Gone

I'd be surprise to know where TWO originated from.  in 30+ years of scouting, I have never heard an explanation or even hearing about anyone who might know.  It's just a made up tradition used in the BSA.  I don't know of any other organization that uses it.

According to our Old Guard ringer, he thinks it is short for the secondary command given in the military to return to ready position, they just skipped one part of that command. He's not certain but that's his best guess.

We are not a military organization and military protocol should not be the norm.  Civilian Scouts are to use the US Flag Code as directed by Congress.

 

My military buddies always use the PRESENT ARMS to salute and ORDER ARMS to return to the position of Attention.  At least that's what my CC who is presently serving in the National Guard at the moment told me.  He also told me he had no idea where the TWO came from in that the military does not use it .  

 

It probably should be noted that no matter where one goes there's probably going to be local variances, traditions and such, but when it comes to teaching the T-FC requirements, one ought to stick with the US Flag Code.

And yet we use military terms all the time in scouting. Does hurt to teach them.

Arms are only presented when you have actual "arms", otherwise you give the command to attention. As @@walk in the woods pointed out its a two part command. You can't present arms if you're unarmed. Your NG buddy is confused....or always armed.

I was always taught that military commands have two parts (Forward-March, About-Face, ToTheRear-March, Hand-Salute, LeftOblique-March), the first part being the command and the second part marking the execution of the first.  I was a Navy guy but I think the guys with rifles use Present-Arms and Order-Arms to start and end a salute or some such thing like that.  So for a salute, with no rifle, ready-two sounds better than ready-go or ready-drop (that a boot camp thing ) !

I think he was asking "Where does the term 'two' come from." Agree on your points about commands.

What flag ceremony script does your unit use?

The Marine Corps Drill and Ceremony manual. We also thankfully have access to an adult who served with the Old Guard (so he hates that we use the Marine Corps manual) who helps our scouts practice proper etiquette.

Ours is very similar and maybe you can answer a question I've always had.  Why do you/we say "Two"?  It makes no sense to me.

It comes from the military command as a response to get units back to attention or at ease. It is coupled with the command "hand salute" or "salute" (depending on your service branch). It gets units back to attention from the salute position. You'll find it defined in most military ceremony manuals.

As to its etymology, I cannot say. They don't teach you that in the military, only why we use it.

No specified ceremony, as you say, but many believe that they have "the" answer.

 

All good if: 1) dignified; 2) looks like you know what you are doing; 3) practiced

 

"Color Guard -  attention."

"Troop  - (camp) attention."

"Color Guard - advance." (Color Guard marches to position and rigs flag for raising.  

When flag ready for hoist, senior member of Color Guard looks at formation commander.

"Color Guard Raise the Colors/Hand Salute/Bugler Sound off."

When flag is at the peak: "Two"

When flag has been secured: "Color Guard - retire." (Color Guard marches off.)

When Color Guard has retired: "Troop (camp) at ease."

As flag is in transit to its posting position the salute should be given. If raising up a flag pole the salute is given just before it goes up. Reverse when retiring the colors. Most units I see get this bit mixed up.

That is awesome that your unit did that Bad Wolf. That is type of stuff that makes Scouting work, and gives great memories.

 

Please, please, PLEASE KEEP AT IT (caps for begging   )  I tried for years to get my current chapter to go local, It was slowly getting there, then stopped when I had to concentrate on Cubs.  However, our lodge has picked up on it.  Some chapters still go "Hollywood" but more and more are going local, including mine.

Our unit is not looked upon well by the adults in the lodge....mostly the guys who have been around forever and don't want to lose power.

Our kids have three ceremony teams now, do webelos cross overs and we do our own tap outs. Our kids love it and we've even pulled kids from the next district who can't get on the lodge team. At first kids wanted to quit their units and join us, but we said stay in your unit and join us anyway.

Almost fell off my chair at "another shade of white."It has always been "legal" to be a gay leader. It just hasn't been "legal" to be an openly gay leader. (Well, until about 20-25 years ago it was "avowed or known", whatever that means, then it changed to just "avowed".) So this person's kids may have been around non-openly gay leaders, or as you say, gay (openly or not) parents, non-leaders, other guests, etc. Not to mention, since 2013, openly gay Scouts. At least in theory. I still don't know of any openly gay (current) Scouts. And none of our adult leaders has "come out" in the past couple of weeks. I am not expecting that any will.It also should be remembered that Scouting is just part of the rest of the world. My children had two openly gay teachers while in high school. They also had dozens and dozens of apparently straight teachers and professors during their school years. The latter 98 percent seem to have been more persuasive role models for my children.

