00Eagle

The as-intended and correct (IMHO) way of giving a West is in someone else's name as a way to honor someone with a knot/award when there's no other honor or award appropriate (i.e. not Founder's Award, DAM, SB worthy).

My lodge gave a few out at the banquet. My council recognized members of the Youth Executive Committee (kind of like a VOA, but not restricted to Venturing) with West Fellowships as well.

Actually that's on my list of things to do. One of the courses I took at Commissioner Conference was Commissioner-District Operating Committee partnering. I had no particular interest in this class but there really wasn't anything good being offered in this time period. I do plan on attending one DOC meeting as I realized I did not know who most of the DOC was (aside from the Key 3). When I ran my merit badge event I knew most of the DOC (chair, commissioner, advancement, training, day camp, FOS, etc.) having pitched the idea at DOC meetings.

I've realized I know the DChair (he's also a UC), DComm, Boy Scout Program Chair, Publicity Chair but not any of the V/C's. I probably do know some of them, just don't know that's another hat they're wearing (I probably know them as a commissioner I see at commissioner meetings, or a scoutmaster I see at round table). I know the DAC's name but only because it's on the council advancement page. I don't know him personally, yet.

Hi y'all. I figured I'd introduce myself. Like many newly here, I had a bit of an issue getting the site to allow me to join until last month. I'd been trying since November.

I am one of those dreaded young (29 y/o) single scouters, but that's never been a problem as I usally have people seeking me out to put me to work.

I finished my Eagle at the last possible minute right before going to college. While in college I pledged Alpha Phi Omega National Service Fraternity. We assisted a local cub scout pack every week. In my later years I served as Scouting chair for the chapter and started a merit badge college. In my senior year I was the TCDL for the pack (backed up by another brother/eagle scout). Also reactivated in OA (I was sash and dash) just before turning 21 and was named chapter youth member of the year. Got brotherhood just after turning 21.

After coming home from college I tried to come back as ASM in my home troop, but it was too adult run (Webelos III) with about 5 new scout patrols (large crossover) and they didn't seem willing to listen to my ideas. They still remembered me from when I was a kid, didn't do in troop JLT, and had adult planned campouts. I took a step back and also work got in the way (retail job followed by call center job both with evening hours). A few years later I did find the time to volunteer again (the troop grew up a bit) but that was cut short as I moved away to start a new job. I bounced around a bit by going on a three eyar rotational assignment and with evenening and olnine grad courses, again took some time off from scouting.

Now that I've stopped moving around (I hope) I came back as a unit commissioner after a 4 year hiatus and just recently reached out again to Alpha Phi Omega (I had met a brother at a scout event) and ended up as a Sectional Scouting/Youth Services Coordinator covering 7 chapters, an active alumni association, three BSA councils, and two GSUSA councils. I immediately decided to stay at two assigned units (one pack, one troop) and not add any until I had a better feel of what I committed to with APO.(This message has been edited by 00eagle)

dfolson, I disagree somewhat. I realize Venturing may be different and I have no first-hand expereince with the program: I was a Cub Scout, Boy Scout, leader in both programs and serve as commissioner to pack and a troop.

But I view the Commissioner role as coach/mentor/friend and confidant of the unit leaders and committee to guide them on using the scouting program effectiviely. The crew advisors are there to guide and work with the president and other youth officers.

But I agree with you on training. A commissioner should have the same level of training as is required for his unit leaders: both to be on the same page and to be an advocate for the training since he knows the content.

I have cubmaster (online), troop committee (online) and will soon take IOLS & SM specific. If I had a crew I'd take Venturing-specific, Venturing YPT, and even consider Powder Horn.(This message has been edited by 00Eagle)

Here's the flyer for ours, held last month (reps including CC from Monmouth Council were also in attendance).

https://www.doubleknot.com/OrgsRichTextImages/716/Commissioner%20Forum%20Agenda%20and%20Course%20Description%202012.pdf

Agreed fireagle29, it's not linked to JTE or commissionar awards (Arrowhead, Key, etc.). It may be on the unit service plan (i.e. monthly tasks to be done by a commissioners, a helpful hints sheet for "I have to visit them for their monthly visit, but have nothing for them this month").

