Mrw1

A lot of times I would recommend getting trained and trying to work to improve the troop.

In this case, I see shopping for another troop as being the only option to give your son a full scouting experience, without a great deal of frustration on both your parts.

Look to see what other troops are availbale in the area and go visit a few. Even if you are driving to the next town every week, finding a functional troop should be well worth the effort.

You missed the Hocking Hills in Ohio. The state park is gorgeous and the zip line tour should thrill any scout aged kid.

We always had the BOYS vote on those types of awards as they were less likely to look at perfect workmanship and more at which cars really were most colorful or "coolest" or whatever the prize categories were.

That pretty effectively eliminated dad-made cars from the running. We also ran a family race after the boys were done racing so the dad's and sibs could make a car and race without taking away from the boys making their own cars.

For recharter and for advancement, the data is exported from Troopmaster and then uploaded to ScoutNet.

The advantage here is that you have entered and checked the data before it gets sent and so you know it is correct in the ScoutNet database. This will save you trouble in getting errors corrected in Advancement records through Council (which is super frustrating). The other thing it does is ensure the ScoutNet records are up to date as you may or may not have the Council data entry person be up to date with entries.

And when you turn in an Eagle app and they need to check dates to ensure the boy has earned the proper ranks and merit badges, you know all the data is present in ScoutNet with the same dates used on the app.

I generally would give a boy the name of a counselor other than his own parent because most of our parent counselor want to avoid the possibility of being too hard or tooo easy on their own kid.

That being said, if the boy's father is gone for a couple months at a time for work AND is registered as an MBC for sailing, I would gladly encourage some time spent together on scouting skills.

The phone calls and anger may have been an over-the-top reaction, but I would let it go this time due to all the rest of the background. The boy may need for the parents to back off and let him grow up in many other areas, but this one seems to be the wrong battle to me.

(Opinions of a troop advancement chair and mom of two Eagles.)

As AC in our troop, I:

-record advancements in Troopmaster and upload to Scoutnet

-Buy badges and hand them to the SM labeled and ready to pass on to the boys

-Make sure COH award lists are complete

-Keep the troop copy of the MBC list and give counselor name and contact information to the boys

-Keep a stash of blue cards for if the SM misses a meeting or runs out (And yes, I do sign them as needed)

-Put the recharter information together and upload it to council at recharter time (no one else knows Troopmaster well enough)

co-ordinate some BORs - the CC seems to think arranging them is his job and so does most of that.

As Advancement Chair for our troop, I am the one with the current counselor listing that the boys need to talk to when they want a counselor name.

For the newer scouts, often the parent comes to me asking for the contact information. I tell them that for the first time around, I will give them the name, but stress that the BOY needs to contact the counselor. And that the next time, their son needs to ask me for the contact information he needs.

They can call, email or speak to me at a meeting in person, so whatever way they are most comfortable is fine.

For pushy parents, I explain the purpose of the counselor program in helping their scouts learn to interact with other people as well as be introduced to new skills. Most of them get it pretty quickly.

For the original post, I would tell the parents to have their son contact me to be added to the list of boys working on the badge.

Our troop currently has 54 on the roster, of which maybe 8 are no longer active and unlikely to return. Another 6 have aged out and so will drop off the roster at recharter time.

We will shortly be crossing over somewhere in the are of 15 new boys for the third year in a row.

Between natural attrition and incoming boys, the total number of scouts seems to be pretty much stabilized in the low 50's.

We have two packs in our town of 60-80 or so boys each that feed into our troop. Their overall numbers have been pretty stable for the past several years too. There are several other troops to choose from in the surrounding suburbs, but it rarely occurs to any of the crossing over boys to investigate other troops. That being said, we have had the occasional boy transfer in or out as suited his needs and circumstances.

When my now 21 year old son was a second year scout, we dropped to 8 active boys. Growing quickly for a few years prompted many dicussions about how to handle the numbers, but we managed to work through it all without too much angst. A big part of the solution was adding a second ASPL and appointing more troop guides and instructors to help the younger boys while giving the older ones a purpose.

As far as splitiing the troop, a scout is loyal, and putting them in the position of deciding which place to go or being arbitrarily assigned would seem to be a poor position to put boys in.

Many years ago as a DL (Two times through)this is what I did.

