Mike Long

SagerScout I would not have a problem with that at all. I'd love it if they all came and went at the same time. Unfortunately that was never the case.

The situation I had was just like you described. One Scout would come out Friday night and leave for a 10am to noon ball game. Another would be an afternoon game. Still another would roll up Saturday morning and leave mid afternoon. And so on and so on. My problem was not only with kids, even my adults would do this juggling game. I once had a trip where five ASMs and myself attended. I was only one who was there all weekend. The entire time we had the required adult leadership but I was going nuts trying to keep everything moving smoothly. Even my youth leadership was exasperated. Then parents have the audacity to ask why their Scout wasn't advancing as quickly as the Scouts who attended regularly.

Of course those who came and went took great exception to me and the PLC saying no more.

Juggling kids activities is definately a hard thing to do but sometimes parents and Scouts need to realize that you can't just chop up everything into small chunks and get the complete benefit.

Right on LongHaul!

I do the same during PLC meetings and SM conferences. I solicit feedback, positive and especially negative. It is the boy's troop and they need to be able to feel comfortable is asking for change. Most won't feel comfortable giving adults a bad review until you encourage then to do so. After all, where else in their lives can an adult be questioned or constructively critizied? For most kids nowhere.

Have you personally tried to bend the stays before? They are not that easy to bend on purpose. They are supposed to be bent only on the inital fitting of the pack so are pretty beefy. The stay thickness is designed to carry weight and I very much doubt that you could put enough weight into the top compartment to bend them unless you like to carry large quantities of lead. The only other reasion you might have worries over stay distortion would be if the stays were bent every single time you went out for several trips. That might weaken the stays enough to make them pliable but I most strongly doubt it.

Your pack will be fine my friend, don't worry about it.

Screenprinting WILL be a mess the first few times you try it but honestly it isn't all that hard to do.

Here is one of the kits I was talking about

http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/2164-AA.shtml

Most of the other screenprinting resources I found online were for commercial printers and would be a real pain to wade through.

My quick answer would be this.

If the financial situation was present when the the fundraiser were taking place and the scout family chose not to participate knowing full well that that was his only way to make it to camp then he's stuck. Sorry, no camp. Hard lesson #1 anything that is worth having or doing is worth working for.

If the financial situation was sudden and the Scout though camp was covered then the case has merit and I'd be willing to help.

Our Troop, with the aid of the Church's Mens Prayer Group used to pay the way for any scout to go to summer camp that needed assistance. We no longer do that.

What ended up happening was several scouts camp fees were covered and then they blew off camp FOR NO GOOD REASON. Just didn't show when the van pulled out for camp and when called said "nevermind." The money was not refundable at that point and it was too late to get someone else to go in the scouts place.

The committee discussed that matter at length and decided that we won't give handouts anymore. You want to go to camp? Earn it by taking part in fundraisers, if the scout doesn't earn all the money at a troop fundraiser to attend camp the troop will cover the remainder. What matters to us it that the Scout makes a solid effort to earn the money.

Now the question should be: "What if the Scout joins after the fundraisers are over?" We do try to give Scouts the benefit of the doubt, after all a Scout IS trustworthy and as scouts we should take him at his word. That is a scenario where we would consider a Troop campership but I would want to see some effort expended by the Scout to earn it. How? Well how about washing the Troop gear trailer and Church Vans after camping trips or something similar?

Yes there are legitimate reason why some kids can't do fundraisers and only one put forward that I would find acceptable is the Sick relative one. Unsupportive parents, well, the Scout needs to show some initiative. I've pickup up several boys so they could participate because his parents were too lazy to support their child. Family financial problems are one of the key reasons that we do fundraisers. It is a reason TO participate NOT a reason to abstain. The no one to sell to is an issue where the Troop needs to look at what kinds of fundraisers they are doing. We don't normally sell anything door to door. We are no longer comfortable with that. We try to do fundraisers where the boys are all working in a group. Mom and Dad saying "NO" is not an acceptable one to me. That teaches the Scout that he doesn't have to work for anything and that everything will be provided to him. A very dangerous lesson that breeds character deficiencies and undermines the values we are trying to instill in our Scouts.

That being said, I'm not a hard case, I want all boys to go to camp and I won't let a scout suffer because of a lack of money or lack of quality parenting. When it comes right down to it all I want to see is the Scout to make an honest effort to get himself to camp. I'll take care of the rest.

Craig be very careful about setting hard policies, they tend to lock you into a track where you can't help kids who legitimatly need help. I would suggest the flexible approach and consider each on a case by case basis. I would also only discuss the situation in Committee and I would not use the Scout's real name to aviod any embarrassment to the family in need. It's hard enough to ask for help and it is not necessary for the whole troop to know about it.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

Well Ed, I for one hate when kids show up late and leave early on campouts. It is extremely hard for me to keep track of the boys. Some scouts do fine with it but most folks despite SEVERAL discussions can't seem to be bothered to inform me of their comings and going and never seem to arrive on time and it always disrupts the program.