For my assigned toop, I've made no mention of uniform inspection. I didn't think it was necessary as the SPL/ASPL conduct one during roll call (one point for each uniform item + handbook, usually 9 pts max). My DC says I could just say "observed SPL perform uniform inspection."

For my pack, I didn't bring it up until a committee meeting where the leaders mentioned that the uniform standards in the pack were slipping (pack requires waist up + belt, most leaders just wear shirts and the pack reimburses the shirt cost). They wanted boys showing up to receive awards in uniform and that was not happening. I offered the commissioner's inspection as a way to help them. They may take me up on it. I will talk to them at the next committee meeting.

it's been mentioned above, so I'll reemphasize: an important part of unit visits in good manners. I never appear unannounced (unless it's a district event). I always send an email a few days before.

I applied for Alpha Phi Omega's Service Corps, but we only have 20 slots (40 if we do half week shifts) and they will likely prioritze active brothers (in college). There's even reports of a rich alumnus subsidizing (beyond national's under 25 discount) the fees for the actives.

If I'm not accepted, and if I have an NRA qual, I may apply as range staff.

emb021 wrote "Someone who has been a SM for 3 years and has not been nominated would be seen as strange in my neck of the woods. We try to make sure that ALL SMs are in our lodge. Sounds like someone has been dropping the ball in your case. May be your committee, as they are the ones to elect you. I know in my lodge, we would have noticed a SM not in the lodge, and would have worked behind the scenes to help make it happen."

and

SeattlePioneer wrote "I would suppose the Committee doesn't realize nominating adults is something they can do."

I just encountered this situation. I'm new in the area (and to the lodge and council). I hung up my class A's in the closet for 4 years and my OA sash was put away for ~8 years. I came back in as a UC in November and the first unit I was assigned was the troop in my town. Before assigning me, the DistCommish warned me that he had to intervene in a SM-Committee dispute that almost led to the SM's resignation. When I first met the troop I didn't see any flaps around but learned they had jsut held the first election and ordeal in years so not everyone ahd a flap sewn on. But the SM wasn't OA because no one told the committee they could send one adult (troop size = 21). The committee is now informed and will either nominate the SM or the only ASM.

In short have your friendly commish (if you have one) inform the committee about adult OA nominations (and other adult recognitions).

qwazse & BadenP,

There was a precedent (~1954) for an alternative path to Eagle for explorers skipping first class for Bronze award explorers. http://www.seniorscoutinghistory.org/seniorscoutsite/explorers.html

If Boy Scouts were to become co-ed, I could see granting credit for Outdoor Bronze as equivalent (actually it's harder) to first class for a Bronze -> Star -> Life -> Eagle progression.

RememberSchiff (love the name BTW, I live not too far from original Schiff and grew up attending "new" Schiff (Wauwepex) --one troop in my district claims to be GBB's troop),

In the UK, girls have been eligible to be Queen's Scout for many years. Some are also Queen's Guides. Now that would be interesting: dual Eagle/Gold Award. The Network section (akin to Rovering in many countries) in the UK is open for 18-25, probably due to the fact that the Duke of Edinburgh's awards are also open to that age range. The higher Chief Scout awards also seem to track DofE levels (bronze, silver ,gold) and Scouting is a recognized path to earning DofE.

I think the biggest reason US Scouting hasn't gone coed is that we have Girl Scouts and not Girl Guides. Yes both are members of WAGGGS but since our national organization uses the word "scout" they claim a monopoly on all female scouts in our country.

