K1986

I tired that already, when the popcorn days are done at school they use popcorn kits that area pre-measured with the correct amount of kernels, oil and seasoning, you just cut the top off the package and pour it in. Thank you for the response though.

So I have finally found a use for all the silly popping corn we ended up with at the end of the year. One of my parents "forgot" it was at their house after a show and sell and we missed the return date for full cases. So we paid for and have 3 unopened cases of popping corn. Whatever it's over with, I already did my unhappy dance in the privacy of my own home for no one to hear or feel bad about; onto our plan to recoup the loss. We are a small group and 6 other small groups and ourselves decided to get together since only one of us owns a pinewood derby track, the other of us donated the space for the day, and our group is in charge of running the concessions stand for each group to come through in 2 hour time blocks and have our Pinewood Derby Races.

YAY! We will sell popcorn!!! (among other things of course)

Here comes the question, how do I pop it? I am one of those lazy people who tosses the bags in the microwave and the machine weighs it and pops it appropriately. Our school has graciously allowed us to use their machine as long as we clean up after ourselves, but I swear no where on the bag does it say if I need oil or how much oil to cups of kernels to pop together. I Googled it and got nothing. I didn't think I was asking too hard a question so I am hoping one of you fine people will bail me out and tell me how it is done. Make your instructions idiot proof because I apparently need it.

Thank you in advance!

I wish we had a separate place specifically for Webelos topics within these forums. Anyway, my Webelos group has decided to dive into the Readyman activity pin next. Each month I let the boys (with guidance) plan their activity topics and then give each of them a small job but over all the content is still delivered by myself, the assistant and our den chief. The Readyman activity drives me NUTS, it has for years because my problem with cub scouts is that the content is either way too simple and boring or way over their heads and impossible to teach unless just sitting there and preaching at them for hours. We did Readyman a few years ago at Webelos Woods because I thought it would be a better delivery than I could offer but it was worse, three hours of the boys sitting in chairs being told how to do first aid but being told they should never attempt what they were learning.

HELP! How does your group deliver Readyman in an informative yet enjoyable way?

It is my hope that they are eliminating the belt loops to put in place a different program that offers the boys immediate recognition for activities other than those they earn for their rank badge. The belt loop program is huge in my group, because it offers my den leaders activities that can be completed along side their regular program as well as gives us excuses to get all the dens together to play games and bond between the different age groups and it also ensures that each scout is awarded something each pack meeting.

So to answer your question, bad if they are just eliminating it and do not intend to replace it with another immediate recognition program. Kids need to see something for their efforts other than just a single badge sewed onto their shirt. I hope their elimination has something to do with creating a more broad range of activities that incorporate old activities and new ones like geocaching. Perhaps instead of the expensive belt loops that fall off belts, only fit on certain belts, get stuck trying to put them on the belt.... they are moving to a patch vest or sash. I know we have the red fun patch vest, but perhaps we will go to a blue or gold colored vest or sash that the patches will be placed onto. Heck, maybe we will go like the girl scouts and ALL of our stuff will go on a vest and the blue shirts will be come obsolete and we will wear a polo. (I am not voting for the loss of the blue shirts it just seems like we have been heading in that direction for awhile now.)

I try not to double as much as possible, I really want the boys to be proud of what they have done so we put a lot of time and effort into every single project. If there was a reason to double up like qwazse said where the work was so intricate and really fit all the requirements then maybe. I just don't like to rush the program because when you get done then what are you going to do? I hate feeling like I am reaching for things to do and not giving them a great scouting experience.

A few years ago for Pinewood I was wandering through my local Hobby Lobby and found that they sold race checkered bandannas. I bought many, brought them home and cut them in half so each bandanna became two neckers the same size of the official one. Then I took them to the meeting the week before pinewood and as a skill we sewed on (with lots of parent help) a generic pinewood patch in the middle of the necker. We took a two inch section of 1/2 in PVC and sanded down the ends and hot glued on a mini matchbox car. This was their "official" race day gear. It took a whole meeting and they had a blast!! Usually I cannot get kids in scouts for pinewood, they show up in jeans and a t-shirt. But this year everyone was crisp in uniform with their special necker which they continued to wear to meetings several weeks after.

