awesome1_in_cc

I guess we should be thankful that we are ahead of the "curve" as we have both of our Troop's Leaders selected, the two Troops are full (all online registrations done and approved, deposits paid, etc..) and we have about 6 alternates already.

We have already had our orientation meeting a couple of weeks ago with the Scouts & parents for those selected and have them started on a payment plan to make the cost easier to handle.

Trust me this is a major feat for the council as in 2005 we where picking up scouts from other states at the last minute to fill slots. I think our new council leadership has really done a great job in getting this going.

Onehour,

My Prayers go out to you, your family and your community. I hope you all weathered the storm O.K. and that life will return to normal as soon as possible for you. I think your explanation of the whole event being surreal is an accurate one.

We live about 5 miles from the coast here in Corpus Christi and had to go thru the process of collecting the valuables we could carry in the car on Tuesday and Wednesday when the storm was projected to hit here in preparation for the evacuation.

Needless to say it was a very emotional experience trying to cram as much stuff as possible into a mini van knowing you may never see your house or the remaining contents again and that your community would forever be changed.

We were spared from this storm but so many of our neighbors have had their lives changed and even lost as a result of this storm. Please keep them all in your prayers and they are going to need it in the next few weeks and months.

YIS

I have the one that Troop_dad posted the order form for but instead of the name on the side it has my Eagle Scout year. Mine was a gift from my Pack leaders & parents when I stepped down as Cubmaster to cross-over to a troop.

Dang, I hope they did not spend that much for it!!

t4eagle137,

I have to agree that the open house approach will probably not give you the results you are looking for but I wont go into the numbers on retention and the like as I think that has been covered pretty well here already. The only numbers I will give you are 300% & 18.

The two numbers I listed above represent our troops increase in youth membership (300%, 12 to 40 scouts) and the time frame in which that increase occurred (18 months).

That increase in membership comes from two recruiting efforts:

The first is our Scouts Teaching Scouts program which is a structured program we have been doing for the last three years. The program is best described as our troop scouts teaching our area Webelos (4 ) of their WB activities pins over a 6 month period. This includes two indoor sessions (troop meetings) and two camping weekends. This program has worked so well that we have over a dozen Webelos Den leaders asking that their dens be able to take part in this years program which starts this fall.

The benefits of this program are that the troop scouts are teaching the Webelos their advancement (the hook to get them to come) while also exposing them to a Scout troop and how it runs. We have found Webelos who take part in the program have a lot less anxiety when they cross-over to their new troops then those who dont. Our troop scouts also benefit by learning how to teach more effectively, realizing that they are the role models for these younger scouts and also by being able to provide leadership to younger scouts, etc.

I could go on and on about the program and would be happy to share more with you if you are interested. Just e-mail me and I will let you know more.

Our second approach is just as one of the other posters has suggested. BOY-to-BOY recruiting!!

If you run the program as designed and have an active outdoor program you will attract boy and also retain the ones you do recruit.

I hope this helps!!

I have no ideal what my troop parents do while we are away to camp? I know the Scoutmasters wife (aka my boss) really seems happy when we leave though. I know she and some other mothers get together a lot and go out to dinner, shop and what ever else they do.

Our troop has two sessions of camp every year for our scouts, one of which is designed for the experienced Scouts (out of Council) and the other for our first years and less experienced campers (in Council) although both are open to all our scouts.

Every year we have a parents orientation meeting in May where we go over some of the finer points of each camp and also go over some very general information on how we (the troop leadership) will handle homesickness, behavior issues, etc.

We also cover what our expectations are for the parents and let them know how we will be handling the common issues that come up at camp and how they can help us with it when their sons call.

Last year we also started a daily blog while we are at camp to our Troop website. We post stories and pictures daily while at camp and our parents really love this!! I actually get e-mailed if I am late posting it asking where it is.

Narraticong Great story and thank you for sharing it with us. It seems like you had a great week with your scouts and that is great! I have found that moments like those with your scouts will keep you going when things are rough as Scoutmaster.

svendzoid,

I do not want to offend you in any way or squash your enthusiasm but I suspect that if you did manage to get on the CEB that you would not be "welcomed with open arms" by the current members. Maybe I'm speaking from my own personal experience with my local council's board and the way they operate but they appear to be an "ol boys club".

Just last month I was asked by our new SE to sit in on a popcorn "steering committee" to brain storm how we could continue the sales increases we have been lucky enough to have over the last several years. My invitation was extended as I was the ditrict chairman for our councils largest district the last several years and our district had pretty good increases each of those years.

