BadenP

Callay

As far as your last post, what a load of crap from a radically right winged website with no credibility or verifiable ststistics, just reporting falsehoods as facts. Yet why should that surprise me since almost all of your posts are like that.

WOW, after reading all these posts I guess my district is a lot better off than most of yours. In addition being in Venturing there is rarely anything for crews on a district or council basis unless the crews leadership makes it happen. What has happened in the BSA to have allowed this dysfunctionalism to become so prominent a problem?

When I was a DE each of my districts had a klondike derby, spring camporee, and a special event for the boy scouts every year, the cubs had a day camp, cub olympics or bike trip, district PWD, and their own special event, and the explorers/sea scouts had a rendevous, backpacking trip or whitewater trip, and they helped out at the cub and troop events. We always had bigger attendance than expected at each event. That was 20 years ago. What has happened?

Our district and council venturing crews in my current council do one big summer event together and one or two smaller scale events, all planned by the VOA without any support from council or district. Our crew is very large and has been self dependent for a long while now

Eagle 732

I understand your problems with your DE/council/district but remember they are just the political side of scouting. Total isolation will eventually lead to stagnation and a stale program, which will lead to kids dropping out, and in a small troop like yours that would be disasterous. One valid point SP has shown in this thread is that without a functioning and healthy district and council the scouting experience for both the youth and adults will be severely limited and probably not too much fun. I know this may be debated by some but IMO no unit leader or leaders alone can deliver a truly complete scouting experience to their youth. Instead what you get is a distict/council with small units, huge turnovers in both leaders and youth, and an overall poor quality scouting program.

Eagle 732

The only problem with your approach is that your unit will become isolated from associating with other scouts and experiencing larger scouting events, and that would be sad for your boys. Scouting is a brotherhood. Our venturing crew is totally self dependent, yet we do district and council events with the other crews every year because we believe this kind of association is not only good and fun for the teens but they get to see what other crews are doing and to make new friends, which IMO is also a vital part of the scouting experience. Twenty of our crew went to the 2010 Jamboree for two days, as visitors, and were able to meet and associate with other Venturers from all over the country, and a group of foreign Venturers. They still talk about what a blast they had.

So while it is good to be independent and self contained, it is not good to isolate your boys from the larger scouting experience.

SP

This really seems to be the old what came first the chicken or egg argument.

Most councils I have been in roundtables are attended by 10% or less of all the unit leaders who will tell you they do not attend because there is little, if any, worthwhile information or presentations going on. District committee meetings are by their nature aloof from the units and the leaders instead focusing on a few annual scouting events, and listening to reports from the D. Commish and D. Advancement Chair, not really condusive to luring scout leaders to attend, because they are already busy with their own units program and problems.

Dean

Many so called youth experts and many scouters feel that the BSA has already become obsolete, and they quote ever shrinking numbers of members and units to prove it. IMO the main cause is that the BSA has long ago gotten away from their roots and replaced it with a weak, poorly thought out program that is too "classroom based and school like". Recruiting nights failing, units failing and membership shrinking can be directly linked to the BSA not really offering anything unique activity wise, a false notion that boys today do not like or are drawn to the outdoors anymore, a growing number of lazy and poorly trained leaders who have never camped in their lives and have no intention in ever learning any outdoor skills.

You ask any ex scout why they left scouting and the answer is usually "because it was boring and not any fun, and we never got outdoors enough." Our crew is constantly getting 12 and 13 year old boy scouts asking to join us because their troops programs are mostly indoor activities and rarely do they get to experience anything outdoors. After going to Boy Scout RT's in our district and council I understand what these boys are talking about, the era of the "couch potato scoutmasters" has arrived in our council, and our ever dwindling numbers of troops and boy scouts just proves that the BSA has really lost touch with our youth.

Dean

I hear what you are saying but you are just one individual scouter in one council and in one school district which does not reflect the nation as a whole. Recent events over the last few years I am sure have changed things some what, but you are not in a position to talk for all school districts in the nation. I was relaying what worked very well for me and my volunteers in two districts from 1987 thru 1992 in Northern California. Your tirade while based on your own personal experience really does not speak for all the country, does it.

