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You go and fat-finger "atheist" one time... Merlyn, the BSA has to define "atheist" somehow. They can't say "someone who believes God doesn't exist", because that could exclude Buddhists and other accepted non-theist faiths. If my definition of atheist "one believes that nothing exists" may be "off the wall" according to you, but it really doesn't matter. I have a particular definition that I believe fits with BSA policy and the Scout Law by allowing me to be accepting of non-theist faiths. Your personal definition of "atheist" is up to you. Whether your personal definiti

No, Vicki, it doesn't. An atehist holds that nothing exists. You can have faith without believing that God (proper noun) exists. You can have a faith that doesn't have any sort of "god figure" at all. As has already been said, Buddhism, which rejects the metaphysical, is a PERFECT example. While some people consider Buddists to be atheists because of this, the BSA (as an organization) welcomes Buddhist scouts. The blanket statement that "one must believe in God in order to not be considered an atheist, and thus, be able to be a scout" directly flies in the face of the BSA's st

Packsaddle, the rule isn't "bad" and it doesn't need stringent application to make it be changed. You can have a personal belief system which doesn't require belief in the God of your parent's church. Bottom line, not believing in your parent's God doesn't make you an atheist by default.

Eagle83, The problem is that 80% of this country is Jewish, Islamic or Christian and another 15% believe in God but don't self-identify as a particular religeon, while about 1% or so claim to be atheists and agnostics. That means when the term "God" is used in conversation, it is automatically assumed that one is talking about the God of the aforementioned monothestic Abrahamic religeons. First, the BSA uses the term "absolutely nonsectarian". That means that when the BSA uses the term "God", they are not referring to the monothestic Abrahamic God. Second, the boy didn't say

Packsaddle and Vicki, I think you're missing the point some of us were trying to make: The scout doesn't have to believe in God (as we colloquially use the term); he just can't declare himself to be an atheist/agnostic. They are two seperate things. If he has a belief system of any kind at all (even if it doesn't include God), he's not an atheist. IMHO the BSA made a mistake by not coming out and saying that the term "God" does not mean the monothestic judeo/christian/islamic God we all grew up with, but rather it's merely the name for one's personal belief system. Instead, they

Well, the shop did give me another cotton shirt for the one that said "Bo Scouts of Amer ca". They didn't have the new shirts in, and sais it was "like item replacement", meaning I would get the new wool shirt *if* the cotton shirt was no longer available. In any case, I can get buttonholes made off post for a $1.50 each, I sew patches on myself, and the shop that does buttonholes can replace the iron-on letters with embroidered ones pretty reasonably, as well.

Merlyn, here's the simple test: Can the boy absolutely, positively not believe in the God of Christianity/Islam/Judaeism (i.e., the God of the church he is attending with his parents) and yet not be an atheist? There is a reason the BSA says "God", not "the God". There is a difference between not believing in God (as the term is used socially) and being an atheist. If the SM wants to press it he can find out if the boy just doesn't believe in the omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent white-bearded old man living in heaven, or if he doesn't believe anything exists at all.

Packsaddle, your own opinion about what is or is not a myth is 100% irrelevant. The BSA says "absolutely nonsectarian". Why some of you people have such a hard time understanding the BSA's policy is beyond me. If you want the BSA to say every boy must be a "member in good standing" of a Christian, Jewish or Islamic group, start politicking national to make that the policy. Otherwise, "absolutely nonsectarian" means exactly what it sounds like it means, and the boy doesn't have to believe in the Christian God.

I don't know about patch edges, but mine (the poly/cotton) is 9 months old and the iron-on "BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA" letters are all starting to peel off from the bottom up. Taking it back to the scout shop, maybe they'll replace it with one of the shirts with the lettering embroidered on. I have been consistently unimpressed with the centennial shirts all the way around. IMO the BSA made a big mistake making a "field uniform" shirt that won't be worn in the field except for religious services and ceremonies.

BS-87, urban dwellers have long wanted to shift more of the burden for maintaining rural roads from themselves to the rural and suburban community. A mileage tax would do that. However, I doubt there's enough politicial will for tracking devices in cars in the House and Senate. What you probably will see is increasing federal, state and local taxes on gasoline and deisel, and increasing taxes on vehicles of a certain fuel consumption and curb weight..

Basementdweller, the boy didn't say he was an atheist. He said he didn't believe in God. They are 2 different things. According to the BSA, he can worship his ipod or DS. Have you still not read the BSA's legal ruling on the matter? I'll post it, again, since you seem to have a hard time grasping it: "The Boy Scouts of America, therefore, recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but it is absolutely nonsectarian in its attitude toward that religious training." The BSA does not say what is and is not a valid religeon, only that the boy be

evmori, the BSA doesn't say anything about "going to church to check the block doesn't count", because the boy doesn't even have to go to church in the first place. Period. The boy doesn't have to acknowledge the God of the church/religeon he chooses to attend with his family, for whatever reason he's attending. Period. Unless he flat-out declares himself to be an atheist or agnostic, the BSA has no issues with him not believeing in said God, no matter what he does. Period. Buddihsm is a moot point, because the BSA doesn't have a list of "approved religeons" th

evmori, the problem is that in common vernacular, "God" is assumed to mean the monothestic God of Abraham. The BSA doesn't use that definition. They use "God" as "spritual higher power"; thus, their acceptance of Native American religeons, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc. So, the young man actively deny the existence of the Christian God and yet still perform his Duty to God and be Reverent toward God per the BSA's definition.

perdidochas, where do you get that it's been flat? Nationally, SAT reading scores have seen a gradual increase from 492 in 1980 to 516 last year, and that was after 30 seconds' research. Is that due to federally-funded reading programs? Maybe or maybe not, but the increase is right there in black and white. Now, you can certainly argue that the billions spent on education don't justify the results, but don't pretend that results don't exist.