For family camp I went back to the Hobby Lobby and got a neutral blue bandanna, cut them up like I do to be resourceful and took them to camp. The boys were given fabric paint and stencil cut outs of camp things (fires, trees, leaves, animals) etc. They were also given letter and number stamps. The only requirement was that they had to have our pack number on there somewhere and their name so we knew who's was who. They turned out great! We took our PVC and they found a pinecone and glued it on.

Here is the moral to my story, "Do your best", just like BSA asks. Try to get them all in official neckers, don't worry about hats most kids won't leave them on their heads. Have hand me down drives and shop your local thrift stores and yard sales, they turn up. But if you want to create a pack necker, do it! The kids will wear their uniforms more proudly if they feel as though they have had some control over their attire.

From the Webelos leader stance I can definitely agree that scrapping the separate laws and oaths will be great. I would love to see the Lion program run in our council, this year alone I turned away 6 kindergarteners whose parents were sure their child could join and brought them to round-up despite the flyers saying grades 1-5. Sure they are rowdy and short attention spanned but if they integrated it like Tigers where it was one boy, one adult and packs could get a really strong kid oriented leader I am sure it would really improve our scouting numbers. In my experience the younger they start the longer they stay.

As far as lowering the maturity of the pack, I agree it can create an even larger gap between the Webelos. That is why we run our Webelos program almost completely separate from our Cubs. We meet to do opening flags and announcements but then work completely independently. We run different field trips and camping activities.

The work books are pretty stale and could use some sprucing up. A lot of the same material is covered in schools and the kids get bored. The belt loops could use some updates too. Geocaching is a perfectly acceptable belt loop for cubs as would a few other activities.

We are scrapping popcorn this year, we have lost so much money or barely broken even the last few years. We have a grandfather who is willing to front the cost of wholesale Christmas trees it is also a bonus that we know the tree farm family. We have two locations to set up retail lots, and we are in a major city. My question; how many trees should we purchase up front? We are hesitant because we have been burned by popcorn and were only going to do 100 but the farm family is telling us in our city they can turn over 1500 from Thanksgiving day to Christmas Eve and that 100 won't last us the Thanksgiving weekend. They are recommending 300 as a first year trial with the option that if they have left overs we can always pick up should we run out. (We are only about two hours from the tree farm)

Has anyone sold Christmas trees before? How has it gone for you? How many do/did you usually order? What did/do you typically sell them for?

We really appreciate any feedback, thank you!

I am the leader of both Webelos 1 and 2 dens in our pack. This is my fourth year after having worked my way up the ranks from Tiger with my oldest. Now my younger boy is a Webelos 1 and the oldest is a year into Boy Scouts. I do the meetings with both age levels together, staggering the acheivements so neither group ever has to do the same thing twice except Outdoorsman, Readyman, Citizen and Fitness, which has never been an issue as I do the activities a little different each time.

Here is my problem,

My Webelos den is very small right now. I crossed a large group (seven boys) over last year and have a large group coming up next year (9 boys) But at the moment I have 2 Webelos second years and 1 Webelos first year. The divide and my question is between my two Webelos second year boys. One has been with me since Wolf Scouts, he has completed the 18 months of the Webelos program as of Blue and Gold at the end of February when I traditionally cross kids over after arrow of light. He is ready, very mature and prepared. He has met all his requirements including age and activities. Worst of all, but to be expected he is getting bored with the cub scene. The second boy started back in September and won't be age or requirement ready until April, minimum, because of his age, but I don't see it being until June that he has finished the requirements.

My question. Though I am sure they will both cross over, I don't want to chance having the first boy leave because he is bored by making him wait until April or longer. He is a good sport, I have him leading activities and he is really trying to stay involved but he is anxious to get over to the Troop where his friends went last spring. Is there a rule saying they have to cross over together? Would it be rude to the second boy and his family to see the other boy in the same grade go first?

I've never had this issue before, thankfully my groups have always been on the same path but this second boy started so much later, it is hard to catch him up. What does everyone think? I can I cross them separately or keep them together?