Camping outside the pack campouts was not done except for a trip to a Council Webelos overnight camp in the summer. And that was plenty for that given the higher parent committment needed to take the Cubs camping. Remember they are only 9 when they cross from Bears to Webelos!!!!!

Each meeting included a game, a craft and some work on an activity pin. Some of this overlapped nicely and some was to keep the less enjoyable pins less onerous. (And when some little guy completely destroys the potential to get anything useful accomplished by telling you that boys don't need to worry about fires because they have a builtin fire hose, you can recover by just going to the next activity.)

Starting in September of 4th grade, we worked on the basics for the Webelos badge which most of them earned in time to receive it at the B&G in February. Then we went on to do the additional pins for the AOL based on their interests.

Most completed the AOL by the next B&G and were ready to cross-over a month later. That last month we finished up loose ends for the guys that still had pins to earn. 2 of each group earned all of them.

We did lots of field trips during meeting times and on Saturdays to augment the pin activities. We went to the library, newpaper printing plant, NASA, chocolate factory, police and fire stations, nature hikes etc. We spent a day or two and maybe one overnight with the scout troop they cross to. There are also belt loops and academic and sports pins and letters to earn. Plenty to do without being Boy Scouts early.

There were three Eagles out of those dens, so something must have gone right.

many years ago, we had a SM with extra vacation time who would take the older boys on a high adventure trip once a year. This ended when he got a new job and had less free time.

About 2 years ago, we had some adults who had the time to resurrect the high adventure group. They required first class and age 14 as the base requirement for these extra camps.

After a year of organizing and getting the interested boys to a point where they can really plan and take ownership of things for themselves, we spun this off into what has become a very active co-ed Venturing Crew.

All these boys have stayed involved with the troop, but enjoy the time at the crew without the need to look after younger scouts too. And they have brought other friends into the crew who wanted the adventure aspect without the advancement aspects of scouts.

It remains to be seen how much Venturing advancement happens there, but the kids are all happy. And I will really be pretty surprised if any of those boys do NOT finish their Eagles with the troop.

Best solution for all involved - the boys see the older guys as leaders in the troop and they see the crew as an additional thing to aspire to as the guys come back from crew activities and tell the younger guys how much fun they will have there too.

In addition to what was said before, you should be able to confirm with the camp what requirements of badges were completed if the question is a difference between what the boys have signed and what they claimed they earned.

We invariably end up with a kid who comes up two months after summer camp wanting to know when he is going to receive some badge we do not have a signed card for. Sometimes we find he really did earn it and the camp lost the card in the sorting process on Friday evening. Sometimes we find he only thought he finished it, but really earned a partial.

Contact the council that runs the camp you attended for summer camp records checks.

Last time I did this was when my now 20 year old was of the proper age for this, but just keep it simple.

We did those types of pins over several weeks with a requirement or two done each week and then the rest of the meeting spent on stuff that was more fun. Pair it up with making art projects for another pin or something. They are then amazed by how much they got done without it seeming like they were learning.

My older son was in Tigers when it functioned poorly with the parents supposed to be leading a once a month meeting with t-shirt transfers for uniforms.

The parents were not prepared in any way for what they were supposed to do, the pack was well led, but lacked an additional leader to coach the Tiger parents, the kids were disappointed by getting only t-shirt transfers instead of any sort of actual uniform..... What we ended up with was more a group of boys that would never consider scouting again. Out of 12 kids, maybe 3 went on to become Wolves the next year.

Add smaller kids and remove participation in the pinewood derby and I see this going nowhere fast.

Probably a better move would be to encourage and provide support for packs for tag-along activities at Cub pack meetings and events so these youngsters - both boys and girls - enjoy the routine of Cub scouts when there is an older boy involved.

As for Daisies, consider that very many girls drop out of girl scouts right about 6th grade. Think any of that might be due to starting so early as well as the other irrelevancy factors the GSUSA seems to be facing?

The same for organized sports. The kids may have fun running around in a group, but have you ever actually watched 5 year olds playing team soccer? They have no clue and are not learning teamwork or rules. Someone needs to remember that little kids needs to be allowed to be little kids and have that time to explore thier world before we choose all their activities and sctructure all their time for them.

My guys both got all the letters from all the various places on the lists. The proclamations from the Ohio House and the Mayor were quuite nice. Our favorite though, was the postcard the older one got from the CIA telling him they were too busy to send a letter.

I read the first and last pages of this thread and not the middle so far.