I don't outlaw it but I'm not going to encourage it.

Now that to me would be a reasonable restriction.

I agree with Ed completly

I'd ask them about it and to explain why it's necessary.

The only restrictions I ever impose on eligability for trips is for high adventure or because of behaviour issues.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

As a former master screenprinter I've completly researched the copyright issues on this one.

You may use any scout branding (logos, slogans, whatever) on anything that your troop produces to be used as troop gear. Just just the logo properly. (OA stuff for OA member only ect.) In a nutshell you can use the BSA logos for your shirts, hats or whatever. You just can't commercially sell items with the BSA logo on them. Not to say that you can't charge the scouts for costs incurred in making troop articles, you can.

As far as printing shirts you might want to consider screenprinting them yourself. I learned screenprinting in highschool and printed my troop's shirts at a troop meeting. It made for a pretty cool activity and everyone got to take part.

Do a little searching on the web and you can find several cheap kits that will work fine.

Basicly all you need is:

A screen- build a frame out of 1x2s and stretch screen mesh over it (the mesh you will need to get somewhere that supplies printers) and staple it down. You might want to see if you could buy an old screen from a sympathetic printer.

A squeege- Back in the day I've printed with window squeegees. Sloppy but they work.

Waterbased textile ink- Speedball is a good brand.

A stencil- There are many ways to make one and I'd be here all day explaining the different types. Once again search the web first and ask me questions. Your best bet is laquer stencil.

A piece of plywood about the size of a shirt

shirts

masking tape

Process-

Make a stencil and adhere it to your screen and use the masking tape to cover the areas of the screen that you don't want to print, especially the sides of the screen. Ink will try to push out at the edges and make a mess. Be sure the tape is applied smoothly.

Load the screen with ink.

Test print on paper or an old shirt. Put ink in the screen and load your squeegee. Pull the squeegee across the screen using firm pressure and a steady draw. DO NOT STOP IN THE MIDDLE OF THE PRINT. That will cause smearing. If the print gets blurry or smears wipe the back of the screen to clean it and test print until clean. Keep a mister of water handy and if the ink strats to dry in the screen lightly mist the screen and test print again.

When you get a clean print put a shirt on your board line up the screen to put your image where you want it and print.

CAREFULLY remove the shirt from the board place shirt on a clothes hanger and hang to dry.

When the ink is dry place a piece of newspaper over the print and iron with a med/hot iron throughly.

When done printing hose out the screen with water and carefully scrub out the excess ink. If you get the screen nice and clea you can use it again and again.

I'd be glad to help if you go this route (check out my profile to get our troop site, my email is there)

I can see and agree with age and/or rank requirements for High Adventure or other activities where physical size and experiece/maturity are necessary, but a Klondike Derby? Is it a High Adventure styled Derby?

That sounds like a troop or troop leader adding requirements.

All the JLT's I've seen here are open to any Scout who wants to go and learn about leadership. I prefer they go as soon as they can.

I once had some parents who wanted to not allow ANY first year scouts to go to summer camp because of possible homesickness. That didn't happen.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

So do I, so do I.

Don't be afraid to modify gear either, make it work for you.

Wow, have any of you seen this?

Foxnews.com

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,48963,00.html

County Closes Bank Account to Protest Handling of Boy Scouts

Wednesday, March 27, 2002

AUBURN, N.Y. The Cayuga County legislature decided to close its $3.8 million account with HSBC Bank USA after the company shut its doors to local Boy Scout meetings because of the group's ban on gay leaders.

The county council voted 14-1 Tuesday night without dispute to withdraw its money from the bank.

"I hope it sends a message to the bank that if they want to fight with the national Boy Scout organization, go right ahead and do it. But they should not just single out the local group and discriminate against them," said county lawmaker Herbert Marshall.

"Our local Boy Scout group is an asset to the community," he said.

Earlier this month, bank officials told the local Boy Scouts chapter that it could no longer use the building as a meeting place after June 30 because the national organization's policy of excluding gay leaders conflicts with the company's commitment to diversity.

HSBC spokesman Kathleen Rizzo Young said Wednesday that the bank did not intend to change its position. She declined any further comment about the county's action, citing the bank's policy on customer confidentiality.

Young also stressed that HSBC has "a strong presence of community involvement and support" in the communities where it operates. "This has gotten a lot of attention ... but there is a bigger picture," she said.

The local council, with approximately 2,000 Scouts, has rented a 1,200-square-foot space in the bank on a month-to-month basis since 1993. It uses the space for administrative offices, a retail supply store and training room in the bank, Marshall said.

Cayuga lawmakers acknowledged that their protest action was purely symbolic and would have no financial impact on the corporation.

HSBC Bank USA, based in Buffalo, is the countrys 11th largest holding company with $87.6 billion in assets. It has 420 branches in New York as well as 13 other branches in Florida, Pennsylvania and California and is a wholly-owned subsidiary of the London-based HSBC Holdings, with 6,500 offices in 78 countries.