BS-87, Paul isn't going to get any support from any Republicans of any sort. He'll get support from Libertarians who have been voting Republican. The Libertarian platform just conflicts too badly with the Republican platform on some key issues.

I agree there's a lot of money being wasted in education, but remember this: It takes the fedgov waving the carrot of dollars in front of States to get some of them to the educational level of 2nd world countries. Lord knows where they'll wind up without any motivation at all.

BadenP, the country isn't electing Bozos to Congress. Districts and States are electing Bozos to Congress. It doesn't matter if I think Pelosi or Reid are Bozos...they aren't representing me. It only matters if I think my Representative and Senator is a Bozo. Quite frankly, the people in Pelosi's district probably do think my Representative is a Bozo, but they have no say in who my Rep is, so it evens out in the wash.

Baden P, that's the second problem with Trump. Who can the President fire? The people serve "at the pleasure of the President", a list which includes ZERO lawmakers. He can fire his own cabinet members, and people who work in executive branch departments, bureaus and agencies. He can fire the director of the CIA or FBI. He can fire the Chiefs of the military service branches. Important to note, he can't just fire one and name the replacement...he can *nominate* a replacement, but those positions (including military) are confirmed by the Senate. He cannot fire anyone in the Hou

Packsaddle, I didn't forget Trump, he just isn't worthy of mention as a candidate, for one reason: Government isn't business. Donald Trump can gamble on a business enterprise...if it wins, he makes a billion dollars and looks like a genius. If it fails, he can wash his hands of it and walk away. He can even push the bankruptcy reset button and in a few years, he's made another billion dollars and everyone forgets. Bottom line, the real eastate market awards gamblers, and he can afford to gamble. The federal government isn't a real estate deal you get to walk away from if you

Romney: can't win the south. He comes across as a slick northeastern used-car salesman, even before you find out he's mormon. Daniels: Not much flash and a lot of smart substance, which means he'll win the intellectuals among the GOP and indies. Unfortunately, I don't think he has enough flash (yet) to pull the other 80% of them away from Dancing With The Stars long enough to go vote...so, he would be a good VP choice, or he needs a flashy VP that doesn't turn off indies. Palin: actively dismissed by indies, and without some indies, you don't win the Presidency. Period. She's

TAHAWK, I didn't mean to imply that you were personally advocating for the USN Fighting Knife Mark II...what I meant to imply was that you were getting wrapped up over the treatment of such knives by Troops guided by the encouragement provided by National policy (that infamous "do not encourage" bit). I agree, there are hundreds of choices of cutting tools a scout could use for tasks requiring a cutting tool. I further don't think that you (or anyone else) "misunderstood" a book written by survival experts with the BSA logo stamped on the front. I said that different people take differe

Beavah, I think you're misunderstanding Powell's statements regarding use of the military. I'm speaking as a field grade officer in the military, repeating what is getting taught by the military to field grade officers as part of their military education. You can say "the military is a blunt tool" all you want, but that's not what the military thinks. If you want to talk about diplomats, we can bring up state department security contractors making videos of themselves driving down the highway randomly shooting at people. Every organization attracts people who will invariably cause in

TAHAWK, your last two paragrapghs illustrates the issue some people are having: "At the end of the day, the BSA sells fixed-blade knives and suggests their use. Most of the Councils that purport to ban them also sell them in their camp stores. The majority of Troops that purport to ban them use them routinely in cooking. The Scouts will use them routinely at home and in their lives. So, I respectfully submit, BSA should present training information both in the Handbook and the syllabus for IOLS. We are about developing behavior and character for Scouting and for life. And if BSA elects

Beavah, maybe this angle of looking at the military will make it easier to understand: the job of the military is to do what the people, speaking through the government, tell it to do. If they *want* it to be a hammer to force a foreign government to do what we want them to do, it will be a hammer. If they *want* it to hand out bottled water and MREs to hurricane victims, it will be a relief organization. If they *want* it to assist the DEA and BP with capturing drug mules crossing the border, it will be eyes and ears. Sorry, but it's not *just* a hammer. What Colin Powell and other poli

TAHAWK, I'm not disagreeing with most of what you're saying. The point is, what the BSA actually *says* and what they actually *do* in regards to sheath knives are two different things. Next, scouts are taught how to care for, sharpen and handle knives. It doesn't matter one whit if that knife is a 2" folder or a combat knife. Passing fixed blade knives? Same thing as for the cook knife in the chuck box. Set it down, let the recipient pick it up. The Boy Scouts, believe it or not, allows for a bit of common sense to be applied to tasks. We (as adults) may have a hard time tolerati