I was a den leader for both of my boys when they were cubs, includn=ing one year as both a Web 1 and a Tiger leader and the next as both a Web2 and a Wolf leader.

Prior to becoming the den leader for my older son's Bear year, I was a single parent with a preschooler as my husband was employed out of town for 18 months. There was no way during that period that I could have possibly been a DL or ADL. We were present for all the den and pack activities, but no way could I have led. I am greatful for others that could do so.

My final year with my younger son's Web den we absorbed the remains of another den that dissolved. I agreed to take the boys but wanted one of them to have a parent along as an additional adult to for sanity's sake. This was also in a den where I already had a special needs kid who really used most of the den chief's assistance time.

The reason the other den fell apart was due to a leader's work committment. They did have a dad who could be at meetings to be extra hands if I needed them. They did not have another parent who was capable of being a den leader. One of the parents of the boys I took in was clearly not able to work with kids beyond his own. One of the other boys had parents in the midst of a fairly nasty divorce and Cubs was his peaceful, routine place in his world of chaos.

Don't always assume that each of those extra boys has a parent(s) who are at all able to assume the leadership role.

I know you like your group as it is and I agree that too many can get out of hand, but consider taking another one or two if a parent cannot step up for them. You may get lucky and have new boys join Cubs at the round-up and bring along a new den leader so that the extra boys are only a temporary addition. But I will be surprised if you actually sign up 2-4 new 4th graders. They just don't join at that age if they were not there before.

I read the first and last pages of this thread and not the middle so far.

I was a den leader for both of my boys when they were cubs, includn=ing one year as both a Web 1 and a Tiger leader and the next as both a Web2 and a Wolf leader.

Prior to becoming the den leader for my older son's Bear year, I was a single parent with a preschooler as my husband was employed out of town for 18 months. There was no way during that period that I could have possibly been a DL or ADL. We were present for all the den and pack activities, but no way could I have led. I am greatful for others that could do so.

My final year with my younger son's Web den we absorbed the remains of another den that dissolved. I agreed to take the boys but wanted one of them to have a parent along as an additional adult to for sanity's sake. This was also in a den where I already had a special needs kid who really used most of the den chief's assistance time.

The reason the other den fell apart was due to a leader's work committment. They did have a dad who could be at meetings to be extra hands if I needed them. They did not have another parent who was capable of being a den leader. One of the parents of the boys I took in was clearly not able to work with kids beyond his own. One of the other boys had parents in the midst of a fairly nasty divorce and Cubs was his peaceful, routine place in his world of chaos.

Don't always assume that each of those extra boys has a parent(s) who are at all able to assume the leadership role.

I know you like your group as it is and I agree that too many can get out of hand, but consider taking another one or two if a parent cannot step up for them. You may get lucky and have new boys join Cubs at the round-up and bring along a new den leader so that the extra boys are only a temporary addition. But I will be surprised if you actually sign up 2-4 new 4th graders. They just don't join at that age if they were not there before.

All of our patrols have managed to show up with some sort of flag made out of some sort of fabric, even the new guys This should hardly be construed as adding to the requirements. Stop babying the kids!

The boys cannot describe a flag that does not actully exist and honestly be completing the requirement. One of our patrols has a blank flag that originially said "FLAG" but the letter have come off. Simple, but hey have it.

As for the poster who stated tha AOL boys automatically get Scout because it is all covered in the AOL requirements, no, not true.

They should be able to recite it all and earn it their first meeting or two as Scouts, but it is not automatically assumed.

We have the cross-over ceremony for all the Webelos who have earned their Arrow of Light. One Pack we draw from does this the Pack meeting after their B & G. The other holds their B & G a month later and the boys cross over then.

Earning the AOL requires one to fill out a Boy Scout app if I rece=all correctly. We give troop neckercheifs and books to the boys that cross over and pay. The others are crossing out of Cubs, but going nowhere.

Rather than having them try to trade between them for foods stuffs, it sounds like your boys need to have a lesson on shopping for a patrol. And probably the parents need one as well since they are the ones who take their son to the store.

Our boys choose a shopper for their patrol for each campout. This boy is given, in cash, the amount of money from the camp fees that is allotted for food shopping. He also has the menu.

If the food budget is appropriate for the occasion, he should have enough for the meals, but not enough extra to buy tons more than he needs.