Thanks!

Sorry, it's been a busy week. So I went Saturday morning with my kid even though I wasn't scheduled to help out a new parent I didn't want there alone in case they showed up. Good thing I did, about an hour after we arrived so did they. I pulled them aside away from the cubs and explained to them that we had permission to be there and showed them the business card of the HR manager we had dealt with. They said they didn't care, had been granted permission last night to be there too and marched inside, I followed them explaining that making a stink to the management would only make it so that NONE of us could sell there. They didn't care, they restated that I was a liar and a cheater and that my kids were liars and cheaters. So of course I stood back as they made their stink and the manager on duty went and got the HR lady. She looked right at them and said, "I gave her group (mine) permission to be here" apparently the manager that had given them permission the night before didn't have the athourity to tell them they could sell there. She said it was my decision to let them stay at one door and us at another or make them leave. I told the HR lady that every kid deserved to sell popcorn and that our group would be more than willing to share.

We lost sales, we were at the exit door, them at the entrance. We saw ALOT of popcorn go by on people's way out. But I really did believe that they deserved to be there, just like I, the manager made a mistake and the cubs didn't need to be punished.

Overall the weekend was a success, cubs sold at their churches on Sunday which is where most of the sales came from, we did a bonus weekend selling prize (reach into the spooky pumpkin and pull a prize, little dollar store stuff) at our meeting on Monday to get the kids pepped back up.

I called the local council but haven't heard a word in response, I will keep everyone's thoughts in mind when troops start coming around to recruit to let that troop know none of my webelos will be going to them and why.

Thanks for everyone's support

Sorry, a little late on my response, I haven't been on here much in the past few weeks. I haven't had anyone drop out because of the policy issue that I know of, like so many have said though, people don't always tell you why they leave. *frustrating* But I did have three places tell me that they wouldn't let us sell popcorn in front of their store this year because of that policy. I know it isn't a new policy but it's been in the news alot and apparently some stores aren't going to put up with it. I thanked them for their time, told them I completely understood and agreed, it was just a shame the boys had to suffer.

So barely into the popcorn season I've made the largest mistake I've made in the six years I've been popcorn kernal for our group. I thought show and sell dates started today, Friday 9/28 and had one group set up for a local hardware store. I got a call about 30 mins into their sale from an upset parent. There was a scoutmaster there from another group YELLING at the cubs bc sales didn't start until tomorrow 9/29 and he wasn't leaving until they packed it up. Thankfully I don't live far away and headed straight over. I contacted our cubmaster and sorted thru papers and our council website and we couldn't find anything that had a darn date on it! Common sense said we always started on Friday night. Well I got there, and told the kids that since I couldn't get anything confirmed on the fly to pack it up and go home in case I was wrong, it seemed like the honest thing to do right? The guy had gone inside with his wife to complain to the hardware store and I ran into them. And they proceeded to chew me out, and about that same time the cubmaster called back and confirmed that it was in fact tomorrow we begin. MY BAD!!! I admit, I totally screwed up. My kids sold 35 mins of popcorn early and didn't make that much and if I could track down every person and give back their money I would. Here's the part I need help with. They (the guy and his wife) said that they would be back tomorrow morning to edge us out (despite that we have been on their calendar for a month) and that they'd make sure we didnt set up a table there at all this season bc we were liars and cheaters. I have show and sells set up there tomorrow and Sunday and tons of kids set to filter through. I have my kid and my nephew set up as the first people tomorrow, thank goodness and plan to get there early but what do I do if they show up? I don't want to fight, again, I admit that I made a mistake but do they have the right to toss us out? I can't find a number for someone at the local council that isn't a business number so I have no way of contacting anyone. How should I proceed? What should I tell these people if they show up tomorrow? I don't want to make the store mad bc they have been loyal to us for years and I wouldn't want to cause a problem for their business, they are doing us a favor by letting us be there. Advice? Feel free to chastise me for my mistake, I feel dreadful about it, but mostly I am upset that popcorn has gotten so competative that grown people in charge of leading our boys would stand and yell at other boys and make them cry! For heaven's sake we are all part of the same program and these kids work so darn hard!

