Kahuna

As is well known here and elsewhere, I have been one of the harshest critics of the run up to this Jamboree. I'm not a naysayer, but I saw the staff issues coming when they made it impossible for a guy like myself (overweight, but can carry my weight around) to staff Stamp Collecting Merit Badge. Having said that, I have heard nothing but positive responses from the kids and leaders who attended. Yesterday, I had chat with supervisor who came out to check my new air conditioning system. He noticed my Scouting stuff and said his two sons, 12 and 15, had just returned from the Jambo. They were very pleased with the whole thing. Yeah, they had complaints. The younger one didn't like the food and was not understanding of being unable to fire on the pistol range. Long lines and didn't get to do everything they wanted, but woudl they do it again? In a heartbeat, he said. And he would happily pay the $1800 per boy to get them there. So, I've come around a lot on this issue. They now have four years to work on after-action from this one. One issue I was not wrong on was the cold showers. If they don't fix that or allow some way for staff to live off-site, I won't be at the next one except as a guest. Presumably, though, they will by that time find enough qualified people to staff everything. So, I've become something of a Summit booster. Even sent them a donation.

As is well known here and elsewhere, I have been one of the harshest critics of the run up to this Jamboree. I'm not a naysayer, but I saw the staff issues coming when they made it impossible for a guy like myself (overweight, but can carry my weight around) to staff Stamp Collecting Merit Badge. Having said that, I have heard nothing but positive responses from the kids and leaders who attended. Yesterday, I had chat with supervisor who came out to check my new air conditioning system. He noticed my Scouting stuff and said his two sons, 12 and 15, had just returned from the Jambo. They were very pleased with the whole thing. Yeah, they had complaints. The younger one didn't like the food and was not understanding of being unable to fire on the pistol range. Long lines and didn't get to do everything they wanted, but woudl they do it again? In a heartbeat, he said. And he would happily pay the $1800 per boy to get them there. So, I've come around a lot on this issue. They now have four years to work on after-action from this one. One issue I was not wrong on was the cold showers. If they don't fix that or allow some way for staff to live off-site, I won't be at the next one except as a guest. Presumably, though, they will by that time find enough qualified people to staff everything. So, I've become something of a Summit booster. Even sent them a donation.

Yep! Everybody in the civilian world asked me about the weight issue. There's a reason it's an issue, but the media doesn't want to deal with that. Easier to say "discrimination again."

Very interesting analysis. Thanks for posting it. I particularly was interested in the discussion of the influence of boys on the Movement.

Welcome to the forum, mselber! I'm envious of your relationship with Bill. He was a man who truly devoted his life to Scouting. We will eventually get him properly recognized. Every time I post on my Facebook page about him, I get tons of responses from people who met him or wish they had met him.

acco40, I realize many people agree with you and, in part, you are correct because he did call for calm. However, I feel his comments about race from his own perspective should have been saved for his memoirs. He is, after all, president of all the people. The implications of what he said are that this is a racist nation (with a black president and a black AG) and that government can help us find a solution. I just think that is divisive. It plays to the race-baiters like Jackson and Sharpton whose job is to ensure we continue to be divided as a people by convincing people of color that they are victims.

Yeah, they screwed up with their stadium show live feed, apparently because of Three Doors Down. I was watching the live feed and right after Mike Rowe (a great presentation), they cut the feed "due to contractual agreements." Really pissed me off and I never went back to see the rest of the show. I imagine I was not the only one. You'd think they would know better, but it seems sometimes they can be very thick-headed, PR-wise. Either put that at the end of the show or tell folks in advance they are only going to see part of the show.

POTUS is free to comment on anything he likes, But he has a responsibility to act like a leader, not a divider. Obama is incapable of fathoming in his mind any solution that does not involve the government, our nanny. This latest is just typical of his presidency.

m the legal perspective, the Prosecution tried to hit a home run with a big time charge in Murder-2. They tried to prove Zimmerman profiled and had hateful intent to kill Martin. That was overreach, and a simpler charge should have been attempted, like Manslaughter. I think public pressure pushed the prosecution into a really difficult charge to prove. Beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm disappointed that Trayvons family was denied justice, but happy that media pressure did not create a conviction where the facts did not lie, and clearly to almost anybody who watched the trial, the State blew it big time.

 

 

 

Sentinel947

I attended the last two Jambos as an ASM and served on our council's Jambo committee for this Jambo. Unless something has changed that I am unaware of, visitors will only be allowed into a "visitor area" where they can get a limited Jambo experience. Scouts can enter this area to meet the visitors. Other than the visitor area, visitors will NOT be allowed into the Jambo area or participate in any of the activities. In the previous Jambos, visitors had access to the whole place and could participate in activities which did mean that kids who had paid a ton of money had to stand in line longer. The new Jambo model has everyone scheduled for specific activities on specific days and times. Supposedly, there is no more standing in line. You show up at your alloted time and do your thing. At least that is the plan. And all of that excludes visitors.

 

From the Jamboree Council Guide available at the Jambo website.

 

https://summit.scouting.org/en/Jamboree2013/Documents/JamboreeCouncilGuide.pdf

The Summit Center

The Summit Center will be the hub of jamboree activity set between the villages and the activity areas. The Summit

Center will be the only area open to day visitors. On specific days, visitors may pay a fee and visit the Summit Center area and experience all it has to offer. The Summit Center will be open to regular jamboree participants, but day visitors may not visit the base camps or activity areas.

The Summit Center will be home to the stadium shows, the military exhibit, Conservation stadium, the Disabilities Awareness Trail, Sustainability Treehouse, and all the various exhibits and displays. Also at the Summit Center will be Action Point, which will have smaller preview versions of activities taking place in the activity areas. Those activities will be designed by the same professionals who design the activity areas.

