jkhny

There is a larger issue here. What is the purpose of BSA?

 

Doesn't BSA exist to serve and support BOY SCOUTING in the US?

 

What are the "ideals" of Scouting? (let's ignore the gay/athiest issue for now).

 

IMHO, if you preach independence and self-reliance you shouldn't WANT help from others- whoever they are.

 

If you steadfastly define yourself as "private" it seems that you'd TURN DOWN governmental aid on a matter of principle.

 

I am appalled to see a Council host "grant writing seminars" and hear a Cub Scout Pack talk of seeking a governmental grant to buy a Pinewood Derby track (and this is in an AFFLUENT AREA). I went out and built one - with boys hepling (and learning in the process).

 

Yet look at the effort now being put into "Learning for Life" - which seems to be a contrived program WITHOUT an natural free-market constituancy. Would ANYONE voluntarily enrol in LFL if funds weren't provided to PAY for "membership?" LFL seems to exist ONLY to let BSA collect politically directed charitable and governmental funding that SCOUTING cannot collect.

 

Of note, LFL is the ONLY area BSA can claim "growth" - LFL will soon have more members than Cub Scouting. Yet would LFL even exist without directed funding? Schools are given funds to pay ONLY for this program. They are happy to take the money - for whatever reason. If it pays for someone teaching crafts to learning disabled kids - as it is here - fine, less time needed for a real teacher to cover the class. But don't be delusional. This is NOT Scouting. LFL seems like opening a Clinic to take advantage of Medicade funding. LFL is NOT helping "Scouting" in any way shape or form.

 

Seems like BSA SHOULD be focusing on fixing SCOUTING instead of claiming "success" by boosting counts through LFL. SCOUTING has 3.1 million boys by official numbers. There were probably only 2.5 million ACTUAL memebers when school ended this spring (BSA gets to count the new influx in the fall without deducting those that don't come back - a clever way to boost totals through accounting methodology.

 

Look at all the enrollment scandals - Alabama had as many kids in LFL as they claimed Scouts......though those numbers sure dropped. They are looking at ways to "restore funding" to "reinstate" the LFL program in full and pay for more members...... Hmm sure sounds like "buying" numbers to me. We USED to have REAL units for handicapped and "special needs" SCOUTS. Now any money collected for these programs goes to LFL. NOT the same.

 

I'd settle for BSA being treated the SAME as any other group and having the same accountability. Ever look at GSA's annual reports? or even BSA's OLD reports - lots of detailed numbers. No longer.

 

BSA is a private ogranization trying to milk as much aid as possible from "outsiders" - be it government or other charitable causes - under terms that it cannot honestly comply with. It uses legal weaseling like "Learning for Life" which is NOT a "discrimanatory" organization to get aid "Scouting" cannot receive. BSA solicits preferentiall treatment and exclusion from laws that other groups have to comply with. That is hardly ethical and more than a few people see the hypocrisy.

 

 

 

 

Yes.

 

How about an INDEPENDENT "Inspector General" in BSA - NOT reporting directly to the paid organization but to the National Executive Board? One that had REAL power and authority - with REAL repurcussions.

 

It seems clear that BSA has been having MAJOR problems with training of late - my GSA counterparts are ASTOUNDED that BSA allows leaders near kids without REQUIRING training. Stop the knee-jerk blame assignment - "Its not OUR fault! They didn't follow procedures!" Find out what went WRONG and keep it from happening again.

 

Unfortunately BSA has a tendency to automatically "spin" ANYTHING that goes wrong instead of looking at what happened. This applies to all the incidents out west where SE's were knee-jerk reacting before knowing anything - saying how "Procedures were followed" (even though somehow a lifejacket "came off" in the current and the leaders missed their exit point and ended up in worse rapids than planned for....and boys were acting dangerously near a river throwing logs in - wearing only sneakers in back country!?).

 

My favorite is BSA's trying to say "Unsupervised Scouts (at a Scout Camp) were responsible for the fire that caused $14 million worth of damage in Utah. Huh? There are SO many things wrong with that scenario....how about fire safety rules, adult supervision.... just who IS in charge?

 

BSA has too much of a focus on protecting its image - and the careers of paid staffers - than protecting boys. And this applies to far more than deaths and injuries. What about the recurring enrollment fraud? How many people REALLY believe BSA is committed to ending this practice when "goals" still remain paramount for evaluating paid staff? If they can't make the numbers, too many are willing to fake them.

 

Give someone (paid staff or volunteer)an EFFECTIVE way to deal with problems within BSA. You might end some of the cover-ups and other problems arising when the paid staff running things are the same people you want to complain about. If BSA would deal with enrollment fraud and such INTERNALLY volunteers wouldn't have to go to the FBI and the media.

 

It is in BSA's own interest to make clear to ALL that they care more about DOING what is right more than LOOKING like they're doing right.