Eggs can be purchased in packages of 6. The snack may be listed as Oreos, but the bargain brand may be what fits into the budget. Getting to the checkout and being over so he needs to decide what he can do without is a great learning experience. Make sure the parents know that this is how it works, that they have no obligation to add to the budget (and additions will not be reimbursed) and WHY the boys are to learn to do it themselves.

Some of my sons' most used lessons from scouting as they went off to live in their first college apartments at 18 revolved around being the only ones among their roommates who knew the concept of budgeting, shopping lists and duty rosters. And it was not until I pointed it out to them that they realized where they had not only learned these group living skills, but had also learned the leadership skills they needed to put them to use and teach the other guys.

I am one of five adults in our troop who do not currently have a boy in the troop.

My two have aged out, but I am enjoying the program and the boys in it. Our CC's boys have long since left the program, yet has continued in the program and has continued as CC for the Pack as well since retiring as CM about 15 years ago. Our most recently retired SM had been with the troop nearly 25 years with his own boys being nearly my age.

It is a way to give back to the program and it allows for a bit more continuity as well.

We also have three young men in the program as ASM's and committee member who became Eagles and have either remained active or returned after time away for college. They are 19, 22 (one of my sons) and 29.

All of our adults know and understand all the YP policies and are there to give the boys the same quality program they or their children had. No creepiness with any of us or we would be asked to leave!

As a DL (twice) I timed their activities to finish the AOL in January so it would be presented at the B&G in February. Our scouts then routinely crossed over at the pack meeting in March. We used the last month to finish up miscellaneous stuff for the boys who had a goal of earning all 20 pins and to catch up any boy who had not quite finished the AOL with the others.

At about a pin a month, the Webelos program works fairly well. For the boys who had already earned a pin that rest of the group was working on, I would have him either help lead the activites or I made sure to pick different optional requirements so that he was still doing something new.

This did not seem to bother my more aggressive advancers. One of my dens had a new to scouts boy sign up in September of fifth grade. The more advanced kids were great in helping him catch up so he could earn his AOL with the rest of them.

We have about 50 active boys at this point.

Our troop committee secretary keeps a couple clipboards with a list of boys wanting SM conferences and BOR's. When a boy wants a conference, he puts his name on the appropriate list. When he has had the conference, he then goes and puts his name on the other list. We keep a pretty close eye on who is on the lists, so that we can have the BOR (and conferences) on a timely basis. We usually have enough "old folks" around to get these done within a week or two of the conference.

As advancement chair, I ususally sit on BOR's, but not always. If I did not, the boys are sent to me to record their advancement.

As far as recording completion dates for Troopmaster (dotnet) we have a wireless connection in the church where we meet, but rarely a laptop available. I periodically collect books and record the new dates from them on paper and then update the database from home that evening. This works well for most kids, but there are a couple who consistently miss meetings or don't bring the book and they are well behind the others on paper until they request a conference.

Every couple months I run a report for the SM/committee showing any boy who needs to be specifically checked up on for lack of advancement. This catches the ones who, for whatever reason, don't ask for a conference or BOR that should be scheduled.

I sat on an EBOR for a boy who had a letter of recommendation form his church leader in the packet. During the review, he was asked if he had to eliminate one of the 12 points of the Scout Law, which one would it be. He answered Reverent bacause it was the only one that did not have to do with interactions with others.

The District rep wanted to deny him his Eagle based on the response. We did convince him otherwise.

For other boys, when I help them go over the packet to make sure all the advancement dates are correct (as troop advancement chair), I look to see if they are including a religious reference. If not, I do let them know that they may be asked about religious beliefs at their EBOR, and that whatever they are is personal, but that they do need to have some.

What was promised and what was awarded before are done deals.

You need to do things correctly going forward and it sounds like you have that under control there as well.

What you need to do is check the Council ScoutNet records to make sure they are correct and that the troop records and the boys records match.

Get an advancement summary from Council and then spend the time to sit with each boy and have him check his record against what has been recorded at council. Or better yet, delegate this to your new Advancement Chair!

As far as your son and the badge he knows he didn't really earn, once it is awarded and recorded, it is a done deal. Rather than expect him to do an extra one just for you, sit with him and help him finish the requirements he didn't do at the time.

If I came across a MB counselor who would not accept work done in school that also fit an MB requirement just because it was also schoolwork, I would be sure to never send another boy to that counselor again!

Why would it have to be done twice?