AZMike

One of the arguments that is commonly advanced by the LGBT advocates is "well, the boys are okay with including gays, so we should do what they want." Leaving aside the argument that "all boys" or even a majority favor that, I'd be curious to know what the boys in scouting want, as opposed to their moms and dads who want to include their daughters, or hold an ideal of female inclusion in all activities. Some (possibly older) boys might favor it, but maybe not. Even if you are at the age where all you can think about is girls, there's a lot to be said for carving out a place in your life where

What is the 3rd G? The Godless?

Wait...if the the future is here now, then wouldn't today be tomorrow? And if have to get on board tomorrow to be on time, if I get left behind then it will still be tomorrow and I will have a chance to get another ticket the day after.

I don't think an agency funded by billions in cookie sales will give up the fight so easily, my friend. Do not underestimate their power.

Oh, yeah. As part of the male tribal inculcation into the next generation of the Primary Male Values (Competency, Commitment, Compassion, and Composure), we are more likely to encourage a heavy dose of Male Stoicism as part of the latter value. We honor and respect those men who dealt with a severed thumb from a band saw by re-attaching the lost digit with black electrician's tape and carrying on as if nothing in particular just happened. It's all of a piece with the Medal of Honor winner who was buried down the block from me as a kid and who crawled 20 miles - TWENTY MILES! - after being shot

Really? How about some examples? Advantages of Male Teachers A 2006 study in Education Next, by the Hoover Institute, and conducted by Thomas Dee, an economics professor at Swarthmore College, found that boys learn better from male teachers. The study states that having a teacher of the opposite sex hinders a boy's academic progress. Boys were less likely to be seen as disruptive in a class with a male teacher. Male teachers are more likely to include games and competition in their teaching methods. Advantages of Female Teachers The same 2006 study conducted by Thomas Dee found t

Some analysis from the anti-Resolution folks on why, from their POV, this is bad policy: AN OPEN LETTER TO BSA DELEGATES: TEN REASONS TO “VOTE NO†A Legal and Ethical Analysis of the Proposed BSA Resolution to Allow Open Homosexuality in the Boy Scouts 1) The proposed BSA resolution is logically incoherent and morally and ethically inconsistent. Under the proposed change in policy, open homosexuality would be officially consistent with the Scouting code throughout a Boy Scout’s life until the moment he turns 18, when it suddenly becomes a prob

Yeah, the study addresses bisexuals. Both bisexuality and homosexuality as self-descriptions in adolescents are remarkably unstable compared to a heterosexual self-description. On your second point, it makes sense that gay people (that is, those with a strong identification as homosexual) have "always" known they were gay, just as those with a strong heterosexual self-identification do. It also makes sense that people who experimented or were unsure when young what their orientation was, but eventually realized they were heterosexual would be much less likely to share that information ope

I think that's pretty much all anyone writes about now in academia, Merlyn - whether someone is or isn't gay. Usually, you can make an academic career by claiming someone - anyone - is. Claiming they aren't really won't earn you any points. The sliding scale for gayness is pretty easily met nowadays. Some biographers have claimed Hughes was gay, others (like Arnold Rampersand) have written that he wasn't. No gay lovers ever came forward. He could have been asexual, and lacked a strong sex drive, or felt largely romantic but non-sexual feelings. Some people are that way. He could have had

So this study more or less supports your position. Why do you have a problem with it, Moosetracker? If the BSA is used by LDS troops to support their teachings (again, they have a unique relationship with the BSA), how is that the business of the BSA any more than if they modify summer camp schedules, camping times, prayers, etc. to fit their beliefs? Presumably, they wouldn't do it with anyone outside LDS. People go into the LDS knowing what their stance on homosexual behavior is. I'd also like to see some cites for the "millions" of studies you claim show that a SSA in adolescence i

Okay, RememberSchiff's comment has been sitting here all solitary and lonely-like for a while, so I'll comment. LDS's somewhat lukewarm support for the policy proposal may not ultimately be applauded by gay activists, for reasons that go beyond what many feel about the asymmetrical nature of the arrangement. I spoke to a friend who is an LDS Scouter last weekend who had an interesting perspective on the LDS's announcement, which he said has to be understood in the context of the unique relationship of the BSA and the LDS. As the BSA is the official youth activity of the LDS, it is u

I think that's pretty much all anyone writes about now in academia, Merlyn - whether someone is or isn't gay. Usually, you can make an academic career by claiming someone - anyone - is. Claiming they aren't really won't earn you any points. The sliding scale for gayness is pretty easily met nowadays. Some biographers have claimed Hughes was gay, others (like Arnold Rampersand) have written that he wasn't. No gay lovers ever came forward. He could have been asexual, and lacked a strong sex drive, or felt largely romantic but non-sexual feelings. Some people are that way. He could have had

Again, why do you think the executives at National in Texas were familiar with what Trekkies knew? If we were to draw a Venn Diagram for 1985 with circles labelled "Trekkies," "George Takei's personal friends," "The Hollywood Community," and "middle-aged BSA Executives in Texas," I doubt you would find much overlap of the first three with the latter group.