 

ANY criticism of BSA - no matter how valid - seems to now be viewed as an "Attack" and is twisted into "blaming" the evil liberal media. THAT is a authoritarian tactic - hide behind ideology when your own actions cannot be defended by fact.

 

Well, BSA IS having problems and is NOT dealing well with them.

 

Is it the fault of the media for reporting four dead leaders - who IMPROPERLY and UNSAFELY were erecting a tent under power lines? (sorry, no way to dance around that. someone screwed up in a major way - and for a change BSA was right to say someone didn't follow safety rules - but NOBODY around didn't see this happening? nobody said "WAIT A SECOND!?)

 

Is it the fault of the media that a few hundred kids suffered from heat exhaustion? Water or not, What about "Be Prepared?" Sorry, but leaders should be making sure that boys have water and ARE drinking it.

 

At the same time there are reports of food poisioning in TWO summer camps with hundreds sickened - a story NOT being widely covered. What goes there?

 

What ever happened to admitting an error and working to correct it? THAT is what I was taught as a Scout.

 

And regarding Jamboree.....At the same time (and NOT knowing the circumstances) one has to wonder about having boys mustered and waiting for a President who didn't show. Perhaps Bush deserves some blame here. He has a few thousand boys waiting for him in 100+ degree heat and he doesn't show......

 

While some may question the focus on "the outdoors" and speculate that is part of the decline in Scouting I disagree. Our Council is a suburban one with relatively few parents focused on "real" outdoors activities yet our Troop (and others) have thrived by providing a true "High Adventure" program- hiking, camping, ice climbing, rafting, even dog sledding.

 

We have Troops that are drawing in boys with NO Cub Scouting experience - boys that crave the types of things we are doing. We produce long serving Scouts - a few Eagles every year and have a dedicated core of adult support. This Troop is little different from the Troop of MY youth - except we do BETTER in having boys earn advancement. And this is in an area where you are NOT likely to have boys coming from families with a strong history of "outdoors" activities.

 

But we succeed IN SPITE of BSA and our Council - with much effort on our part to compensate for the "shortcomings" in Scouting facilities here.

 

Part of the problem is that our Council has lost the "intermediate" level of facilities that used to exist. We used to have a number of reservations and summer camps. Some were "local" - less than 1 hour away with cabins, lakes, fields - relatively "civilized" and perfect for first time summer camp for younger Scouts. One summer camp was close enough it could be used for weekend events as well. Our "high adventure" camp was in the Adirondacks and really directed towards older and more experienced Scouts. Well, the close camps are now gone - hurting our program. New, costly and "overdone" cabins have been built in our one remaining "local" reservation - fine and cushy for Cub Scouts but a bit luxurious for "real" camping. But try to book a weekend. Demand ususally outstrips supply. But outside of the cabins, there are few good "camping" spots there with little flat land. The place is NOT good for running events, lacking open space and parking.

 

The reservation itself lacks the variety the old places provided. It's a pile of rocks around a stagnant lake - with a big swamp - hardly that appealing.

 

The remaining summer camp is largely the same - patched tents on rotting platforms strewn on rocky hillsides - I was a bit appalled when comparing this camp to my old summer camp.

 

So, you have extremes in accommodations in one sense - good for Cub Scouts and OK for "roughing it" but nothing in between. There's little of the variety we had at camp. Your Troop could book a clearing in a forest with platform tents one year, floored open face cabins another or a real "camping " experience in the woods.

 

BSA has hurt itself immensely with asset sales. Chicago is fighting this now. But somehow, there's millions to build new Council offices.....

 

Again, BSA needs to start listening to the leaders who ARE successful. Instead they are ignored by their Councils. BSA is LOSING the experienced Scouters who have been the core of Scouting. BSA has lost over 1/4 of its Council level adult leadership in the past 5 years. Veteran Scoutmasters here - who should be moving up to Council as their kids age out want nothing to do with Council. They stayed involved locally for the boys but have been so put off by the "politics" and BS at the Council level, well, things are falling apart there.....

 

And IMO and in my experience, Scouting here has been dependent on a very few dedicated Scouters who are the core of Scouting in their community. They were the "institutional" memory and served as Commissioners or Assistant Scoutmasters for decades. You lose these people and you lose Scouting. And these people are getting fed up with the sales of property and the focus on "numbers and money."

 

And there IS something to be said for "expanding " the focus and reach of Scouting. Explorers tried that but little came of it. Still even simple things like a "Robotics" Merit Badge seem to beyond the comprehension of an ossified National Leadership that is NOT responsive to those that actually deal with kids.

 

IMO, the problem with BSA is that it has become TOO much like a business with TOO many overpaid high level executives in multi-million dollar buildings. It is a large bureaucracy focused more on self-preservation than doing its job. It makes mistakes regularly - on a dramatic scale - and instead of working to improve things simply "circles the wagons".

 

I am not the first to say that after the changes instituted in the 70's BSA has not been the same. There is TOO Much of a focus on being a "business" and too little focus on serving boys and representing "Scouting."