I was thrilled to be invited and had a long list of things that I felt would help us (both the council and units) do even better many of which came straight from the unit leaders in my district. I had written these items up in a nice proposal format, brought copies for everyone to the meeting, etc.

As I arrived at the meeting I found that this meeting consisted of several of our CEB members, our new SE, our new ASE and myself. The first question I recieved was from one of our board members who asked "what are you doing here?" to which I promptly repled "I was invited...." I spent most of the rest of the meeting having to explain why I was "Qualified" to be there and the list of ideals ended up on the cutting room flooro to speak. As a side note, the ASE did ask that I send it to him as he thought some were pretty good.

For the record, I am almost twice your age and have been involved in scouting for almost 30 years if you combine my time as a youth and Adult leader. Also, as the son of a ASE, I have seen the "behind the scenes" politics that goes on in Scouting and the scouting program has never been a "one hour a week" gig for me or my family but a way of life. I have and continue to serve at the unit at District levels, etc..

As I said in my opening comments please don't be offended but you may not be welcomed if you do "push" your way (if that is even possible)onto the board and worse than that the whole experience may ZAP some or all of your enthusiasm. IMHO this enthusiasm could be better served in the trenches. After all, in the trenches is where the "rubber meets the road" and offers you the best chance at making positive changes for our youth, increasing membership, etc.

I will disagree with you on one point. I believe the only way to increase membership is at the District and unit levels in that a quality program = Increased members.

Best of luck!!

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ManyHats,

Tell your husband to stop worring about it. Yes, in my neck of the woods we have leaders with a chest full of knots but I promise that doesn't mean they are better leaders than those of us out in trenches.

I hate to say that because adult leader reconition is important but around here some of these guys are refered to as "Man Scouts". These are guys that jump into jobs, earn the award and move to the next job, whatever it is to start working on their next knot.

I have to confess that I have been presented several "knots" myself and many more I refused to sign the paperwork for as they are not important to me. I wear only one on my uniform and that is my red, white and blue knot which represents my Eagle award.

With that said, I would highly recommed your husband look at the requirements for these awards because IMHO the requirements for these awards should be the step by step for sucess of every leader to run a great unit.

Have fun and keep moving forward with the scouts in mind.

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DugDirt,

I completely agree with you that the FOS campain needs to be more wide spread and not just directed at the current membership which it does in most Councils I know about. Most FOS campains that I have seen have serval phases where they target a specific market in each phase. The Unit presentations are almost always the last "market" they try to reach but it is also the only one most volunteers see.

Let me also applogize for my "over the top" remark about "keeping your mouth shut". That was out of line and comes from 5 years of watching and fighting the effects to the program of a poorly funded council.

I wish you the best and may I make a suggestion to your Scout Pants problem. Maybe the unit could use their revenue from Popcorn sales to purchase these for the scouts. Just an ideal!!(This message has been edited by awesome1_in_cc)

DugDirt,

If you are ashamed to hold an FOS presentation every year then DON'T DO IT!!! But please keep your mouth shut when your local camp is falling down around you, there is no staff to support you and your local programs are basically junk!!

The BSA takes MONEY to operate just like any other buisness. What other organization can you join for $11 a year? Sure lets stop FOS and charge everyone $75 per quarter to be members, that should rid us of the nasty ole FOS. Downside is membership will also be null!!

Please don't get me wrong, giving of your time is VERY VERY important and for that I say thank you!! My point is that the BSA is a buisness just like anything else and it requires money to operate. My question is where do think it should come from?

As the son of a professional, I can tell you that FOS is a critical part of the job for the DE's and meeting or not meeting their goals can have good or negative impact on their careers.

That said, in our district the presentations are handled by volunteers and most of the time the DE's are not even there.

I have had the "we don't want to hold the FOS presentation" discussion with my unit leader leaders every year for they last 5 years as Cubmaster and now as a Scoutmaster.

Most of these unit leaders feel the same way as Gold Winger in that they already give a lot of time and energy so why are you asking me for more.

My answer to them is simple, it is called "Friends of Scouting" for a reason. Who else is going to keep our councils financially secure and enable the BSA to continue to offer programs for our kids? If we are counting on organizations such as the United way and the like to help fund the BSA programs, then we are in serious trouble?

Every year I look my leaders in eye and tell them straight up, If not us then who?

