BartHumphries

A dome tent is easier to play a good round of cards in during a campout, since there's enough headroom for multiple scouts to sit in a circle with a flashlight/lantern strapped to the ceiling while "stuck" inside the tents because it's pouring rain outside. It's also easier to stand up and get dressed in the tent. Plastic/nylon is more waterproof than any treated canvas could be. The dome tents are far lighter than canvas tents and if you stuff your pack inside the tent whenever you make camp then you don't even have to bother staking the dome tent down (it's not going to fly away with 30-60 pounds of gear inside), which means you can just leave the stakes at home. The dome tents even take up less space in a pack and fold up better. It's all possible because we have modern-day materials and ways of making things that people throughout the past few millenia would have literally given their teeth to have had.

So, why did the Army say it? Why not three or "salute" or something else?

Last night a scout asked me why he was supposed to say "2" after the pledge of allegiance to let us know when to salute. I had to admit that I had no idea. Why do we?

Do your scouts even know about the Committee, who its members are and what they do? I didn't, when I was a scout. I am changing that situation now, though.

Pointing any type of firearm (including paintball, dye or lasers)

acco40, all squares are quadrilaterals but not all quadrilaterals are squares -- some quadrilaterals are instead rectangles or trapezoids. All firearms are prohibited, including firearms which have a laser embedded in them, or which have a laser as the primary component of the firearm. That doesn't mean that all lasers are firearms, or that all lasers of any type are prohibited, in my opinion. Perhaps we'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.

Firearms may not be pointed at another person, even if those firearms are "fake" and "shoot" completely harmless "stuff", such as paintball guns, laser guns, etc. But there's nothing wrong with lasers in and of themselves and I don't see any reason why you couldn't use them to play tag, as long as they patently aren't "firearms".

I love Wikipedia -- I have almost 4k mainspace edits. It is not, however, the be-all end-all ultimate authority to turn to if one wishes a discussion arbitrated. It is a great starting point, though. As I've said, laser tag usually involves lasers made up to look like firearms but that's not necessarily true in all cases. I have personally seen and used laser tag sets with lasers which do not resemble firearms. I regret that I do not remember who manufactured them and that I do not have a reference or website ready to toss out, but I have seen and used them. What is the common factor is that participants wear some sort of harness which registers a successful tag when you're painted by a laser (whatever the physical housing for that laser might be crafted to look like).

Its NOT laser tag then. Laser tag IS running around shooting 'laser guns' at each others, with harnesses on to know that you made a hit.

No, laser tag is playing tag with lasers instead of your hands. Look at the words "laser" "tag" -- tag with lasers. It doesn't necessarily have to involve "guns" (it usually does but it doesn't have to). Laser tag is tag but played from a distance instead of running up and smacking someone.

"I am assuming that the BSA does not have a problem with scouts running around waving flashlights at each other."

That's what I'm saying. As long as you're not "shooting guns at each other", then laser tag should be ok, right? Besides boxy lasers, "pen" ones like http://cgi.ebay.com/2-Pet-LED-Light-Laser-Pointer-Toy-Cat-Dog-Puppy-Kitten-/360314546543?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e46ba96f would seem to be ok too -- they can hardly be called "firearms".

Yes, you can do laser tag with "a square flashlight-type box that couldn't possibly be confused for a "firearm", as long as - per the Guide to Safe Scouting - "participants shoot at targets that are neither living nor human representations"...

ScoutNut, I'm not seeing that second sentence in the Guide to Safe Scouting at http://www.scouting.org/filestore/pdf/34416.pdf The pdf document tells me that the word "living" doesn't appear in the document anywhere. The word "human" only appears in the sentence "Although rabies in humans is rare in the United States..."

Thanks, I'm looking up those activities in the G2SS now and no, it wasn't pointed out in the ASM/SM specific training that I went through. You're saying that laser tag is prohibited because of the "no firearms pointed at each other" section of the G2SS? What about laser tag that doesn't use a "firearm" but instead has a square flashlight-type box that couldn't possibly be confused for a "firearm"? One that looks like a http://www.gbfans.com/equipment/ghost-trap/ That's ok? Sheesh, you all had me worried about nothing.

You mean the training updates at the National Website that just barely came out this month? You're saying that even if I'd read the full rules I wouldn't have known about that until just now? No wonder my Council didn't seem to know anything about that when I emailed them.