Yes, but these other examples are not private organizations with a policy. There was an expectation by this man. I suspect you bought your house where you did for a reason. If they opened a crack house or XXX store next door I'm sure you'd turn a few shades of white too.

Our lodge doesn't have a clue. Our unit spoke with the local nation and got them to help us (actively) dress out our ceremonial team in dress consistent with the role intended. Our songs, music and dance are all consistent with actual dances from our local nation.

The lodge looks like a bad B western set when they do their ceremony. It is embarrassing.

It was a poll of 500 people. This means it was a cheap, bare bones attempt to take a pulse. No methodology published that I saw which means it could be as scientific as this forum.

Rabbit barn at the County Fair (wife is sorry I chose to come in later rather than earlier today, but choices in life.  House needs cleaning too).   Signs everywhere:  "Do Not Stick Fingers In Cages. Rabbits May Bite!"  And in espaniol...  I approach a woman using  right index finger to stroke bunny thru wire, she responds "I have rabbits, I am a rabbit person. I know rabbits".  and stalks off. 

Boy, perhaps 6 years old, RUNS into barn, CLIMBS on cage and rabbit reacts by nipping his fingers.   We retrieve boy, apply first aid to fingers.  Where's your mommy?  "She's over there" and he gestures out the door.  We call the office, animal control lady comes down,  and assesses the situation.  Mommy shows up,  "oh, Johnny what happened?  How could you people be so NEGLEGENT in ALLOWING my boy to be INJURED??!!  (her insistence  showing). She threatens to sue.  Animal control lady says.  " you are certainly free to act as you see fit, but your boy is not hurt, and I am about to report you to the police for child abandonment.  May I see your identification for my report?"     Mom and boy walk off and are not seen again.....

I may have missed it, but PLEASE say the mom was the "rabbit person".

The scout requests letters. No particular form is specified. Letters go to the SM or to the scout who collects them and turns them in to the SM.

Odd they let the scout collect them given BSA's directive about scout involvement.

Personally I see no reason to not have the scout involved. A scout is trustworthy right?

Interesting, our troop "budget meeting" is tonight.  All parents have been invited.

At some point I hope the boys get to help. We used to be adult driven at that level but changed that 10-12 years ago. Now our boys know how much to budget for food ($13), how much for site rental (varies), gas (varies) and incidentals (propane, mantles, etc.). We helped them develop an event budget sheet which they fill out at annual planning for every event and submit to the troop committee. The TC refines but the budget came from the scouts.

We used to do archery and hawks. Can't do hawks anymore so we stick to archery. Since we do this a lot it is not a ringer meeting. Cooking demos (where you can eat AND help cook) are good, but again, we do those all the time. Our "swat" team guys are just as prepared as our regular guys.

Our district accepts general references in one's own style. As soon as our scouts turn Life we begin working with them to identify adults who would 1) be willing to write a good letter of reference and 2) would be willing to write a GOOD letter of reference. We work on this list and fine tune it during their Life rank so these are ready when the scout is prepared to sit for his ESMC.

@@NationalTrailEagle84, @@jr56, @@jr56,@@pargolf44067, @@qwazse, thanks everyone. Our PLC is looking in to this camp and asked me to check out "what the adults are saying" about it.

I have seen a few home made videos and the camp looks nice. Dinning hall looks good and the list of activities sound great. The Pipestone program is something out scouts have not seen so I am sure they will eat that up!

What distance does your Troop travel for Summer Camp?   What's the maximum you've done?  The minimum?  How much of a role does distance play in the decision making process?

Always. We rotate between in-council and out. Boys decide and we have a short list of recommendations which the Scribe keeps track of on a spreadsheet. It's 60 miles to our council camp. We've gone 1,800 miles before (rented bus). Cost is a factor but not the only one. If we go far renting a bus is preferred, but then we need to fill the bus in order to make the price point under $300 or so for the transportation cost. If we go far one year (and have a high transport cost) we usually go fairly close by (meaning no bus rental) the following year.

High adventure is usually done in conjunction with summer camp UNLESS it is a national HA base year. We try to go local or near by in those years to those who want to do HA and summer camp may do so. We usually find in those years most elect to do one or the other, not because of cost but because of time.