Keep in mind I WILL NEVER use "strong arm" tatics to get donations as it is a personal matter on to give or not and how much but I will continue to explain why it is important for us to continue to set the correct example for our unit parents and even scouts.

Trevorum,

So you don't believe that ACLU and other organizations by their actions of fighting the BSA in courts all over this country to have us removed from DOD installations, removed from schools that we too help pay for, taking our chartered sponsors to court to stop them from chartering BSA units is not trying to shut us down? Once a charter is lost, do you believe these organizations give a hoot if those kids find other units to join?

The BSA and our chartered sponsors are spending tons of money each year to defend themselves from these "attacks" by those who disagree with our membership standards and I guess I am simple minded because I can't see how the diversion of funds from the program to fight court battles is helping us provide a quality character education program for our youth.

On the flip side, with the amount of time, energy & money that these organizations are spending trying to "change" the BSA movement, they could do a world of great things for Americas youth.

I don't see this a fight for "what's best for Americas youth" because these organizations could be truly changing lifes with the resources they are spending fighting the BSA.

I have to ask the following question, where does one person's right begin and another person's rights end?

I certainly believe that these organizations and their members have every right to associate with those who share the same values as they do but don't I have the same rights?

And as far as the argument about changing with the times, I have to say no thank you. I don't know if it is the fact that our kids are not safe in schools, today's youth seem to lack personal control or responsibility, courts telling us how to raise our kids, etc. but I long for a time long ago.

Sincerely,

Awesome1_in_cc

Trevorum,

Maybe the word "attack" is strong, but that is my belief. There are outside sources that wish for the BSA movement to either conform to their wishes regarding membership or they want us shut down.

Thats is the simple truth as I see it.

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Merlyn,

I could not agree with you more!! Since you see it as your right to membership based on the BSA receiving tax payer money for the program, then I agree we should work harder to procure private funding.

Once we do that for councils nationwide, you will have no argument left.

Sincerely,

Awesome1_in_cc

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WOW!! I just stumbled on this thread and couldn't believe what I was reading. IMHO, Merlyn does have some valid points regarding how we get funding as an organization. We (the BSA organization as a whole) have to be above board and honest in our dealings, otherwise it undermines the whole organization as what we stand for.

I'm sure we all know that:

A) The BSA is a "private" organization who has the right to set its own membership requirements.

B) As a result of point A, we really should have no dilutions of getting funding from State or Federal sources but will need to rely upon those private individuals who believe in the program we are teaching.

C) We are under attack from those who feel they are being excluded and have a "right" to participate in our program. Last time I checked, the US constitution grants all citizens the right to pursue happiness, but not join the BSA.

Why are we wasting our time, trying to change people like Merlyn who believe differently then we do? We should be out in the streets drumming up support for the program and the values the BSA stands for.

I promise you that Merlyn can come up with thousands of things that the BSA has done wrong and will at every chance he has. But please remember that for every thing the BSA has done wrong, there are thousands more things that we have done right. We have influenced millions of young men over a 98 year history, but we have so many more now that need us.

Long story short, Merlyn has his opinions of us as and organization and that is perfectly fine. We should not be using our talents and resources trying to change him or challenge him on every little point, but spend it trying to protect the program we love.

My path forward from this is to send a check to Los Padres Council!!

Knight,

Great story!! As unit leaders, moments like that seem few and far between but are none the less sweet.

It just goes to show what kind of impact we unit leaders can have (both good and bad)on these young men's life.

Ekmiranda,

I too went thru something like this at the Cub Scout level several years ago. Granted, it was not nearly as UGLY as what you have recently had to go thru but the goal was the same.

Get me the HECK out of there after years of personal sacrifice, blood sweat and tears.

Being unappreciated for your efforts on behalf of not only your son but all those other scouts in unit whos parent's are too busy to help is one thing but it is really hard to take when they outright come after you thinking they can do it better.

My only advise to you is this, remember why you did what you did and who you did it for!! It will take some time before your bitterness of the last several weeks goes away, but it will.

The best medicine I found was to go back thru my stack of photos showing all the great times my scouts had and remembering that I DID make a difference in their lives. I can now look in the mirror and honestly tell myself that I gave 150% to those scouts and their families to give them the best program possible.

As I always say "Scouting is a great gig if you take the parents out of it".

Best wishes and keep your head up!!

DenZero,

I strongly disagree with your statement "It's probably time I give up and stop wasting my time"

As you noted " the program this year is much better than last year. Despite the low numbers, it's not that much worse than the average pack, we are trying to Do Our Best"

Just keep doing what you are doing and build the most fun Cub Scout Pack in town and "they will come".