Oak Tree

Unless you are in a unit receiving a so called grant I challenge you to put up anything that substantiates your claim. Most of that money goes to Nationals priorities not the units welfare unless you are talking about LFL.

I have to strongly agree with Lisabob's and Twocub's posts about SP's ideology and methodology.

Two of my close friends are very active in the Seattle Council and they have given me a much more realisitic viewpoint of what is happenning there, lets just say it is not the rosy picture SP has given us in this forum.

What I found interesting is some of the readers comments and the end of the article, including a former Queens Scout with his spiked hairdo, I wonder what Eamonn might think, lol.

Anyway like it or not this is becoming and will be a continuing trend among American corporations who try to reflect the current society viewpoint. Sad that the National BSA executives may have to lower their salaries in order to compensate, lol. I doubt much, if any, of those contributions ever trickled down to the membership base anyway. It will be quite the ethical debate at National if they need to revise their position to get these donors back or stick to their guns and see the contributions continue to dwindle. Good Luck Mr. Brock.

fred

Have you tried talking to your DE about approaching the schools for you? It was one of my duties as a DE to talk to school administrators each year so the volunteers or I could set up a display table at lunch or after school and pass out flyers. The DE represents the National BSA and school leaders were always open to talking with me. In some schools I had my GSUSA counterpart with me and the schools allowed us to actually hold an assembly just before lunch where the kids could see and touch some of the equipment, crafts,PWD cars, badges, etc. that they would earn as scouts.

I know times have changed with schools but with the right people initially approaching the school you might be surprised at the results. In my five years as a DE all the school districts were open to us at the beginning of each year. It should NOT be all on the volunteers shoulders in talking to schools.

SP

Yeah thats right blame it ALL on the parents and hold the council and National blameless, what a crock. Time to get your head out of the sand and see the reality of the situation. All organizations who deal with youth are accountable for their safety or they have no business being in exsistence. Scouting leaders and professionals bear part of the blame in this scenario for not coming forward and being proactive with known or proven cases of abuse. Instead the BSA was trying to keep things under wraps and for not involving law enforcement in their actions, which is still the situation today, unless the case get exposed.

The saddest part about all four threads on this topic is that due to some severe lack of oversight and accountability by council SE's and the National office this has mushroomed into the crisis it has become and has forever tarnished the credibility of the BSA, which IMHO is still the best youth program in exsistence today. The parallels to what is happening in the Catholic Church today because of the priest pedophile which has also mushroomed since 2002 is eerie to say the least. Both organizations have experienced severe drops in membership and contributions, both the Catholic churches and scouting units in my area alone have severely shrunk in size or disappeared altogether. All because those in power at the head of both organizations refused to recognize they had a problem and did not openly deal with it at the onset. If they had met their responsibilities head on at the beginning we probably would not be having these discussions now.

Frank

Answer a question honestly for all of us if you would. What gives you the right to randomly delete anyones post completely without any explaination and do so much more often in comparison with all the other moderators here? The other moderators will delete a selected portion of a post while you seem to enjoy deleting the whole thing every time. Do you view yourself as judge, jury, and executioner in your position as a moderator?(This message has been edited by BadenP)

packsaddle

I don't think Beavah hates you or wants to "see you in hell" in my mind I don't think he is that kind of person. F-scouter seems to have some sort of vendetta against me for a long time now, yet I do not hate him I just truly feel sorry for him. I just dislike anyone who is given any type of authority abuse it, especially the way f-scouter does on a regular basis.

I agree with Eagle 732's post 100%.

packsaddle

Just to remind you that in the thread it was indeed F-scouter who threw the first stone or comment so to speak, so I responded. IMO as I have stated in the prior thread that F-scouter in the eight years I have participated in this forum has time and time again abused his moderator status by removing entire posts he has disagreed with or sometimes just out of spite when he has lashed out against someone and they have responded to him. I personally can take anything he can dish out, however He has the authority to remove any response to him on a whim and does so repeatedly. Maybe it is time for Frank to be relieved of his moderator position and just be one of the group instead. packsaddle I feel your action was premature to say the least as that thread was discussing a very real and difficult problem the BSA has been dealing with for some time.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Anyone else notice that Frank aka F-scouter has pulled the thread on BSA covering tracks of molestors, and put it in restricted status? Once again IMO Frank has abused his moderator status after two comments in the thread were directed at him. Maybe it is finally time for Terry to relieve Frank of his moderator status since he continues to try to push only his own agenda, eliminating posts and threads that he doesn't really agree with or when he gets called out.