This is a little off topic but still within the guides to post here. I've seen a couple posts about packs that make their own neckers. Our group has talked about doing this, we have the resources to make good quality neckers. (Thank goodness for Cricuit Machines!) But according to national, packs should not make their own neckers like troops do. I understand the way that the colors make them distinctive but it seems to me they just want to ensure uniform sales for continuing years. I work with what I would call a lot of financially disabled families and we typically award new neckers each year when kids move up and recycle old ones but we still spend $100 a year in neckers and slides when we could make good quality ones to award new kids when they join. What does everyone think? Can we go with our own and save some hassle or stick with the rules and keep buying them by rank?

I am celebrating five years as a cub scout leader this year, my oldest crosses to Boy Scouts next Monday I love the program and look forward to my current Bear child moving up to Webelos with me soon. This is my issue; I have a current Webelos 1 scout who is driving me INSANE! Like I said, it's been five years I've seen a lot of kids come and go, if anyone follows my other posts and comments I've seen what you all have seen, difficult scouts and crazy parents, *lol* I think it comes with the program.

But the scout in question crossed over with us last June, he started out okay, he just talked A LOT and I had problems with him interrupting me but without even having to speak with him individually we worked out group rules that helped solve the problem. Building up since about October issue now is that he is just plain getting mean and rude to me and other scouts. From activity pin work to group games to flag ceremonies and most recently Pinewood Derby, if he is not winning or getting his way he is calling people cheaters to their face, yelling at them, yelling at me, telling me "You don't care about me, you only care about your kid."

He refuses to eat anything that is served to him at camp or any other occasion. This past weekend at Pinewood the boy scout troop that sponsored the event served lunch for FREE (well by donation only) and the scout came up to me and goes, "I hope you know I'm not going to eat that, you know I don't like hot dogs but you let them make them anyway. I made my mom go get McDonalds, and you can't tell her that she cant bring it in here." He was right, I don't care what his mother brings to Pinewood, it was an open lunch hour break for families to use however. But I didn't need his rudeness AND it is NOT okay for his dad to leave camp go to McDonalds and bring it back for him to eat in front of the other boys.

I don't dare talk to the parents because he gets this from them, they drive me up the wall too! I am at whits end, I don't even look forward to meetings anymore, today I am trying to plan activities around what he won't get upset about because I DON'T WANT TO LISTEN TO IT ANYMORE!

What do I do?

Thanks everyone for your comments and support, I think we have a solution. As far as age goes he will be 10 when it is time to cross over to boy scouts a few years down the road. He only missed the age cut off of December 1st to start Kindergarten by 18 days, so he is already the same age as the current wolves. We have talked to his parents and decided that since he is done with his Tiger badge, they are going to spend the rest of this school year until June first working on the Wolf badge. We will not rush him through it, we will go at a good pace and if he gets it all done by June first he can be awarded it. Either way on June first he will become a Bear with his cousin and friends so that his grade matches up with his scout rank.

I know I can call my local council and find out but I was wondering if anyone knew the answer off hand. I was told tonight that one of my scouts will be skipping the second grade, he is a tiger right now in first grade. He will be moving right onto third grade next year. If he skips school grades does he skip scouting levels? Can he start with the Wolf badge June first and when he finishes begin working on his Bear? He is the only tiger in his den and would be alone as a wolf next year too, I have six current wolves that would be bears next year. He is very mature for his age, knowledgeable and a good listener. Let me know what anyone knows about how this works. I've never had this kind of situation before. Thanks!

Packsaddle-

.....AND?

By the way I am a History teacher, so yes, I am aware.

Scoutfish-

I don't usually hang out in the issues and politics section of this site because quite frankly it makes me embarrassed to think I am part of this great organization with some of the people that post on it. I was searching for something specific when I came in here for a college class I am taking when I stumbled across your post, and it made me think of a book I read recently that I thought you might be interested in. It's called Suicide of a Superpower: "Will America Make it to 2025". It is something I as a Catholic and a fan of our scouting organization found quite informative and inquisitive at the same time.