As long as you have enough members to re-charter don't worry about the rest. Trust me I have been on both sides of this issue and there is nothing wrong with having a small yet well run pack. I was the Cubmaster of the local Mega pack for several years before crossing over and taking over as SM for a small troop.

Long, story short our Troop's CO wanted to add the Cub Scout program last year and so off we went. I am helping the new Pack leader's get organized, trained and have even taken on the role of Webelos Den leader.

I am having more fun with this new pack then I ever did at the mega pack!!!

Quality verses Quanity??

You keep your head up and keep doing what you are doing for your Scout's and remember to have fun!!!

Beavah,

Reading between the lines in Sources post I see the issues they are having as these:

First, the Assistant Scoutmasters and Scouts are frustrated by the fact they feel that they have no say in their Unit.

This I believe is a result of the emotional attachment the current SM has to the unit that he started. This is totally understandable as it takes a lot of time, energy and emotional investment to start any kind of new unit. This often results in a don't "touch my baby" attitude.

My basis for this is the following comment: Basically it is a He started the troop, he is the SM, he is the ruler.

The solution as I see it are for the SM and ASMs to sit down with the scouts and find out what they want for their unit. After all, as unit leaders we work for our Scouts and not the other way around, right?

Will this happen with Sources Unit, I dont know but a shared vision among the Scouts and Leaders is critical to the success of any unit as I see it. They should all sit down and ask the question, are we all headed the same way? Do we all want the same things for the unit?

If the answers to those questions are yes, then the unit leaders need to approach the SM and ask him what can we do to help achieve the vision!!

I believe the rest of the comments posted are more symptoms of the larger problem and as you put it they are like arguing' balls and strikes.

Source please correct if I am wrong, as noted I have been before.

Source,

It sounds to me that your SM may have a bit of a "delegation" problem and is trying to do it all himself including making all the decisions. Been there, done that and it didnt work to well for me. My Assistant SM's came to me and asked why I even needed them if I was going to do it all myself and didnt want their input.

Honestly, this got my attention pretty quick and we had a "re-alignment" of responsibilities for the unit leaders.

As part of this, we now have a monthly meeting of the SM and all the assistants to discuss the "educational opportunities" that may exist in the unit, share ideals and discuss items that may need to be "tweaked" in the unit.

Don't get me wrong, I still have to make the final decisions on issues but I now rely heavily on my team to help make these calls. We dont always agree on everything, but we now have open communication with each other and are better able to back each other up if needed.

I don't know if this approach will work for you or not, but it sure has made my life as SM so much better!!! I have even added additional ASM's to spread the "work-load" around even more and things on the adult side are running so much better since we eliminated the "bottleneck" which was basically me.

Good luck and please keep your focus on the scout's and what is in there best interest as may have already suggested.

Joined Cub Scouts in 1977, earned AOL, Crossed over to Troop in 80, Earned Eagle and aged out in 87. Stayed involved in some capacity ever since.

Only son joined Tigers in 2001, and I servered as DL, CM & CC (not all at the same time) until last February when my son, crossed over to Troop. During his Webelos I year, I volunteered to help the Troop that he had picked to cross over to and was asked to be SM of Troop in February.

Wow, it didn't even dawn on me until writing this that I have been involved in Scouting in some way for 30 years now. Still having a blast!!!

BrentAllen,

I probally need to clarify the situation a little. The scout in question earned his Life in February of 2005 and after doing so completed two terms as our SPL and also 1 term as a troop guide. During those times he was more then active with the troop by any standard. I certainly feel that he has more than meet the requirement for "the first requirement for Eagle is be active in our troop and patrol for at least 6 months as a Life Scout, with a reference to page 169."

No where in any BSA literture does it say that a scout has to attend 70% (or whatever number)of your troops actitivities from the time you earn Life until the day you earn your Eagle.

The problem I have right now is that our unit has several new adult leaders who have only been with the troop for about 8 months now who think he is "not active" by their defition. I totally disagree with them as does our CC who has been with the unit far longer then me.

"Are you going to give an Eagle to others who are in this boy's youth group at church and volunteer at the animal shelter and HH?"

Not a chance on that one but I also refuse let well meaning adult leaders "hose" this scout out of something he has EARNED based on their narrow view and knowledge of the situation. This is not something he is be "given" but rather something he has EARNED. He has meet the requirements as listed by the BSA and we are not allowed to add to or take away from those requirements.