When I'm asked to buy a $35 ticket, I don't feel "invited."

Skeptic, I believe from what I read here that that's what we are doing. Most of us are just doing our regular Scouting gigs and hopefully not discussing the negative stuff except when it will serve a purpose. I certainly continue to support Scouting financially and by doing what I can to help out. We just need a place to vent our frustrations and hope that some of the folks at National follow these threads enough to know what we think. To me, it's kind of encouraging that this relatively small group of Scouters take their grievances here, rather than quitting to join the Honor group or just stay out of youth related activities.

Although I decided very early on not to be on staff again at this Jambo and have had very serious reservations about the way it is being run (starting with the basic that it is completely different than any Jamboree we've ever had), I sincerely hope that the Scouts and leaders who pony up all those bucks - it's not cheap for the staff, either - will have a really enjoyable experience.

If they don't, it will be another serious setback to the BSA at a time when we can ill afford it.

Those of you who are there with your Androids and Ipads, please keep us up to date as it progresses. I'll be following the official feed, but would like to hear from those in the trenches.

On the one hand: Of course it's a huge hole in the museum's mission to exclude GB. On the other; how many people go to the museum? I'm keenly interested in BSA's history, and I have no intentions to go to the trouble or expense within the next 5 years, maybe ever. How many fewer youth members will go?

BSA has never leveled on the facts of their history, from Seton's originating the patrol method and BP's plagiarizing it, to the Scout in the Fog myth. So, it's no big surprise that GB got himself written out of history by trying to stand opposed to the march of time.

 

The recourse is obvious: Offer the Scouting Heritage MB often, and include Greenbar in your Req 3 discussion on the evolution of Scouting's programs. I already use the MB to emphasize Seton and Beard over BP and Boyce.

And, add non-BSA histories like Men of Schiff and The Scouting Party to your troop library.

As to the "rules" about duty to God and their enforcement, I think we need to look no further than the letter of the council Scout Executive in South Carolina who resigned over the gay issue. His letter reveals that his Christian beliefs probably drove many of his decisions over the years he was a professional. He would be the type of guy who would find it necessary to kick out Scouts of uncertain beliefs.

The Declaration of Religious Principle is: "The Boy Scouts of America maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training. Its policy is that the home and organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life.

Only persons willing to subscribe to these precepts from the Declaration of Religious Principle and to the Bylaws of the Boy Scouts of America shall be entitled to certificates of leadership."

So, without getting into rights and wrongs, it's very clear that if you can't support "an obligation to God" you can't be a member. Without doubt, people have expelled over silly BS, but those are the rules.

Thank you very much!

It's very simple. The DEs either take names from the phone book or leave formerly registered boys and units on the books. They have to pay the fees themselves. It was easy enough back when I was a DE in the 70s and must be even easier now with computer inputs. As someone said, as long as professional Scouters are promoted and paid based on numbers there will be fudging. Not by all, but by some.

Book is on sale through July 4 for $13 at my website. http://www.menofschiff.org

>>How did South Africa get so far ahead of the United States?<<

I wouldn't describe it as "far ahead," nor do most people I know who have spent time in SA. However, they got there by rewriting their constitution. It's a plethora of specific rights guaranteed to the people, including right to health care, a roof over your head and on and on. Of course, SA can't pay for those things, so they have taxed the rich right out of the country.

As a Buddhist, I don't have to worry about the Ten Commandments, but my consultant on all things Judaic tells me that in the original Hebrew translation, the word translated as "commandment" could also be translated at "recommendations." Suggestions for a better way to live your life. In any case, it's obvious that Moses wanted to get the Israelites away from worshiping golden idols and other gods they had seen in Egypt. I don't think flags and pictures resemble those things at all. One of the problems that the Judeo-Christian religions have, it seems to me, is that the Bible was written by humans. There are many things in the Old Testament that are pretty much overruled in the New. Gets very confusing to the average Christian.

At the beginning of a 1937 Scouting personnel handbook, the author quotes from James Truslow Adams’ Epic of America,

If the American dream is to come true and to abide with us, it will, at bottom, depend on the people themselves. We cannot become a great democracy by giving ourselves up as individuals to selfishness, physical comfort, and cheap amusements. The very foundation of the American dream of a better and richer life for all is, that all, in varying degrees, shall be capable of wanting to share in it.

If we are to make the dream come true we must all work together, no longer to build bigger, but to build better.

The American dream–the means provided by the accumulated resources of the people themselves, a public intelligent enough to use them, and men of high distinction, themselves a part of the great democracy, devoting themselves to the good of the whole, uncloistered.

Scouting seeks to make the American dream come true for the youth it serves.

Was he right? Have we abandoned those precepts as a nation and as a movement?

You might post some of it in another more contentious forum.

You mean like this one? I'll give it a try.

That's why the employer provided health benefits started in the first place. In the post WWII era, companies were competing for workers and, since employee health benefits were tax deductible, it saved them money over increased salaries. Of course, it reached the point that it became standard and expected. Take away the deduction, you take away the benefits overnight, except where unions are involved.

This came up at lunch yesterday. It seems to me and the other men that this issue has rather suddenly reached a point at which the outcomes are inevitable. Whether it seems to any of us that gay marriage, gay leaders in the BSA or homosexuality in general is right or wrong, good for the country or not, it is going to change. A psychologist in the group pointed out the similarity to what happened to women in the late Seventies and the Eighties. People's attitudes about "a woman's place" just changed almost overnight.

What do you guys think? I'm sure many will not agree, but it's an interesting thought.