Mike Long

Paul you raise an interesting point as to what is considered a disability. I have been in troops as a scout and an adult with boys and leaders that fit everything on your list. But I certainly would not describe most of them as disabled. With that list being the criteria one would think that it would be harder to find units that did not work with the disabled. Many of us think only of physical disabilities or ones with obvious visual characteristics.

Many of the items listed I never considered a disability because all the scouts I knew who had those conditions never let any of it stop them from doing everything the rest of us did. So we never treated any of the guys with those conditions any differently than anyone else. It was a non-issue to us. If any of these conditions kept scouts from participating we never knew. They just skipped an outing. We wouldn't notice because we had so much going on that it was difficult to do everthing we did, disabled or not.

I have never personally taught the badge but I would have great difficulty defining who is and who is not disabled. My wife is diabetic, my brother developed cerebal palsy as a child and my neighbor has no hands, trust me, not one of them is disabled. Yes certain things in everyday life have different levels of difficulty for each of them but I certainly can not has that their respective conditions have disabled them.

Is disability just a matter of perception or degree?

Speak up sonny!

Yer talkin' in my bad ear!

I'm in tha same boat. I just held one Eagle court of honor Nov. 29 and I have three more coming up. What a great problem to have!

Outdoor COHs are cool by their very nature.

I did once see a OA themed Eagle court done for a Lodge Chief. Basically the ceremonies team came out and conducted the COH in full regalia with a fire and candle lanterns. The most powerful ceremony in my mind is the Ordeal ceremony for OA. This was more so.

The only thing is that the ceremony only seems appropriate if the Eagle was an active or very active member of the order if he wasn't it comes off as disingenuous but that doesn't stop you from pulling elements from it and making your own ceremony.

I think www.eaglescout.org (my current favorite site)has the full ceremony online but I'm not sure.

Troop 623 sends its heartfelt congradulations to the Candidate, his family and Troop.

Yep, by the book SMs and ASMs don't vote in committe and don't participate in boards of review.

In practice it is not always that way. I have never been in a troop that the committee handles boards of review. At best we get the advancemant chair to be on them and hopefully another committe member but first class and down is handled by our PLC with an adult present. I have to work hard to get adults for star and up boards but everbody wants to sit on an Eagle board. Go figure.

We have such a lackluster response to our committe meetings (6 people at the last one including me and my wife who attends more to support me than the troop) that anyone who shows gets to vote. In our opinion if you care enought to be there then you should be allowed to vote.

Pathetic in a troop 40 that of the 6 the breakdown was a husband/wife couple, two moms and my wife and I and we don't even have children.

The shiney side is that despite poor adult participation we get the support we need when we need it. Things would run a lot smoother if we had better participation but we make do and the boys all seem satisfied with the program and thats what matters to me.

I have looked also and have found nothing that states that the BSA requires anything other than the candidate to recieve his award. I have seen several different ceremonies and each one was handled differently as far as who presented the award, who administered the oath or charge (if at all) and who was the MC.

I am led to believe that the ceremony is completely up to the Troop and Candidate as to what and how they would like it to be.

A great site to check out is www.eaglescout.org

Lots of good info there.

We built our own props for courts of honor. There was a similar question posted a while back, maybe it can be of help.

Link

http://www.scouter.com/forums/viewThread.asp?threadID=507

The six foot Eagle medal sounds pretty cool.

Rooster7 (and everyone else here) no one needs to apologize for anything said here.

I assume that we are all interested in finding answers witht the best of intentions.

The portion of the flag code that I was responding to was explained to me as such that "persons in Uniform" referred to the US military.

Do I ignore "that part?" If I do it is unintentional.

When teaching respect for the flag I use the only book a Boy Scout needs....

...The Boy Scout Handbook.

I'm done.

Thanks for the link.

Obviously some of the articles I have read need to be revisited and the sources motives questioned.

Revisionism strikes again.

In retrospect yes youare right, I should have not used caps. However the military has a very different purpose than ours. The military builds warriors. Baden Powell created scouting because boys were studying his military training manual for Scouts (recon). He was horrified at the thought of children studying to be warriors. All differences between Scouting and military service are intentional. It has always been this way and should remain this way.

Knee-jerk?

Disrespect?

Rooster7 I can understand your reaction given the circumstances and I am in no way offended by your post.

