mpaull

Had a chance to ask a few folks at our local Council about Cooking since I'm a Chef and will be the one teaching it. As far as they knew, the requirements (and the MB book) won't change. Anyone already having it, will continue to have it for Eagle. Anyone taking it after Jan1 will still be taking the same 'course' and fulfilling the same requirements.

Cool to hear that the guys who already have it can trade in the badge for the silver version. Thanks mozartbrau.

Collar? What collar? http://www.myphilately.com/asset/u91188_Nederland205.jpg

So what happened at the meeting? Did the parents select the ASPL and SPL? Did they select and you are working on changes for the next year? I'm dying of curiosity.

(This message has been edited by mpaull)

While my experience in modern Scouting is somewhat limited, I have been a high-level sports official for some time, and am familiar with applying "RULES of play". When reading the quote from the new G2SS that started this thread, two words immediately jumped out at me - "appropriate" and "sufficient". These grey area words are open to considerable interpretation. Also, what does "present" mean? Many posters have bemoaned the demise of independant patrol action, and only a few have questioned what, exactly, do "appropriate", "sufficient" and "present" mean?

If I may pull a few quotes from other posts: "Adults should leave the boys alone unless something very stupidly dangerous is going on." (perdidochas), " ...Adults in the center of the Spokes and radiating out 300 feet are ... Is 300 feet close enough to qualify ... Is 300 yards? Half Mile? How close meets the "Appropriate adult leadership" " (OldGreyEagle). "I don't see a limit on how long a "spoke" could be." (SeattlePioneer).

I assume your Patrols will let you know over the course of their time with you what "appropriate" and "sufficient" mean for them. I'm sure it will be a sliding scale with differences between Patrols, and differences for the same Patrol over time.

I do know enough to understand that the Patrol method has been dealt a blow (and that some Leaders have been given a smack in the chops), but how devastating that blow is will be up to the Scouts to determine through their maturity, preparation, and assuming of the mantles of leadership. Which, I suppose, brings us almost back to the original intent of the Patrol method once again.

Share this G2SS revelation with your Patrols - it will become a point of pride for them that "appropriate" and "sufficient" mean that you are "present" at a site just over half a mile away, and that even though a bar of soap returned home still in the wrapper, the Patrol can still say, "Hey we did it! We made it happen". (Eamonn)

To dg98adams - sounds awesome - I gotta remember that. Thanks for the great presentation idea.

We are similar to many others here in that we do a "waist up" sort of thing for the kids - this is more financial than any other reason. We do uniform at Pack meetings. For Den meetings, we were a bit looser. I help out at my son's Webelos 1 meetings and when we had the group devise their code of conduct for Den meetings, the question of uniforms came up. The leaders encouraged the kids to decide on something like "We will be APPROPRIATELY uniformed for all meetings." This means that most often it will be the Class A shirts and neckers but, with advance notice from the leaders based on the day's activities, could be the Pack t-shirt, or even 'grubbies' if the activity is outside and dirty. This certainly puts us closer to the category of 'requiring' uniforms with all the attendant $ issues, but our Pack runs a uniform locker for those who need assistance and we have had no problems.

The kids are great about this and we have had no problems thus far. Now, trying to get the leaders to be in full uniform at Pack meetings - that's going to be a challenge. At our last meeting, only the other ACM and I were in full uniform; several other leaders, including the CM, were not - an unfortunate message to send to both parents and kids.

A 'certified' letter with a 'signature required' tag - just to cover your bases.

So, the two are the same? Do the requirements for the specific religion (Parvuli Dei, etc.,), receive the medal, then automatically get the Knot with no further requirements?

Lisabob, at the end of the second page of comments, brought up something that I would think should be a fairly major consideration as well - that is, the setting of "OFFICIAL PRECEDENT". If it becomes 'Precedent / SOP' to take a cub and give special dispensation to complete certain requirements outside the normal framework of his Den, then where could that lead? What if 3 cubs had a problem, but two of them couldn't work with each other either? Do you now have a Den of 4-5 plus three more groups of 'pseudo-lone Cubs'? I see a slippery slope. If the CM doesn't want this decision to revisit him every year, then he'd better decide he's not too "swamped" to deal with it after all.

However, why should the CM say that he "doesn't think that he could work with the scout"? Where's the ADL? A number posters have identified issues/red flags with the DL and I agree based on the evidence so far presented. However, I have seen no mention of the ADL. Obviously, with two-deep leadership firmly in place, the ADL should be an active part of whatever training etc., is going on in this Den. Are there similar issues between ADL and Cub?

Is there a Den Chief in this Webelos Den? It seems there should be a number of other options within the framework of the existing Den to adequately provide for this young man without the questionable solution of an outsider having to step in and take over his remaining months as a Cub. Perhaps your son, who has already indicated an interest in helping out, could talk to the CM and get appointed as Den Chief for the remainder of the session. As a Committee Member of the Troop, IM_Kathy, it is certainly in your best interests to foster as many connections as possible between Pack and Troop - providing Den Chiefs falls firmly in this category. In this regard you are not an outsider, but an integral part of the process of Webelos to Scout transition.