Nobody knows everything but everyone is an expert in something, right? The Tenderfoot/Second Class/First Class stuff is stuff that I have down cold. I did have to learn what EDGE is for the new requirement, but as I explained in another thread it's basically the "tell someone about what you're doing, do it while they watch, watch them do it, offer suggestions or helpful criticism as needed" that I've already been doing. Looking at the current Tenderfoot/Second Class/First Class requirements at:

http://usscouts.org/advance/boyscout/bsrank2.asp

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/bsrank3.asp

http://usscouts.org/usscouts/advance/boyscout/bsrank4.asp

As an Eagle Scout, as a pioneering/wilderness survival/etc. merit badge counselor at a scout camp where I taught those things every week to perhaps hundreds of boys, as a current adult leader who's teaching those things, it is my opinion that I absolutely know those things. While I can be and have been surprised by other things in Scouting, I know the IOLS stuff.

About 3/4 of a century before Baden-Powell published Scouting for Boys, the LDS church was preaching boy-led "patrols". Sure, the vernacular (the names for things) is different between the BSA and the LDS church, but both still generally emphasize boy-led groups acting within a specified framework.

In researching that, I found the following links.

Requirements for the award itself, including a color picture of the patch:

http://www.fws.gov/heinz/pdf/Heinz%20Refuge%20Scouting%20Award.pdf

How visiting a similar site can help fulfill various Scouting requirements (probably holds true for the Heinz Refuge as well):

http://www.fws.gov/northeast/patuxent/scout_pl_boy_scout.html

Boy Scout/Venture recognition certificates:

http://www.fws.gov/educators/educators.html

I've been thinking of getting a copy of these rules myself. Lazer tag is prohibited? That was a shocker. Scratch that activity off next year's calendar.

As an Eagle Scout, who was a merit badge councilor at a scout camp, and is continuing to teach scouts as an adult volunteer, I really didn't see the point in having to take IOLS -- I know that material backwards and forwards. I signed up for that class in the beginning of September, then in the beginning of October the council rescheduled it from a week ago today to a week from today (and my troop already has a campout scheduled for that weekend). The next available IOLS in any district in the council (that I could attend with my schedule) will be in either January or February. I was ecstatic to learn that I could apply to my district training chair to test out of it. Sure, it might not happen until January or February anyway, but I feel better thinking that something is in motion.

I wonder what else I'll learn if I order a copy of the rules then actually sit down and read the whole thing.

When you chat with people on the committee, just lay out the facts, why you're worried. You don't need to tell them why it's important to fix those things, just what's broken. The Troop Committee should be overseeing the Scoutmaster. If the Scoutmaster is taking time off, well sometimes people have to do that, but he should be making sure that somebody (an Assistant Scoutmaster, perhaps) is doing something and things are getting done while he's gone. If it's been months and nothing's really happening, then perhaps the Troop Committee or Chartered Organization Representative need to start thinking about a different Scoutmaster. Sometimes people get upset if they think that you're exploring what's wrong just because you want to take control, but if the troop is really that dysfunctional then perhaps it needs new leaders and since you already have ideas about what needs to be fixed...

Speaking of your ideas, try not to point out a problem without also offering a suggestion that might fix it. Two boys fought. Ok, how would you stop them, what's the carrot, what's the stick? Some 14 and 15 year olds aren't at First Class yet? How would you correct that -- perhaps those boys could have an extra meeting on a separate night to "catch up". Perhaps more attention needs to be paid to the basics at the regular meetings. Every troop is different they say, so the "correct" solution will likely vary for your troop. Also, try not to go too far above a person's head, try talking to the person closest to the problem, in this case that'd probably be the Scoutmaster. Maybe he just needs more help, perhaps the Troop Committee isn't doing all the things that they should be doing and he's feeling overwhelmed from having everything dumped on his shoulders. Then again, maybe it's him, I don't know your situation so I wouldn't know.

11-year old boys can do a lot -- when I was that age, I never did a 60-mile bike trip, but I did do 20-30 miles regularly with two friends to get to the Village and back (who, unfortunately, never did join the Scout troop, but that's another story). I live in a pretty hilly environment and looking back on it I'm really astonished at the hills I managed to laboriously ride up in a BMX one speed -- there's no way I'd attempt that today without a multi-speed bike to make the hill easier. That being said, 11-year olds are young boys and can't be expected to keep up 15 and 16-year olds -- it's rare to see an elementary/middle school kid who can keep up with high school seniors (I was pretty active, but I don't think I could have kept up with boys 5-years older than me). Scouts that young really need their own outdoor activities or they need "races" broken up into different heats or something to differentiate between the boys of different ages.

Good luck, let us know how it goes. (This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

If you don't hear anything back from an email, you might want to mail them a letter.

Why wouldn't you register them as adult scouters? Sure, get some new blood in. At the first meeting, tell them there's some paperwork and that afterward you'll give them a nifty shoulder patch to put on the uniform they'll be buying because surely they're going to want to visit a camporee or something during the year to get a first hand look at what's happening and how things are going and they don't want to stick out like a sore thumb. The second time they meet, spend 20-30 minutes and run them through Youth Protection, so that they will know what to be looking for when they go on a fun trip to a camporee or something during the year, because not everyone else is following the rules (really, it's just to get them trained, but you want to sugarcoat it so that they will want to get trained).