So let me clarify:

My father served in the US Navy for 20 years. My grandfather served in the US Army during WW2 in the Pacific (never spoke of it, found his discharge papers after he died), most of my co-workers served, my troop was sponsored by a Navy Base, I still live less than 3 miles from that same base, I recieved my Eagle in the Base Chapel, the officers of the USS Starke sponsored my lifetime membership in NESA. Anyone remember the Starke? I do everyday. My Committee Chairman just retired his commission as Executive Officer of the Naval Base where I was a Scout and recieved my eagle, most of my scout buddies enlisted, my best friend and hiking buddy was a Marine in the Gulf War, the buddy that got me into Scouts and taught me how to pack a backpack died in the Gulf War.

I'll let everyone here make their own decision regarding my respect and admiration of the US military.

We have had a few scouts earn this badge. I'm with onebearscout, use some creativity to complete the reqirements as they are intended.

The BSA has a long history of allowing Leaders to modify requirements when the requirements are not possible to complete due to certain constraints.

We ignore the OPTIONAL enlistment requirement. In a perfect world it is a noble goal to make the program more accessible to those who otherwise would not have an opprotunity to participate. The reality is that kids being kids, they want the badge and will do what is necessary to earn it and in that particular case it not only is contrived it is CRUEL.

As for working with a Troop or Pack that has disabled Scouts. Looking at all the requirements this is the only place that asks the scout to work with the disabled. I would think that if a scout could not find a unit that fit that description it would be acceptable to volunteer his time at an agency that works with the disabled.

Heck, get the whole Troop to volunteer and Shazamm, you are now a Troop that works with the disabled.

I think the main reason for working with a troop with disabled Scouts is that it shows the scout how different the world is for a person with disabilities in terms that the scout can instantly relate to. For example, Jimmy tied a Square Knot to join Scouts. John doesn't have hands or has extreme difficulty using his hands, how did he tie the knot to complete the requirement? Jimmy's troop went backpacking last weekend. John's troop has scouts in wheelchairs, can they backpack? If so how is it different?

As to the US Flag code regarding persons in uniform.

WE ARE NOT THE MILITARY.

We are Boy Scouts and Boy Scouts give the Boy Scout Salute to the flag while reciting the Pledge.

Walrus makes an excellent product and would fill your needs quite well although I'm not sure what sizes they have anymore. Moss also makes a nice big tarp. Both are expensive though. Height is just a matter of getting big (or small) enough poles. Campmor does have a discount program (I think 10%) for Scout groups, call customer service for more details. I have heard that REI and EMS does the same but I have no first hand knowledge of it.

WHOOPS!

I didn't read it correctly and did a litle search for "flag etiquette" here is what I found...

"When displayed from a staff in a church or a public auditorium, the U.S. flag should be in position of honor at the clergyman's or speaker's right as he faces the audience (the left of the audience). Any other flag so displayed is to be placed at the speaker's left as he faces the audience (the right of the audience)." -From heritage-flag.com

and ushistory.org

The Reader's Digest condensed answer to the question is NO.

Sorry for the confusion.

Webelos is supposed to prepare boys to become Boy Scouts. As far as helping them to understand leadership and the patrol method I have not seen a system better than what EagleWB has described.

As far as discipline in a Troop I follow the same system that Rooster7 does. It worked for us and has continued to work for years.

As I remember reading in my old handbook...

If the Flag is on the same level as the speaker or on a platform as the speaker it goes to the speakers right. If there is platform and the flag is placed off of it then the flag is placed to the right of the audience but only if there is already a flag on the platform.

I could be wrong about the last part but the flag always goes to the right.

A good site with Flag history and etiquitte is

http://www.usflag.org/

Tiny is right in one respect in that the owner of the domain can do what he wants with the domain. BUT this can easily be fought and won in court or the W3C (World Wide Consortium-the folks who create and control web standards.) arbitration. Essentially we have a legitimate site that has been in operation for several years and has lost control of a version of their domain name. Another person has taken a domain name that HAS NO RELATIONSHIP to the content provided on thier site and in fact works to the detriment and defamation of the legitimate site's purpose. This is known as a predatory practice. There are currently several cases where just this has happened and the predators have been forced to give up the domain name. Cybersquatting is essentially becoming illegal it is just that the victim needs to prove his case. I think our friend at meritbadge.com can do that easily.

To help him out everyone needs to send him an email of support and clearly state how many kids you have that use his site. By doing so we help him build the case that the squatter is purposefully preying on kids and attempting to solicit pornography to them via the internet, and that IS illegal.