When we put percetages on attendance for Ranks aren't we adding to the BSA requirements?

"Eagle was described in the first Boy Scout Handbook as "the all-round perfect scout", a definition I think that still applies. Does this definition apply to this boy?"

He is striving to live by the Scout Oath and Law in his everyday life and holds those as the compass for is life, he has over 100 nights camping during his 6 years with the troop, has held a POR for most of that time, still gets to as many Troop activities as possible to help the younger Scouts, is always found teaching or helping the younger scouts with their skills when he can make the meetings, so in my mind yes!!!

"If all your other scouts showed up as little as he did, would you be happy?"

Loaded question, depends on why they are not showing up. Which is exactly my point, having a hard/fast 70% (or whatever) gives you no room for evaluation of the facts. It makes everything Black or White and takes all input away from the Scoutmaster.

I would never advocate watering down requirements as defined by the BSA but I'm also not for adding to them.

I just present the Scouting program in my unit and try to stay away from "fine tuning it" in order to improve it.

Gunny2862

We are putting on a program for all our area Webelos I & II's that includes teaching the Webelos 4 activity pins. Long Story short, we have two of our sessions as indoor (at troop meetings)and two as outdoor camping experiences spread out over 3 months.

What I have learned over the last two years is that you need to put in just as much effort into marketing to the Den Leaders and parents as you do providing a program for the scouts.

The sad fact of the matter is that no Webelos can drive himself to the meetings so you have to sell the parents on why you are their son's best choice. You also have to realize that not all parents are willing to let their son's make the choice of which troop they want to go to. I have had so many cases of Scouts that WANTED REALLY badly to join our group only to have the parents sign him up with another.

Is it frustrating when this happens, well of course it is but you have to keep pushing forward knowing that you are doing your best to help scouting as a whole!!

Good luck and keep doing what you are doing as the tide will eventually change in your units favor if you keep doing what you are doing.

Just my 2 cents.

adanecito,

The problem as I see it with putting such requirements into a "bylaw" or other hard/fast form is that it takes away the leaders ability to judge each case individually. I guess you can go with an excused or non-excused absent but then we are back to a judgement call which is basically the way it is done now.

I do wish you guys luck with what you are trying to accomplish as it is a noble goal. I also sincerly hope that some Scout in the future won't get wrongly caught by these bylaws like what almost happened to your son.

Just my 2 cents by our Troop has stayed away from the bylaws although it has been brought up many times as Im sure it has in most Troops. Typically I see that new leaders in my unit are the first ones to bring up attendance requirements for the Scouts in the Troop. I as SM am dead set against it and prefer and agree that Scouts should be treated as individuals and each case looked at on its own merits.

Case in point, I have a scout right now that is close to Eagle and is running out of time. That said, he doesnt attend many of the Troop meetings because he has a part-time job trying to earn money for collage. He doesnt make it to many Troop outings anymore, because he is really active in his Youth group at Church, volunteers his time at both the local animal shelter and Habitat for Humanity, etc.

If our unit had a fast/hard requirement for attendance, this young man would be declined (some of my Assistant Scoutmasters already want to do this) for lack of attendance even though this young man is doing exactly what we Scout Leaders have been teaching him was the right thing to do for years.

Should I punish him for making his community a better place to live or for earning his own way or maybe because he is being faithful to his Church and religious beliefs?

No need to answer as I already know the answer, I will have no problem with or lose any sleep when the day comes to recommend him for the rank of Eagle.

I sincerely hope that all my Scouts someday have these kinds of attendance problems as it will be a much better world!!

LisaBob,

Maybe it is just me but I really fell that any Troops best recruiting chance will come from the Webelos Level. Yes, some Scouts will recruit their friends but if a Troop depends on that method they are in trouble.

IMHO, most Troops need to do a better job of interacting with their local packs and providing joint activities for the two groups.

I really hate that you worked so hard and did not get the response you had hoped for.

On the other end of the spectrum our Troop held it''s first session of a program we call "Scouts teaching Scouts" last night and had close to 40 Webelos in attendance.

The readers digest version of the program is that Scouts from our Troop actually teach the Webelos their Activity pin requirements which gives the WDL a night off so to speak. Last night was the Readyman activity pin and the WDL and all the Scouts seemed to have great experience.

Keep your head up and keep at it as I''m sure you will find something that will grab their attention!!