nldscout

packsaddle you said

"It isn't my duty to be one of the BSA membership police."

Then who's job is it? If a female age 13 tried to join, would you allow that because your not the membership police?

What about a registered sex offender? A convicted Felon?

The question being which rules do we enforce, only those we happen to like.

Except Pint, those are rules for you scouts across the other side of the pond, they don't apply her

Here the rule is simple, Avowed Homosexuals need not apply.

So if a scout tells you he is gay and means it, then its your obligation to shake his hand and then show him the door, Period.

If you don't want to follow the rules, then maybe some leaders should go too.

This youth and his parents did this on purpose. The timing was planned and I bet was managed by his mother who is trying to make a statement.

I look forward to the day when people that disagree with BSA membership standards just go elsewhere and join some other group.

Wouldn't that be nice!

If you want to play in the BSA sandbox, you have to play by BSA rules!

Well BSA24 if you don't like the policy, your welcome to join some other youth group that doesn't have the policy. Otherwise, it is what it is and its not changing anytime soon.

Actually, the american people have spoken on gay rights repeatedly. 30 something states have voted on gay marriage and every time its voted down. Why cannot people accept the it.

So Eamonn and others,

What about the local convicted child molester, murderer, or other convicted felon? They have kids, do we allow them because they may be a parent?

The main issue here is that there is a rule, no gay leaders period. BSA has said thats the rule and they are not changing.

If you don't like the rule, you don't have to stay. Move on to some other youth group, find another calling, leave scouting alone. Quit trying to disrupt things for those who choose to follow the rules.

I am at a loss to understand why people won't accept the rules. You don't see anyone complaining about other people that cannot be members.

What is missing here is the whole truthful, unslanted story. We may never know what really happened.

What is missing here is the whole truthful, unslanted story. We may never know what really happened.

What is missing here is the whole truthful, unslanted story. We may never know what really happened.

Another reason for putting everything possible in there is, if its not then you have to ask the court to ammend the filing. Sometimes your going to get a big fat "NO". Which means you cannot raise that arguement ever again.

So attorney's put in anything possible to cover a future base's especially where there is so much unknown at this point.

OGE,

In this case its the 7 wise men in Albany who will deceide if this is art or not.

Funny, that this should appear on the news at this time. Last saturday morning at about 230 in the morning I got called out to do an arraignment on a Felony Drunk Driver, when I asked what she did for a living(part of bail determination) she stated she was a dancer in a gentlemans club that is in the same town as the one in the story. She was a very nice lady except for the fact she blew .17 and had her 2 kids in the car.

Well according to google there are 4 states with issues on the ballot for November. They are Maine, Maryland, Minnesota, and Washington.

I guess its just a matter of waiting to see what the voters have to say this time around.

Horizon

The problem with a poll is who paid for it to be done. If you look at polls done by the Family Marriage groups they say the opposite.

Polls can be and are bent and twisted by the person paying for it. The real poll will be at the ballot box, where it has been ovious what the polls are.

The answer to that question is a definate yes.

It is obvious inspite of biased studies that say otherwise, the american people will not vote to allow gay marriage.

Flipping a HMMWV is not that difficult. We lose several every year on base where I work. Usually due to someone hotdogging it.

There is nothing new there. The council's policy is dated in 2001, so nothing has changed. They haven't done anything different, so I don't know what the uproar is here.

Don't ask has always been the policy.

Boy am I disappointed. Somehow a discussion on gays got hijacked into one about religion. What a shame.

The camping requirement is waiverable and frequently is for District nominations.

Adult leaders in council and district positions: The lodge

adviser, district chairmen, council president, or members

of the professional staff may nominate adults to the

lodge adult selection committee. All requirements set

forth for adult leaders in units must be fulfilled, with the

exception of the camping requirements, which may be

waived at the discretion of the lodge adviser and Scout

executive.

Based on conversation with a person on national staff that I have known for yours NSC will in all probablity quietly change its policy and make a similar statement like other councils who tried to break ranks in the past.

It will happen without fanfare and just quietly disappear off the radar.

Beav,

Your wasting your breath. The gay community and its PC inclusive supporters won't be happy until they have destroyed the BSA. No matter what you say only one viewpoint matters, thiers.

"Our boys have the right and ability to speak up and lobby the PLC to change if something isn't going right in a troop"

There is nothing against advocating for a change, however once the PLC or in this case the BSA says, This is the final decision, then thats the final decision. You either live with it or move on.

In your example if a PL advocated for Troop cooked meals instead of in the patrols and the PLC said nope we are staying with Patrols then I would expect the PL to salute and moveout and run his patrol, not keep bringing the same tired subject up every day.

So in this case, BSA says they looked at the issue, that they are not going to change and thats that. So you as a member should deceide, well if thats the rules of the BSA either I should follow them as long as they are not illegal or maybe I should join another group.

So if they ever did, God forbid, implement a local option and you move and the local troop says we won't accept gays, then what do you do? Disrupt them, or move on to another group?

Did the driver say she couldn't take your son? It sounds like you deceided that it was to close for him to sit. You admit there was 3 seat belt so that was fine. Maybe he would have liked sitting between 2 girls. Young men do like that ya know. Its not like they have girl cooties ya know.

As far as gear, you put some on peoples lap, you make do. We have taken trips wher the boys were sandwiched in because we came up a driver short. They usually don't mind, but may gripe a bit, so big deal.

"Luckily per nldscout no one has come through who by dress and actions is unquestionably gay.. Let's hope it stays that way.. "

I am not sure where you get that statement from. I have seen gay people in court, but like I said. It doesn't matter.

If your a Criminal then your a Criminal. You break the law, expect to get sanctioned in some form of another.

I don't have to like you in order to deceide your guilt or innocence. Fact is I don't like 99% of the people that appear in front of me. I am not there to be your friend.

So you being gay is immaterial.

"A Scout follows the rules of his family, school, and troop. He obeys the laws of his community and country. If he thinks these rules and laws are unfair, he tries to have them changed in an orderly manner rather than disobeying them."

Try and change them all you want, be my guest, however BSA has said they are not changing. So that leaves you 2 choice, stay within the present rules or leave. Do not disrupt the program because you don't like the rules.

If the day comes and BSA changes its rule, then I and a lot of other souters will have to deceide if we can live with the new rules or if we will just leave.

"Not to belabor the point, but how would you deal with a gay person charged in a domestic violence case?"

Why do you think its different than a husband abusing his wife? Or a wife hiitting her husband or BF? You hit siomeone and you get arrested. Like I said a Criminal is a Criminal.

"How would you respond to gay jurors who request to be excused because they have to take care of their sick partner?"

Who knows, guess we will have to wait till it happens.

"And what about a traffic case in which a person's same-sex partner was injured?"

See above, if your a Criminal your a Criminal.

"More to the point for this discussion, would you tell a young Scout who came out to you that he was an abomination? "

This one is easy, you need to find a new group to belong to.

Like I said, BSA is a private organization and they have rules. If you want to be a member, then you should learn to follow the rules. You can try and change the rules, but BSA has no thanks we will keep the rules we have.

So now you have to deceide, will you stay knowing the rules will not change? Or will you continue to disrupt the scouts for your own satisfaction??