George Takei came out of the closet in 1995, 10 years after he became a spokesman for the BSA. I think you'll agree that Takei's sexual interests were probably not discussed in Trekkie fanzines in print before 1985, nor did Trekkie blogs or websites exist in 1985 - the Internet had not yet reached popular acceptance. (Sometimes I feel like I do when I have to explain to my niece why Wyatt Earp couldn't have just sent an email requesting help against the Clantons.) Takei has never, to my knowledge, been arrested for any morals charges, so a background check would not have revealed any sexual p

O/T, Old_OX_Eagle83, Moosetracker isn't a "he".

No, a sect is not " religious branch of which isn't large enough to qualify as a denomination." It is a schism from a larger branch, but in common parlance (and most dictionaries, including theological ones) it means the same as a denomination; thus, "non-sectarian" means the same as "non-denominational." You claim that "BSA is filled with strictly Christians-only practices such as praying before meals in a Christian style, holding Sunday morning services at camps, removing hats and bowing heads to pray, and saying "Amen" at the end of any prayer. Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, Confuci

When I read what you wrote, I think historical revisionism just leaned back and did a back-flip. The new paradigm for the Scouting For All movement seems to be that there was a warm Golden Age of Homosexual Acceptance in the Boy Scouts until the 1990s, when them evil Neocons and bible-thumpin' Religious Right members came and ruined everything for the wonderfully progressive and inclusive Boy Scout movement. Did you all just slip in from some alternative history parallel world timeline, or what? From National Headquarters, 1978: "Q. May an individual who openly declares himself to be a homo

In the U.S. military, you also keep your headgear on indoors any time when you are bearing arms, SSScout.

I would agree with you that those studies don't sound very impressive, Rick, and that just because an academic study or studies appear to support a particular POV, that we should place our faith in them because they are "science" or "S*C*I*E*N*C*E!" We can consider the data and studies and decide if they are useful, but scientists are as prone to political pressure, shoddy work skills, and bias as any other worker. The conclusions of the youth safety experts should be considered in this perspective. As the Regnerus study demonstrated, a sociologist making a research conclusion that criticiz

Many parents now see the sum total worth of camping is in getting that Eagle Badge so you can put in on your college applications. I think it is far more than that. Dean, I know you don't feel that either. What if the admissions director is a radical feminist who hates the Boy Scouts because they don't let in girls (excuse me: Wimmyn) into the organization? We better start admitting girls. What if the admissions director is a Jehovah's Witness who doesn't like the Boy Scouts because we say the Pledge of Allegiance? Better stop doing that at meetings. What if the admissions direc

Could you cite those for me, Rick? In which academic journals did they appear? What was the definition used for a "fundamentalist" in the research studies? What was the definition of "abuse" - physical? Sexual? Emotional? All three? What was the reporting basis - self reporting by those abused? Self reporting by the abusers? Police reports? Medical reports (and if so, how did the parent's religious denomination show up on the police or medical reports?) What was the number of cases used to make this conclusion? 3? 23? 203? 2003? Sounds like the very definition of junk sc

And so it begins...

I'm pretty sure many - maybe the majority - of boys would be comfortable with taking fireworks on a campout, bringing a Gameboy, and jumping off a cliff into unchecked waters. "Boy-led" doesn't mean we let them make immature decisions relating to safety, yo.

An Interesting if controversial read on the controversy in the link. There was a thread (which is probably dead) earlier by a liberal scouter asking conservatives to help him or her understand their mindset. This essay probably explains a traditional way of thinking as it applies to scouts pretty well, even if many will not agree with it: http://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/2013/04/9970/

It looks like some parents have filed suit against National over what they see as an attempt to pack the voting group in violation of the organization's bylaws: http://www.crisismagazine.com/2013/something-rotten-in-the-boy-scouts