The book highlights your very statement about how America's government has long outlived many others of it's type and how how recent events of our governmental decline put us on the same path as others that have died by denying their founding, essentially bullying it's people. Says one book reviewer, "One nation under god, indivisible," of the Pledge is passing away and in a few decades an America our own parents won't recognize will take it's place. For me, as a leader of one of the most profound and impacting youth organizations in our great nation this concerns me.

When I watch some of the actions being put forth by our law makers I find myself preaching more and more at my boys that what we stand for as Americans and citizens of our God is what we must take out into the world. That we need to be good to our planet, that we must be kind to EVERYONE no matter their race, gender, orientation, religion, or whatever else you can think of. Because in my Scout Law "help other people at all times" does not exclude anyone (even if BSA as a group does exclude some). Maybe if we can instill these ideals on our youth deep enough, no matter what our government does to destroy themselves there will still be enough people left to rebuild ourselves from the ground up again.

So to wrap this up and give my opinion on your initial quandary, I'm not so much sure we are overdue so much as we are definitely on the path of the same rapid decline and so many nations before us and it doesn't look pretty. And I'm gonna get out of this issues and politics place before I have a heart attack because, well, WOW that's all I'm gonna say.

Happy Scouting everyone!

It's that time of year again! It's time to put together all the details for our big night coming up in a couple weeks. We have a very good sized group this year do to an extra effort at fall recruitment taking our pack from 6 to 27 scouts! Anyway, I've been involved with the planning for some years now and want to do something a little different this year, we've tried cake bakes in the past, what a flop. The kids have chosen a theme, 'Scouting through the years' and I'm just wondering, what do other groups do? Do you have guest speakers? What kind of menu do you go for? I've been to ceremonies for my nephews where everyone gets a door prize, is this something we are leaving out? I understand that the general idea is to celebrate the birthday of scouting, give out awards, we give out pinewood cars on this night, and generally enjoy each other's company over dinner. I just want to add to it up this year, the kids and leaders have worked really hard to make this year the best we've had in a long time. Thank you in advance for everyone's input!

So we are about five weeks into popcorn sales in our council and tonight, since we live on a rural road, I decided to take my scout and his friend who is also a fellow Webelos Scout door to door with product for about an hour after work and before dark in a subdivision about a mile from our house. We had sold to about eight houses and came to a house where a man yelled off his back deck "You are encroaching on our territory, get out of here!" I turned the boys around and headed back towards our car, the boys asked if we could sell to the last three houses before returning to the car and I figured since we were five weeks into sales and if someone else's kid wanted to sell to people in this neighborhood he should have already. So I told them yes, but just these three houses and we should leave the rest to the other kid to be polite. As they got up to the first house the two kids who had been playing basketball in the man's driveway zipped by on their bikes with their scout shirts un-tucked over basketball shorts and flip flops and ran up to the two remaining houses in front of my boys and sold to both residents.

My question, am I wrong for being completely enraged by this? My scouts were in full dress uniform and had taken the initiative to ask me to take them out to sell this evening.

I did not show anger in front of the kids of course, rather I told them that we should just get headed out it was almost dark. But as we drove home the two boys in the back were asking me if it was mean what the other boys had done and I told them it wasn't completely polite but we needed to remember that all popcorn sales got back to scouting so we should just be happy that people were supporting our organization. My son however said to me a few minutes ago while getting ready for bed "I know it all goes to the same place but I have to sell my goal to go to camp too, I still feel angry, is that okay?" and I told him he was entitled to feel however he wanted but sometimes we have to learn to be the bigger person. And promised him I would take them out another night to a different neighborhood.

I made sure to catch a glimpse at their pack number on their shirt and I know the cub master from that group quite well from round tables and such, would it be wrong of me to give him a call and pass on this rude behavior on their part?

I am a Webelos leader and my parents and I are trying to make a decision when to cross over our 2nd year Webelos. Traditionally our pack has done a cross over as part of our Blue and Gold ceremony during the last week of February. I was at our district round-table this week though and I heard about 50/50 of those who either cross over in February or wait until the rest of the cubs switch rank June 1st. All of my current 2nd year Webelos will be on track to finish all 20 requirements (though they could be stretched out if we decided to wait) at the beginning of February and parents are fine with either date as long as their scout is getting 100% out of the Webelos program and is truely ready to switch to a scout troop.

