I'm making it impossible for the scout to pass. I do not make up requirements, but I think it may be that I expect legible, thought out products (e.g. skill teaching plan for the communication MB, etc.) While I do ask for correct spelling and grammer, I'm not an english teacher and will only point it out if it's so bad, I can't understand what the scout has written. I told the CC that without having to be able to know who is complaining, it puts all of us in a bad situation. He said he understands and it was his mistake by making the promise that he won't do in the future. My wife said this is probably be a good time to take a break and not take on anymore scouts. With the holidays just around the corner, she's probably right. If there was any good that came out of this, I had a really deep conversation with the CC about conflict management. He thought that by keeping the parent's identity was important for the parent to trust him. Instead it complicated the whole issue since he could not bring us together to work this issue out. As he said, that wasn't covered in CC handbook and we're learning while we go. He was going circle back with the parent to see if they wanted to sit down with me to discuss the issue. I'll be surprised if the parent takes him up on the offer.

I just a call from my CC that either a parent or parents (who want to remain ananymous) complained that I was too hard on the boys on their MB requirements. He said that the parent said that the boy(s) were thinking of quiting because of it (really? I'm not the only MB counselor around here so I'm sure that was added for effect). I admit that I'm a stickler on the requirements and I expect something that at least a little time was put into completing. My thought that this isn't cub scouts and "best effort" doesn't cut it anymore and the boy needs to meet the requirement. If it needs work, I'll talk to the boy and point out what needs to be improved. Most do the fix and he's good to go.

I guess what really frustrates me is that these "adults" didn't have consideration to talk to me about this and went to the CC instead. Should I try to find out who it is and go and talk to the parent(s) or just let it go and chalk it up to experience? Maybe I've just been lucky, but in all my years, this was the first time I got blindsided. Most times, if we have issues, they come out and we worked to resolve it. Not this passive-aggressive stuff. I got to admit that it's stuff like this that sometimes makes me want to just say I've done my time and go back to spending my weekends watching TV. I heard there's a great game called football that's one right now.

What I got out from all of this is that it's a new environment we live in. The Catholic Church, Penn State, and BSA, are finding out that it's easier for stories to break into the national media and get blastered all over. Lesson for today, don't try to hide things to "protect the organization's image." In the end when it all comes out, the organization's image gets trashed because they knew about something and didn't do the right thing.

One way to knock out YPT for the group is to do a YPT session at the end of the unit committee meeting. DVDs are avalible from council/district. Reward those that have already done the online training and/or is current by allowing them to leave early (at least earlier than the rest). I've seen some units make all of their leaders stay for the training regardless if they are current or not, just to be sure everyone is good on YPT and as a refresher.

Thanks for all the input. A lot of good ideas. I wish we had a district website to post things (it's in works). I've eliminated making handouts because we never have the right amount, either too many or too few. I've resorted to scanning and emailing handouts, flyers, my presentation slides, etc. I wish my district had a dedicated screen and projector so I would have to borrow from friends and work all the time (on the district wish list). I got mixed feelings about the crafts part. Yes, I could make just one, but the craft making is an opportunity to get the attendees off their rumps and make something that they can show back at their packs. We'll see, maybe I can squeeze some funds from the DE.

Good idea. I was a ACM and a DL when I did my tickets. The ones that I did for my den was much easier because I controlled the den and didn't have to do the "Mother may I" thing. For the ones for the pack, it was different since I had to run it past the CM and CC. It took forever to get the CC to sign off as the ticket being completed (hint, try not to rely on other people to determine when your ticket is complete). Don't worry about benefiting your pack. After you finish your tickets, you can take what you learned at WB as well as lessons from doing your tickets and apply them to your pack's projects (and troops/crew/team).

Here are my thoughts. Tickets are personal so what someone else comes up with may not work for you. That's why you talk individually about each ticket one on one with your TG and not as a patrol with the TG. Tickets are a way to apply what you've learned at WB. For example, if my ticket idea was to lose 20 lbs (which I don't recommend because it's really hard to lose 20 lbs), if I could show how it fits with my vision based on the 20 questions I had to answer pre-course, show what's the lasting outcome and how it benefited my pack, and used the lessons taught at WB, my TG would have approved it. I remember going back to my TG at least 3-4 times for the first couple of tickets before I figured out what to write down. I would honestly say that my tickets seemed easy, but I used a lot of project planning concepts (the dreaded WBS) so in the end, I worked my scouting rump off in finishing them. But you get back what you put it. I worked hard on my tickets (which my products are still being used by my pack) and have become comfortable taking on projects for scouting and at work. Don't shortchange yourself and try to get away easy. Do the work and get the most benefit from WB.

I used to be a Buffalo...

Does your district have a budget for RTs? One of the problems is that any materials we use for RTs (e.g. craft supplies, handout printing costs, etc.) basically comes out of my pocket. I thought of assigning packs tasks (e.g. demonstrate how to make a PWD slide), but we don't have a great turnout for RT and having packs to bring in supplies just seems like a way to drive off the few packs that do attend. Are there other ideas out there?

The other advantage I like in breaking the course into two weekends is that you get a chance to go back home and work on your tickets. When I went through, I wanted to talk to my Committee Chair, Cubmaster, etc. to refine my tickets and get the OK from them that I could do it. By the time we went to the second weekend, I had all of my tickets approved and could enjoy the camping with the patrol. Additionally, we were able to work on our project (printing out pictures, gather info, etc.) which would have been difficult or impossible at the campsite.

The flip side is you always have the few that go home and completely forget about WB and tickets. You see them furiously working the night of day 5 trying to get their tickets approved instead of enjoying the time. All in all, it's six of one and half dozen of the other.

Getting back to the OP...I went to a CoH and the Troop was wearing optional patches (e.g. 50 miler, etc.) on the back of their merit badge sash. I didn't want to tell them it reminded me of the Girl Scout sash and all their patchs on the sash. One of my leaders in the pack wanted to buy Boy Scout sashes so the boys would have a place to display their patches. She didn't like the red vest idea. I think I was able to talk her out of it as the MB sash is a Boy Scout uniform item and not for Cub Scouts.

I'm going to talk to my son's Den Leader of having the Web den make a "trophy skin" out of brown felt material and tree branches for the frame. With the cubs getting ready to transition, it would be a great place for them to display their CS ranks and other stuff.

I love these parents who don't want to put in the time/do the work/go to camp/etc. yet want everything for their boys. Sometime, I feel like giving them the same talk I have to get my son, "You have a choice and choices have consequences. You need to understand what the are the consequences for each decision you make." Sadly, I think kids accept these things better than parents.