His signature is on Eagle certificates from the White House. I just wrote them and requested one about a month ago for a boy in my troop and it came about two weeks after I dropped my letter in the post office.

http://www.harborfreight.com/45-watt-solar-panel-kit-90599.html

http://www.echolink.org/

Now, with a list of repeater stations in your area, with a General license so you can bounce the signal off the atmosphere for longer distance, if you're willing to take along 30 pounds of gear, you too can play World of Warcraft from the top of Mount Whitney or, well, from any almost anywhere.

Edit: not that I actually do that.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

If you really want something troop/patrol specific, something on the uniform that your group and only your group has, take a look at neckerchiefs. They can really be whatever you want them to be -- whatever color, they can have whatever image you want on them, like a patrol symbol, BSA symbol, etc. It's whatever you all vote on. Some groups vote on "no" neckerchiefs (invisible neckerchiefs), some have elaborate designs, some wear the regular ones from the store. That's the place, though, where your unit can do its own individual thing (if you all want to). Just don't embarrass the rest of us, ok?

Look at the html address. store.lds.org/... It's part of the main LDS website and more is offered than just books -- that's not "just an LDS book site". It's the real deal. The Scouting Handbook that I linked to is the only LDS Scouting Handbook (last updated in 1997) and as I said earlier it's free precisely because it's so short -- just over 5 pages long.

BadenP, perhaps you'd like to spin off a new thread and talk about what the differences are, as you understand them, between LDS Scout troops and non-LDS Scout troops. It can be easy to misunderstand other religions.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

The LDS church does not publish its own scouting handbooks. There is a single 8.5x11 booklet that's about 10 pages long that goes into how to setup a scouting program when you don't already have one. It explains what a scoutmaster is, etc. As has been listed in this thread, that "handbook" also states that non-members can, if the Bishop chooses, "be called" (serve) as adult leaders. As I've said before, there are a number of people in a ward, so a ward generally doesn't recruit outside people since there are usually numbers of people who are already interested in being adult leaders. That being said, multiple people have related in this thread that they know (or are in) an LDS troop that has a non-LDS adult leader.

I didn't want someone to get the wrong idea that the LDS church publishes anything even halfway close in size to the regular BSA Scouting handbook -- far from it.

The LDS church's "agenda" isn't that different from the Scouting agenda -- to make the boys into morale men who know how to stand on their own two feet, plan ahead, and generally just be good guys. The LDS church does promote that young men go on missions -- that young men volunteer two years of their life and go serve. I've seen other churches promote similar things, that young men should volunteer a year in the Peace Corps or go a mission for that church. Personally, I don't see how such an extended and continuous personal "service project" (whatever organization you're doing it for, Peace Corps or your church or whatever) wouldn't make a young man into a better man.

Let me humbly suggest, BadenP, you don't really understand how the LDS scouting program is supposed to operate. If you'd like to know more, the LDS church distribution website has always offered the Scouting handbook free of charge (since it only weighs a couple ounces or so):

http://store.lds.org/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/Product3_10705_10551_21143_-1__195656

I encourage you to get it and read it, to see for yourself what the LDS-view of Scouting really is.

"Just so it's clear, during the procession or recession, the U.S. Flag needs to be to the right (in relation to its direction of movement) of any other flag. This can be in the center aisle or by some other path. It does not need to be to the audience's right (i.e. it does not need to pass to the right of everyone in the room)."

Or the US flag can be in front of another flag, either way is correct. You're right, though, it doesn't have to pass on the audience's right while advancing to the front.(This message has been edited by BartHumphries)

I have the color guard advance up near the audience, with the US flag in front, then stop. The US flag is brought forward, then the State/whatever flag is brought forward. Thus, the US flag is always in front and the whole right/left thing doesn't matter except for making sure the flags are planted where they're supposed to be.

Did he sign up as an adult Scouter so that a background check was done on him? Did he take the online Youth Protection training? If his son was still in, I think only the latter is necessary, but if his son isn't in the pack anymore than I believe both are now necessary?

That's awesome, jet526! I can't believe they were scoring based on having the G2SS out. Are people's memories that bad that they need constant reminding of what's inside it (or was this the first time that most people had cracked it open and thus they really needed to learn what was actually inside)?

I'm glad you all were rewarded on what (in my opinion, at least) really matters to a campsite. I mean, most of our camping is done in areas where unless we pack in branches ourselves we can't go build gates and we certainly wouldn't have a tour permit out in the open -- that goes in the pack pocket with the first aid kit and the other essential things that you have to have but you hope and pray you'll never have to use.