miranthis

On 6/5/2018 at 1:34 PM, cgail said:

http://www.thegoosescache.com/index.php/product/tan-shirt-pack/

This is what we use.  My son is the SPL, a Chapter Chief (our lodge has a POR patch for that) and is a Camp Staff member, so he uses velcro.  I am an Associate Lodge adviser, chapter advisor, Troop committee member, and Unit Commissioner, and with only 2 uniforms I use the velcro POR for that change so I am wearign the right POR for the job.

Jeff in KC

I'm Catholic in a Catholic sponsored troop.  I stopped going to vespers at out summer camp because it was unabashedly a Christian service and I didn't think that was appropriate given the inevitability that there were non Christians who were asked to or even made to attend the service without it being clearly labeled as Christian.  I don't mind attending services of other faiths, but I need it to be completely voluntary and well described up front.

Just a reminder here, one Catholic scouter to another, 'Catholic' and 'Christian' are not opposites.  We Catholics ARE one christian denomination of many, but we are still christian (i won't get into the 'first Christians' issue here as that is not ecumenical).  You can contrast catholic and protestant, or even catholic and a specific other denomination (Catholic and Lutheran), but Catholic is a subset of christian and can't fairly be contrasted to the whole.    In our council we clearly denote the various faiths for services, and if it is all faith we make that clear.

Yes, they have their secrets. Look at this page, It says under the title "Keeper of the Sacred Bundle" that "By tradition, the most important responsibilities of a Keeper of the Sacred Bundle are never detailed in print."

Um, the page you cite, micosay.org, is the site for the MOS at Pony Express Council at Camp Geiger.  The Mic-o-Say at H. Roe Bartle Scout Reservation, in Heart of America Council, has its website at http://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say.  The programs are similar, and both come from the mind and efforts of H. Roe Bartle himself, but are not the same.  

Actually, in addition to MOS we also have the largest OA lodge in the country, Tamegonit Lodge 147, and we have a much higher than average Eagle scout rate, or so national keeps telling us.  MOS is also at Pony express Council and they have NO OA lodge.  There are also offshoots of MOS in the Tribe of Lone Bear over at Camp Arrowhead and others more distantly related.  

As a person who was born, raised and works in the KC Metro, in the business world, being an Eagle Scout, Tribesman of MOS,and/or an Arrowman of Tamegonit Lodge 147 all get you to the top of my list at interview time.  Heck, when I got my current job 4 years ago, one of the interview questions was about my tribal name in MOS.  All the prime movers in law, banking, construction, government, etc. are either MOS folks or have given enough time and or treasure to the council to know what it is about.  

It clearly benefits the boys, as our average scout goes to 5 years of summer camp and makes at least life scout.  It is much like a fraternal organization and the higher-ups are all adults.  But then our OA Lodge is a well run, boy lead endeavor and both programs benefit from the association.  I am an adult advisor to the OATR of our troop and assist at the Chapter level and with the Lodge Ceremonial team, and I encourage all the scouts that have the opportunity, to take advantage of both programs.
 

BSA is aware and has been for tens of decades.  Just like scouting in general, Mic-O-Say is for everyone, but not everyone is for Mic-O-Say.

just my 2 cents.  YMMV and all that.

Not to dampen the enthusiasm of you guys, but the current Chieftain of Mic-O-Say is the CSE, Mike Surbaugh. I think BSA has all the facts they need about MOS. 
http://www.hoac-bsa.org/mic-o-say-bio-michael-surbaugh

The Committee runs the unit, handles the logistics, service and support functions, and is the day to day supervisory arm of the unit making sure that the program side meets the goals and aims of scouting, follows the Guide to Safe Scouting and all policies of the BSA, unit and chartering organization.  They recruit train, feed, and water the SM/CM and make recommendations to the IH and COR about the hire and fire side of things, especially the hire/fire of the SM/CM.  They answer to and report to the COR and IH.  The CM or SM runs the program side and reports to the committee, picks/nominates his ASM's and such and deals with the Boys.. ..Basically, the Committee sets the field and the SM makes sure the boys play in it.  They can play however they want, so long as they stay within the boundaries and rules.  In our troop each youth position has a corresponding position on the committee (QM has the Equipment chair, Advancement has the Scribe, OATR has the OA Adult Advisor, etc) that supports the position.  If the QM says we need X equipment, they snag the Equipment Chair and make the case.  The Equipment Chair gets approval for the $$ and makes it happen.  The SM/ASM's act as a guide for the boys to figure out who to make the case to, what to say an d how to follow up.  Sounds more complicated than it is.  But as long as everyone knows his/her role it works just fine.

Jeff in KC

[snip]

 

Maybe I don't understand, but why?

Read your post last friday and searched for a good answer.  Then at a multi troop scout event in our district I overheard a similar discussion between a couple of adult leaders about OA vs being an Eagle Scout.  My position would be this: You don't understand because you are asking the wrong questions.  It is not about what benefit OA can offer you or your son, or what part it might play in his resume or on a college application.  It is about Arrowmen, mainly in small and un noticed ways, providing service to the rest of society.  Many if not most of those called may never do great things, or large works, and that is as it should be.  But for those that do absorb the principles and focus on really living the Scout Oath and Law, it can be enriching even int he small things.