Young said she was not aware of any other similar situations involving the bank.

"We are rarely in the landlord business. Most of our buildings do not have rentable space," she said.

Since the bank's decision, at least two Auburn churches and the Town of Throop also have pulled their money totaling about $752,000 from HSBC.

On Thursday, Auburn city lawmakers will consider a similar move, but Mayor Melina Carnicelli said she would vote against such action. The city has between $5 million and $10 million in HSBC.

She called it "blatantly inappropriate" for "two business reasons." First, she sees the situation as a landlord-tenant dispute. More importantly, she said the city should not arbitrarily decide to withdraw millions of dollars without studying the financial ramifications for the city and its taxpayers.

The groundswell of local support has been overwhelming, said Don Grillo, the local council's executive director.

"We're not going to put them out of business, but I think people have felt very strongly to show their concern for the well-being of Scouting," Grillo said.

Gregg Shields, a spokesman for the National Council of the Boys Scouts of America, said similar situations involving the Scouts' policy have come up "here and there, now and then but by and large it has not been much of an issue."

Last year, Syracuse University told the Hiawatha Council that it could no longer hold its annual fund-raising dinner in the Carrier Dome. The dinner, which had been held in the Dome since 1984, features national prominent speakers and is attended by more than 2,000 Scouts.

Shields said only a few of the Scouts' 315 local councils do not own their own building. He said he thought it would be easy for the Cayuga council to find new accommodations, adding that Scouts do not plan to alter their stance.

"We will hold to our mission, which is to help young people build character and make ethical choices throughout their lives," Shields said.

The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Awwwwww shucks.

Stop it, yer embarassin' me.

Thanks Korea but when I go to district or OA events all the other Scouters think I'm 17.

Last time I had a Lodge Officer start to order me around. One of my Scouts looked at the guy in utter disbelief and said "DUDE! That's my Scoutmaster. He's not a kid!" It was pretty funny stuff for everyone involved.

I guess I'm Senior when y'all can't see me. LOL.

Yeah if its raining during break down I use the "Cram and Scram" method too.

That zipper thing bothers me. I'd replace the bag with an oversized stuff sack.

I don't blame you feathers but the key peice of info is an email address.

I run my own webserver and mail server. I track IPs and have reacted to SEVERAL hack attempts. I guess I'm just very comfortable with the web.

I'll trade straight over a BSA handbook for an Australian one.

I'll ship to you, you ship to me even steven.

Cool?

Just email me mike@humanpackmule.com

That is of course unless Bob wants to trade, he spoke first on the subject. Dibs to Bob.(This message has been edited by Mike Long)

I'm more concerned with quick setup than quick breakdown. Just try setting up that stuffed tent in the rain. It ain't pretty, more often than not you will be sleeping in a puddle. Been there, done that, ain't doing it again.

I unashamedly fold. I've been told about the stuff thing and did it for a while but found absolutley no benefit over folding other than faster breakdown. My folded tents have never shown any ill effects from being folded and I camp MUCH more than once a month.

Nope, at least not that particular brand. I've used other brands and they will help water repellancy but most won't help with condensation no matter what the label says. The only condensation cure I've seen is ventalation.

I'd be more concerned with seam sealing your tent. I use any old brand of seam sealer and apply it with an oral syringe. It's much cleaner than a brush although you will need to keep one handy when seam sealing to level out heavy deposits of sealer.

Huh, same thing here.

SQL errors.

With the new way of identifying members it is now very easy to learn a little more about each other through our profiles. Some of us have nothing in our profiles and I would be very appeciative if we could all take a little time to update them.

Think about it folks. If we know where we are all at we could support one another if any of us want to take our scouts on a long trips or get current local information.

If anyone is going to Seabase or Florida they are welcome to stop in and Troop 623 would be glad to host you on your way down.

I have seen the condition described but I can't say if it is more prevalent or less today.

I kinda liked being Senior.

"...I have heard rumors that National is dropping the photo requirement that Boy's Life has for full BSA uniforms for any group doing high adventure outings..."

Now that IS funny.

I wonder how many of the folks who implemented that policy ever backpacked with those little buttons digging holes in their shoulders all week. I gave it up after a weekend and it took years for the scars to go away.

I can see bringing class A's for a photo op but not on trail use.

Cool stuff on the zip t's John.

Thanks.

The guys like her as she is fearless with critters and has a huge knowledge of plants and animals. She's a trooper.

I personally have never been to Rainy either but the Troop went two years ago and loved it. Too nasty hot to do Summer Camp in Florida. I'm going this year and am looking forward to it.

Sctmom, yes Cumberland is hard to get reservations but not harder than anyplace else that's popular. We usually get ours about 6 to 4 months out.

"too hard to get reseverations" means "too lazy to get reseverations".

Some photos for your enjoyment.

2002 http://www.troop623.com/cumberland02.htm

2001 http://www.troop623.com/cumberland01.htm