I shoot CMP John C. Garand & Springfield matches and NRA High Power Rifle competitvely (or did until I moved in July, haven't been to a match yet this year--hopefully the end of April, Scouts also gets in the way) so I can add a few comments. High Power is a centerfire rifle discipline shot at 200 (off hand stage, rapid fire sitting stage), 300 (rapid fire prone stage), and 600 yards (slow fire prone) with iron sights. With my experience there I will share my technical objections:

If this is a new bunch of shooters, you're trying to teach and reinforce the fundamentals: Natural Point of aim & position (still applies even from benchrest/sandbags/bipod), breath control, sight alignment/sight picture (easier but still relevant for telescopic sights), trigger squeeze, etc.

One of the first thing shooters learn is to "call" their shots: take a mental photograph of the sights and target (in this case crosshairs and target) at the instant the rifle fires. If it looks good: the shot should be good. If not adjust sights. That's with match grade equipment where the rifle is expected to be better than a novice shooter.

With a Mosin-Nagant you add in a rifle that has a horrible trigger, horrendous recoil which will affect some shooters more than others, and its not known for accuracy. And the surplus ammo isn't known for accuracy either. This leads to a situation where the rifle may not shoot to call. So the shooter asks himself "was it me or was it the rifle?" That doesn't reinforce the fundamentals: having to guess whether you messed up the shot.

You also add in the wind factor at 300+ yards. The new shooters won't know if it was them or the wind carrying the bullet. I'm still at the stage (despite being an Expert class shooter--89%+ average) where I haven't learned to read the wind: I rely on chasing the shot spotter and having confidence in my call.

Again to reinforce the fundamentals they also need to know if they're hitting or missing the target. A steel target does give a satisfying clang but will you hear it that far with your ear protection on and five other shooters firing around you. If you missed, did you miss left, right, up or down. Can you see? Can your spotter spot the miss?

From a safety standpoint, I have no objections providing you have a sufficient impact berm and safe impact area (in case they miss the berm). The NRA may have some guidebooks on range construction standards.

I don't know about a ceremony but when I worked with a pack in North Carolina during college (my Alpha Phi Omega chapter helped out on a weekly basis) they had a bridging tradition.

Everyone bridged at the same time in May including the Web2s who had earned AoL in Feb or March (don't ask, it wasn't my idea).

Each level had a scarf that was exchanged: even the tigers in the last year (03-04) of orange t-shirts had a home made orange scarf with white border that they exchanged for the yellow wolf scarf. Wolves, Bears, and Web1s had the traditional yellow/sky blue/web plaid scarves. The Web1s who crossed the bridge to become Web2s received the Forty Knots red bandana as the sign that they were at the head of the pack. The Web2s crossed the bridge and received the troop neckerchief.

"Oh, I give up.... What are they?"

Leaders

There is no training award for commissioners. I think there used to be one. Only roundtable staff can earn a training award, but they can't earn a key. There are different requirement sets for the arrowhead and key for UCs, Roundtable Commissioners, and DCs/ADCs. CCs and ACCs can't earn arrowhead/key just as there is only a district committee key and not a council committee key. However all can earn Distinguished Commissioner Award for five years tenure and certain expectations for quality unit percentage and rechartering in their service area. For roundtable commissioners the expectation is to conduct a certain number of roundtables each year for the five years.

In basic training with the CC and ACC (past CC, also my district's CSRTC) told us that a good goal/performance expectation would be to earn:

Arrowhead within the first year

Commissioner's Key after three years

Distinguished Commissioner after five years (you can self-nominate as our CC reminded us this weekend at Commissioner Conference)

There's also a new knot out: Commissioner Award of Excellence in Unit Service (red background, gold border & knot). It takes two years to earn with expectations in on-time charter renewal, retention increases, and major problem solved.

basic The Arrowhead is a quick "you're on the right track" recognition for commissioners. For UC's it can be earned in 6-12 months after attending training, commissioner conference/college, 6 district commissioner staff meetings, and 8 unit visits.

The commissioner key requires the arrowhead award and three years tenure plus some orientation/coaching.

For DC's & ADC's, the Arrowhead focuses more on evaluation, supervision and recruitment of commissioners. They Key requires the arrowhead, basic training and three years tenure.