The more years that have passed since my ordeal in 1983, the more I have found that those principles - brotherhood, cheerfulness, service -  can be found and applied in almost every part of my life.

So, it is sort of a garbage in/garbage out type of thing.  If you don't do the work of brotherhood, cheerfulness and service, you are unlikely to get any 'benefit' from OA.  Like Pres. Kennedy said, paraphrasing, Ask not what OA can do for you, but what you can do for OA.

Jeff in KC 

No really standardized way to do it. You got to know you SM, and have support when you talk to him about steppign down.

 

I do not suggest doing what my CC wanted to do with my son's SM: tell point blank he's fired and now on the troop committee.

 

I know, CC can't do that, but COR is SM's son, and although he knows it time for dad to step down, he doesn't have the heart.CC said he would handle it as he and dad are good friends.

 

June 1 aint coming soon enough for the SM elect ( he's still CM), and June 6th ain't coming soon enough for me ( when I change from MC to ASM with the troop and DL to MC with the pack.)

In our unit, following the BSA model, one of the Committee duties is to recruit and suggest leaders (including the SM) that the COR or IH can choose to appoint - as the CO owns the unit and all leaders serve at the pleasure of the CO.  The committee retains the supervisory and managerial oversight of the program leaders and program, while not being directly involved in the program side itself (that is what all those boards of review are for, the committee QC's the program and acts as the eyes and ears of the COR, IH and CO).  While the CC can't just unilaterally fire the SM or any other leader (short of a YP issue) we can and have, as a committee brought the SM  up to speed on issues our supervision revealed...if counselling the SM does not bring the program back into the fold we can loop in the COR,and/or IH rand if it gets bad enough the COR or IH can remove a leader.  It happened once for a burnt out SM that just could not bring himself to say 'no more' and once for a power mad CC that tried to work a personal vendetta against another leader and his family.  Its always a last step, but the IH and COR can end an appointment on the advice of the committee just as easily as they can make the appointment.  We have to work to remove obstacles to boy leadership, which many problem leaders represent.

The trick in all of this is to try to keep it transparent to the boys as they need no part of adult squabbles and are not suited to evaluate or discipline adults.  We owe them nothing but the best program, always. 

Jeff in KC

$65 yearly fee plus the $24 to National.  Camp outs are all individually priced depending on activity.  Usually a friday to sunday camp is $15 for food plus any unusual site fees (June we are going to a stable and doing Horsemanship so there is a stable fee for the horses etc.Most regular months are just the food fee)  If travelling more that 2 hours we do impose a gas fee to help defray the cost for the guy stuck hauling the troop gear trailer.   Summer camp is $320 for 10 days and there is a 'crackerbarrel' fee that covers the costs of a camp t-shirt and all the ice and cleaning or other supplies that we have to have for summer camp including the Visitor's Sunday meal.  No monthly dues.

Its not cheap, but it is cheaper that day care...:-)

Jeff in KC

P.S.  Last couple of years we have waived the yearly fee for any returning Eagle Scouts and they only pay the $24 to National.  It has helped us retain some Eagles for meetings and camping, both monthly and the OA events.  Most of the scouts attend summer camp for 5 years, but drop off after that as work and school intrude.

Boy Scouts cannot help at an event where Alcohol is present.

I understand your point, but you lose the rule in your paraphrase. Applied to the original post, I think that scouts should not attend as a group in uniform. However, our scouts "help" at Mass a couple of times a year (at least scout Sunday and the Mass before Summer camp), and we have to have alcohol there (fruit of the vine and work of human hands...) in order for it to be a Catholic Mass. Of course before the Catholic Scouts drink it (yes, the Scouts DO drink at this scout function...a Scout is reverent and faithful to his duty to God. :-) ), the priest transubstantiates it.

Yep. Been doing it since the 50's in our lodge (Tamegonit #147). Here is an overview. http://www.hoac-bsa.org/coup-thong

Many of the lodges in our area do Something of this sort. Wah-Sha-She in Ozark Trails has super long ones with a bead for every lodge event.....several lodges still use a form of the Mic-o-say claws, and then there is our own Mic-o-say Tribe at H. Roe Bartle Reservation, whichi s a whole different animal......lots of examples to look at.

Not a fan of the change from a "band together to fight the bad guys that threaten us" to a "partner with the not-so-bad guys cause they really are just like us" imagery. Seems like it got nerfed, PC'ed and molded into a different tale. Just my 2 cents.

The most memorable part of the Brotherhood ceremony from my personal experience (in 1983) was the 'burden' and that, thankfully, remains, with some changes. Can't give more details in the open, but that portion seemed to crystallize the three principals (W, W & W) for me in one scene.

Both those requirements are in sections where you need to do one of several. Are you saying the counselor said he did this specific one, and you know he did not? If he did 5 a, b or d he still meets the requirement. Just clarifying.