Merlyn

Only those with a very weak or no argument have to resort to profanity in their feeble attempt to get a point across. The problem for you is that just about everyone who is a regular here knows very clearly what your true agenda is and very few, if any, agree or even sympathizes with your positions. Using terms like moron and idiot, etc does nothing to boost or support your arguments.

F Scouter

Yet another personal attack from you, a deeply troubled and disturbed man. You my friend are the one who REALLY needs help so I ignore your insult since it comes from someone who is bitter, angry, and generally unhappy with life. Peace F-scouter!

Thank you Eagle732.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Neal

I have been a long time counselor and minister, and one of my degrees is in psychology. While I am no expert Merlyns motivations are really quite transparent.

Well Merlyn (theOP) once again got what he loves to do, point out weaknesses in the BSA, lighting the fuse, and getting everyone here to start sniping at each other while he probably is sitting back reading these posts with a big smile on his face. I really do not understand the perverse pleasure Merlyn seems to get with his attacks on the BSA, to me it is a sign of a very lonely person without many friends who needs to justify himself and is deluded into thinking he is on some kind of crusade for justice, when in fact it is just the same old bait and switch he loves to do. I guess you can say Merlyn truly is a master baiter, but in reality he is just someone seeking credibility and desperately crying out for help/attention.(This message has been edited by BadenP)

Merlyn

You may disagree all you like but facts are facts. Three teachers in my area alone accused of having sex with a minor were dismissed from their jobs and given 6 months community service, the monsignor story you refer to in your post given 3-6 years for what amounted to probably numerous rapes of young boys by his priests and probably himself, hardly punishments fitting the severity of the crimes committed, and don't forget good old Jerry Sandusky and that extensive and high level coverup. Yeah I agree with you more of these people should be put in jail for a very long time, but our current legal system has some serious problems of its own and a good lawyer can always find a series of loopholes to get their clients off or given minor sentences.

SP

Go ahead and invite the COR's and unit leaders to your district meetings every month, just do not be surprised when they do not show up. As I and other posters have said these people have other priorities in scouting and the district committee meetings is just NOT or ever will be one of them.

While your intentions may be good, the reality of how the scouting district truly works seems to elude you.

Yes Merlyn

The same thing is also true with the Roman Catholic Church and other religious organizations, most school districts, college and university faculties, administrations, and board of trustees, and any other organization that deals primarily with youth. So what is your point?

Are you proposing we close down the BSA, all religious organizations, all schools and universities, and every organization that works with youth? Not a very practical solution.

SP

Your view, while admirable, is highly unrealistic. A unit whose leadership fails to live up to what they agreed to do and what is required of them as leaders, committee members, and scouters, and allowing the unit to fall into chaos and infighting resulting in the youth leaving en masse has set themselves up to fail, not the DE or the council. No DE worth their salt would ever intentionally set up a weak unit. I never did and twenty years later all the units I helped to create as a DE are still active, even though the council has been merged into a larger one twenty miles away.

From what I have observed as a unit leader, committee member, and as a COR since then is that the scouting profession has become much more cutthroat and dishonest with the volunteers and in the handling of the councils assets, such as camps and other property. There also seems to be an evergrowing attitude of less than minimal effort on the part of scouting professionals in dealing with or even caring about the needs of the units or leaders in delivering the program in the field. To me this is the biggest tragedy of all and IMO are pivotal reasons why quality leaders are leaving the BSA, quality unit programs are becoming harder to find, and why more youth are becoming bored faster and leaving scouting sooner than ever before.

I thank God every day that our Venturing Crew is so rock solid in its foundation with a diverse, highly dedicated, and high quality group of adult leaders. Our membership is still growing rapidly with over 85 active youth at last count. Our crew has become the go to place for other crew leaders in our council to come for advice, support, or help with their own programs. We are basically self sufficent enough to where we do not even need the council, nor do they have anything to even offer our crew. The council though does come to us frequently for help with training and other council events.

So for me it begs the question DO we even need councils or professional scouting anymore with their total mismanagement of all the council resources?