So my question is, when does your pack advance your Webelos and why?

This is a great idea, we are hoping to have a big fall round-up at our school and I think this idea will really satisfy a large crowd. It is a great and easy way to keep the cubs busy and under the care of existing cub parents so that us leaders get a chance to meet and greet with new parents. Thank you for sharing!

I have been trying to promote my cub scouts to get outdoors for the last two years, before I took over as camping chair the pack did not camp at all, it was just one meeting a week indoors. Some of the things that the cubs find most interesting and want to work on are,

-Tent pitching

-Fire building (establishing the area, going over tinder, kindling and fuel wood, talking about safety as far as high winds, dry areas and other safety issues)

-Whittling, my scouts love to sit outdoors, grab a stick and make something.

-Camp cooking, dutch ovens and box ovens for pizzas are their favorite

-Geocaching, this is a great way to get younger kids interested in maps and compasses, set up some mock caches around the camp and get a couple GPS's

-Hiking, my kids love to just go out, turn over some rocks and logs to find out what is underneath them, collect some leaves and rocks and bring them back and identify them, and make rubbings from them, learn about things like poison ivy and oak, kinds of berries that are safe to eat and ones that arent. Talk about types of trees, what they can be used for and which animals use them and for what.

-Go over the six or ten essentials of going outdoors, talk about leave no trace, go over the buddy system and the outdoor code.

That was probably more than you wanted but those are the key areas we go over time and time again and they never get sick of them, hopefully by the time they reach boy scouts they will have an idea of what is going on around them in the outdoors.

Good luck and remember to have FUN! For me, as long as my scouts see me having fun, laughing and joking with them, they will have fun no matter what we are doing.

Now that our pack has reorganized and gotten some new members and had six weeks since our June activity it is time to do our annual family camp event. Everyone is very excited especially our new scouts! We have decided to hold our camp at the local cub camp since it is unoccupied by day and resident camps that weekend and we have the whole place to ourselves!

The only thing we are running into is that because our family camp is an annual event we are running out of new great ideas for activties and don't want too many repeats. It is a Friday night thru Sundady at eleven event. Activities already planned are:

-Nature Scavenger hunt/hike

-Soccer Belt Loop

-Astronomy Belt loop

-Making camp t-shirts

-Flag retirement ceremony (at Saturday evening fire)

-Annual scouts(and siblings) vs. parents water balloon war

With record breaking temps. even here in Michigan we are looking for water related activites but do not have a lake (the truely sad and lacking part of this scout owned property) So we are looking for water related games/fun. Large group games, crafts or other scout skill building activities for Tiger thru Webelos II's plus their parents and siblings. What does your pack do for these kind of outtings? Any ideas are appreciated, Thanks

Thank you to everyone's comments, tonight we did have a den meeting and I took the opportunity to speak with the mother and father of the scout in question privately while another den leaders worked with the whole pack on a belt loop tonight. I didn't expect the conversation to go well but what I got was a disaster! As expected but still unfortunately the conversation did not go well and although I approached the subject calmly and explained what the problems were, when I laid out the idea that from now on parents would not be part of the den meetings they took their child and left. I was approached by two other parents asking what the fuss was and I explained the situation (as much as they needed to know) and informed them that the group was going to be more independent of parent hovering and they also both left before the meeting was over quite angry. The CM sent out an email tonight explaining that next weeks meeting would be a parent/leader meeting only, no kids, as there was aparently a problem with a few of the tiger parents as well tonight when the other parents got huffy and said if we couldn't control the group (at one point one of the mothers was tossing quite a fit and loudly in front of the other kids) they wouldn't be returning. It is likely that after the parent meeting we will have one more pack meeting, give the rest of the awards the kids have earned and call it a scouting year a few weeks early. Very frustrated, wishing I could do more, but we only have 11 registered students in the pack, some of them are siblings and two are mine! With so many upset parents letting everyone cool down seems the only way to go. We will see how it goes at the meeting, who knows maybe the situation will resolve itself.