Depending in the situation, I believe your next conversation with the CM officially should be about your Troop providing Den Chiefs to several of his Dens, and unofficially could be about getting him to remind the DL about the philosphy of Scouting and getting both her and the ADL to step up and do their jobs. Hopefully he is not too swamped to do that.(This message has been edited by mpaull)(This message has been edited by mpaull)

I found the Parvuli Dei Material at our local Scout Store, but have had mixed results on the material for the Religion Square Knot for Cubs. Can anyone point me in the right direction?

With thanks.

Remember, the Uniform you wear cries aloud, I am a Scout. see that it is the Official Uniform, that it is correctly worn, and that the insignia are correctly placed, for in the Uniform, you stand for the Boy Scouts of America.

- Chief Scout Executive James E. West, circa 1918

"So the Uniform, helping the boy to look the part of the Scout, makes it easy for him to act the Scout. It sets up the Scout inside and out. It stirs within him respect for the Scout Oath and the Scout Law. And, respecting the Scout Law, he has swung far along toward the foundation of all good citizenship, namely Respect for the Law"

- Edward F. Reimer, "Matching Mountains with the Boy Scout Uniform", 1929

I came across some pants advertised in-store as BDU and, apart from the lack of zip-off lower pant-legs, you wouldn't need to be more than 5 feet away to mistake them for Scout pants. Judging by the stitching, etc., they appeared to be much better able to withstand the rigors of camp.

I hope there is a common-sense answer to this question; perhaps military specific equipment, military identification badges, military camo designs etc., not allowed whereas generic, appropriately colored clothing items are allowed?

Would it be safe to say that the necker tied with friendship knot (and no slide) is a European thing, and that using a slide (with or without 'good deed knot' at the end) is a North American thing? UCEagle mentioned the knot being in the 7'th edition handbook - has it gone out of style for US Scouts? Was it ever a Cub thing?

m(This message has been edited by mpaull)

balding man who bent down to check the friendship knot in his neckerchief just as the picture was taken

o)

:-})>== Smiling man with mustache and goatee and a long neckerchief.

;-{)== Smiling man, winking, with walrus mustache and a long neckerchief.

I wish the system would leave the : and the )

Your version hearkens back to the day when scouts put a knot in the bottom of the neckerchief as a reminder of the daily good deed.

:}<

:}>

Introducing a new emoticon < smiley face with a necker

Just had to share it.

Mike

Wow - this is rapidly becoming a huge presentation - I think I could talk for a couple of hours on the necker and the slides - heck, a powerpoint of whittlin jim's stuff would be a sizeable undertaking in itself.

Thanks for all the great information. I still haven't decided on the exact route I'm going to take yet (still have 1 1/2 months until the meeting), so keep the necker related ideas coming.

Thanks again to all - maybe I'll try to get the final presentation online somehow so you can see how it turned out.

What are the ODL and LS shirts? Why the switch from one to the other? Is the over / under question based on what kind of shirt you wear?

So, a good place to start would be Oak Tree's list - "... various points of evidence - annual calendar, emails to troop list, using troop equipment, various planning meetings, and probably a tour permit and traveling in uniform ... the boys don't have any other organization"

Have all that in place, don't contravene G2SS, and you should be good?

Greetings Forum,

I am a fledgling Trainer for my pack and I am attending Trainer's EDGE in a couple of months. For my presentation, I was thinking it would be fun to look at the neckerchief: to tuck or not to tuck, style vs. substance, historical precedent, uses of, etc.

I am hoping for some guidance as to where to look for interesting tid-bits of necker lore. Anything you have will be useful. I may have to trim the topic a bit for the 12 minute time slot, but right now I'll take all I can get.

With thanks to all,

Mike Paull

Pack Trainer (in Training)

#28 Medina, NY

This very question brought about one of those circular "yes-it-is / no-it-isn't / yes-it-is" kind of conversations. Neither of the participants could cite BSA literature to support their side of the discussion. Is there anything in BSA literature that gives a definitive answer either way? Was there ever a grain of truth at the beginning of this myth?

Mike

p.s. to my previous post.

I believe the strict answer to the question is that it is both. You are entitled to go by virtue of your membership in BSA, and when you go, you should consider it an honor and privilege and prepare accordingly.

Being somewhat new to Scouting, I was curious as to why this event only occurs every four years? Someone mentioned that if you only get one shot at it, then you are going to go - ready or not. I assume the reason is fiscal, but would every three, or even two, years be totally out of the question?

So - how'd it go? Have you had your 'State of the Pack' meeting yet?

Best wishes for a successful conclusion,

Mike