If you ever want to know who runs a site go to networksolutions.com. Once therelook for the link to "whois" look up. From there all you need to do type in the domain name (i.e. meritbadge.org) and it will tell you who registered the name and some contact information. Networksolutions and internic control all domain names and anyone who sells a domain name is only a middleman.

As far as meritbadge.com he does give a way to contact him off his main page.

How about "Keep your politics off my son."

Or, "Exactly how many of you are Scouts?"

I especially like "Keep off the grass."

Sorry, feeling a little punchy this morning.

I have heard about it too but don't have any experience using it to ward off mosquitos.

As far as the cougar thing I would just make sure you don't have any loose ropes hanging off the back of your pack and leave the mousekatier (sp?) hat at home.

On the school uniform thing I think is important to say that some sections of South Florida have a big problem with gangs and drugs. The uniforms are an attempt to remove gang "uniforms" from schools. when one gang sees another it usually ends in a fight (if you are lucky)

Right or wrong? I'm not sure, but the attempt is a weak one because it is patheticly easy to "opt-out." Either get a uniform and everyone wears it or forget about it.

Hmmm... Perhaps I should have responded in the "Uniforms" section.

JM, I hope I'm right too. But yes you are right, apathy among the general populace is discouraging. But frankly if people can't be bothered to take a stand with us then I certainly don't expect them to take a stand against us. In my view the apathetic are a non-issue.

JM I completely dissagree with your last paragraph. We have more supporters than we realize. It's just that our detractors get all the ink and air time. Sensationalism is considered good news and the more outrageous the better. Most of the people who support us are busy going about the business of being productive citizens who do not want to bother others. Our people don't have the time to be radicals they are busy quitely making a difference in the lives they touch. In every instance that funding has been pulled from us by a subverted agency our supporters have more than compensated and typically exceeded what was removed from us.

Heartwarming story time-

One of my Scout fathers just retired from the Navy last Firday and at his retirement ceremony he felt compelled to mention in his farewell address that his eldest son had just attained Eagle. The response of the crowd was AMAZING. I have never seen ANYTHING like it. There was probably 150 people in the Base Chapel. As soon as the words came out of his mouth the applause came like a crack of lighting followed by a heavy downpour. It was sudden, sharp, loud and entheusiastic. Everyone was on their feet. I tell you folks, I will never again question if we have any support. It is there and it is strong.

This adversity is not weakening us. It is making us stronger. We just need to be sure that we never respond in kind or adopt the methods of our detractors.

Once again we find ourselves attempting to apply logic to the thoughts and actions of illogical people.

The bottom line is that most factions don't want to merely be treated just like everyone else (as they say they do.) What they really want is to be treated with special consideration because of the "great injustice" afflicted upon them. They blindly act as if no other group or faction has ever suffered injustice at the hands of others. Usually the ultimate aim of said agitators (who are almost always far removed from the original injustice) is money, an extremely poor balm for wounds to dignity, freedom and self-determination.

Yes, this is a concerted effort on the part of a few small groups to break down the few social mores that American society still has left. They intend to create a society where nothing is "wrong" and everything is "right". They are quick to point out that "as long you are aren't hurting anyone else" it's ok. Yet when faced with any evidence (or arguments) that proves (or attempts to prove) that people are not proverbial islands whos actions never affect another and that we are in fact a tightly woven cloth that when pulled too far one direction streaches all of us out of shape these people attack not with reasonable arguments but with malicious slander, retoric and weasel words.

Look friends, I went to college in the early '90s for a Fine Art degree and I was in class every day for 5 years with people that came from all across the spectrum from radical fringe left to radical fringe right. Take all the kooks and nuts that you hear about on the nightly news and compress that into a classroom for five years and that that is what I was in class with. I spent quite a bit of time debating issues with these folks and trying to understand them and yes beyond a shadow of a doubt they ARE trying to break scouting down and remove our influence on young men.

To quote a newsletter from "Act Out!" a very vocal gay rights group known for highly confrontational demonstrations and If I remember correctly it was the same who defiled the host at St. Patricks Cathederal. "It is time to shut down the boy scout 'Character Factory!'"

Why the bullseye on us? Because no other youth organization has as effective or long lasting of an impact on young men as the Boy Scouts.

I prefer to be known as a good guy.

Ever see "Sash Sag"? You know when a boy earns a lot of badges and the sash wants to creep down to his belt buckle?

Sew a button hole in the sash on the shoulder right where the sash passes over the epaulet (sp?-shoulder loop) button. When he wears the sash he can button it in place.

Viola! No sag.