I am debating whether or not to change to a hosting site like Scoutlander or SOAR and potentially paying.  I am afraid if we change and we have to have people use logins, we may get usage to drop.  Has anyone used both Google and another webhosting site to be able to give me a comparison of other sites vs Google?  Also, how much usage does your website get with the security on the website?  We also like to use our website as a recruiting tool where people can see the things we have done and the security kind of foils that ability, in my opinion.  Any thoughts on that as well?

 

Thanks!

We use SOAR/mytroop. My thoughts:

• Very easy to use and maintain. Templates and widgets work well. Tracking registrations, payments, etc. VERY easy.
• Ability to secure certain pages and make other pages open.
• Have many recurring things both events and pages. You can assign others to manage a page or a whole section.
• Mailing lists you can create are GREAT!!!
• Security not an issue. Initial set up means everyone needs to have an email in the system then it generates user IDs and passwords. Resetting either is easy. Reminders sent to those not using the system also easy.

I used to maintain the old website and would put 8-10 hours/week in just coding, changes, admin, etc. With SOAR/mytroop I spend about 1-2 hours/week and it is mostly organizing content or putting/taking down stuff. I could farm even that out to someone but I like that small bit of control. Sunday AM cup of coffee and I am done with my week's admin work.

Oh, and I can do it on the road, so mobile access to make changes not an issue either.

Unfortunately, all nights are not created equally.  Some troop meetings are by the book agenda.  Others are structured differently and just won't create an exciting impression.

That's the point! Incoming Webelos want to see the program warts and all, not just what is created and rehearsed for their benefit.

If the unit's youth leaders are organized you should be able to publish monthly themes and have your meetings plans done weeks in advance. You should know your location if you are working with your COR. Publish all that online and stick to it. Webelos show up and participate. They either like it or they don't.

The last thing you want is to get all dressed up for the Webelos, have then join and then they see all the warts later.

@5yearscoutersame thing happened in my old pack. They lost their CO in 2013 and had to find a new home. Just now breaking 35 Cubs again.

@@mashmaster that's a good price for the quality you get.

@@blw2, I think @@Eagledad points are well taken. Kids that go for the fun or food or friends usually end up out of scouting after one year. The depth of the program, training, leadership and variety of program are what matters. Kids of 10-11 won't recognize that. They'll be all about the fun. The key is to see through the cracks and find out how the unit runs normally.

I always tell every parent, if they don't like a unit they can always leave. You won't hurt my feelings. Sometimes you get in to something that you find out later wasn't for you. Great. The goal should be for the kids to learn and grow and have fun.

Thanks, Bad Wolf.  I guess I will try to look deeper into this.  But it seems that everyone at Council is against the idea of advertising our relatively new camp property.  They are so strongly concerned about recouping costs quickly that they will not commit to making any merchandise.  While we are not any where near the level of Camp Rainey Mountian, that council knows they have a product and they are actively selling it.

That's too bad. Sounds like you council needs a better marketing person. I would think they would be interested in some type of marketing. Coins or medallions might be too high cost for them. T-shirts and hats are lower cost and easier to sell/promote, higher margins too. Everyone likes T's, the hiking stick medallion market is likely an over-40 old-fart thing.

I have been talking about walking stick medallions at every district meeting and other gatherings that I attend in my council.  I am consistently hit with "but do you have any idea how much costs to create a medalion or how long it would take to recoup the investment?"  I do not know the answers to those questions of course and Internet only research has not given me any help.  I have not contacted a vendor to see about the set-up because I am not in position to design or create a medallion.  Does anyone know the costs involved. Bad Wolf you created a coin?  I would imagine it is more expensive.

We did this:

• Found a provider that could take our non-vector-based artwork. That's the key. That way you can create anything in powerpoint or photo shop and give to the company. Some charge for converting, others don't Obviously the less work they do the less it costs.
• Do your own artwork. Make sure you get their specifications.
• If they have a template or standard artwork it is cheaper to use theirs and customize the text.
• Recoup of costs depends on your volume, your audience, your sale price, etc. We got them as gifts so we did not even try to recoup costs.
• We have folks who do graphic design for a living so we could do our own artwork.
• Custom design, high number of colors, etc., all equal higher costs. Keep it simple if you can.

@@Hedgehog I think there's stuff kids want to know and stuff parents want to know. Sometimes we get lost in the boy-led discussion and forget that the Webelos haven't had that yet and parents (akela) are still very much the leaders.

When we were looking we spent a few meetings with the boys putting together their list of questions. Parents did the same. The boys asked the questions of the other boys while the parents got their questions answered by the SM.

There are considerations requiring adult review in the troop selecting process.