 

The problem in BSA now seems to be current "management" and a "corporate culture" that has forgotten its mission. There have been many articles and postings commenting on the "disconnect" between the upper level of BSA and its volunteers. THIS IS THE REAL PROBLEM.

 

BSA is NOT supposed to exist to "increase numbers" and "raise more money."

 

BSA is SUPPOSED to exist to serve and support the volunteer leaders who run Scouting units. But current paid leadership seems to have forgotten this. BSA is one more "business" with to many "executives" concerned more about preserving their own power and perks than helping volunteers.

 

BSA's focus is on meeting superficial and meaningless goals. Truly bad senior paid staff are never fired - while dedicated Scouters at the DE level are driven out by a relentless push to meet "goals" by any means possible. Yet the HIGH Level paid staff are never held accountable for THEIR failures. Look at Atlanta and Alabama.

 

The obsession with "Statistics" has led to the current and far too widespread enrollment scandals. Paid staff at the low end are pressured to meet "goals" at all costs NOT to build a good quality Scouting program. SE's and those in Regional and National make far more than their counterparts at GSA or any other comparable non-profits geared towards serving youth. Instead of measuring REAL progress statistics are distorted to show "success" when none is occurring.

 

ANY criticisms - even those that are valid and worthwhile are ignored. I have read posts in the archives here by an Army officer who gave a clear outline of how to increase service to minority areas - one of BSA's recurring "problem" areas. He has been butting his head against a wall for decades. BSA would be far more successful listening to him and people like the unit leaders (the REAL unit leaders) in Atlanta - instead of faking results.

 

But BSA would rather take the "easy" course - like too many other "businesses.

 

Look at "Learning for Life." This is a contrived program designed more to solicit politically directed funding and increase "numbers" than serve youth. BSA itself says this is NOT "Scouting" yet includes its counts in the numbers it so widely touts. Failing to stem declines in Scouting - THIS program has been BSA's focus to build numbers. Some would say this is akin to opening a clinic simply to take advantage of Medicaid funding - signing up any patients you can get in the door. Would this program exist without government funding? SHOULD this program exist as part of Boy SCOUTS of America?

 

There is NO accountablity on the part of BSA leadership - to ANYONE. Look at the enrollment scandals. Why do they keep happening? Many claim this is a "small" problem. It is not - but it IS symptomatic of the very real problems in BSA. Look at the salaries paid to Scout Executives, Regional Staff and National staff. Yet BSA is failing - with continually declining numbers. In WHAT business would paid leadership be "rewarded" for these "results?"

 

Even when the volunteers CLEARLY have problems with paid staff it is impossible to change things. Look at Chicago. My Council in NY is the same. It is near impossible to oust auticratic and incompetent leadership - at the Council or National level.

 

The solution is simple - give volutnteers a REAL and DIRECT voice in their own Councils and in National. Let the Scouts and Scoutmasters run Scouting. If you have a great Scoutmaster or dedicated Scouter who's been involved in Scouting for decades THEY have more of an impact than any short serving DE concerned only with making his "numbers."

 

One of our most accomplished unit leaders made his pov clear - "I will not tolerate incompetence and dictatorial behavior where I VOLUNTEER my time."

 

The most accomplished unit leaders could help immensely if given a voice in Scouting. Yet they are ignored or punished for their efforts so they walk away or stay focused ONLY on their own units. BSA - and others - lose out.

 

 

Ah, the naivete of youth. At 19 I wonder how much Mr. Zeiger really knows about "Honor." Blindly defending anyone or anything is naive. He would do Scouting a far larger favor in making sure that those involved show the values they profess.

 

And on the topic of "honor" - and ethics and morals......

 

"Last year (2004) the Grand Teton Council received the National BSA Risk Management Award for the Best Youth Protection and Health and Safety Plan. Only 4 of 308 councils throughout the Untied States received this award last year."

 

Funny, but today reports surfaced about the FOURTH pedophile found in to have been involved in BSA there. Pardon me for wondering how a Council with this history of ignoring abuse - led by a SE who personally ignored abuse - can claim such an "honor?" I have to wonder how bad things are in the rest of the remaining 304 Councils.

 

Quoting one of the reports:

 

 

 

OK let me be clearer. You just got your unit charter back and there are boys listed you haven't EVER seen - they supposedly crossed over from Cub Scouts two years ago but never went to any Troop Meetings. The are still on your roster. You've already left countless unreturned phone messages and e-mails for your DE.

 

Your Committee Chair and local Commissioner is at the District Meeting and gets a copy of a handwritten Quality Worksheet with clearly altered numbers (a variety of handwriting showing) signed off and officially distributed to attendees with numbers that are not even in the same ballpark as the numbers shown on the official District printouts showing membership for the same period - also handed out at the same meeting. Frankly, this shows a level of stupidity and incompetence that would result in the immediate termination of ANYONE that worked for me. That blatant a lie is indefensible.

 

But it's not your job so you're going to remain silent..... it's not the volunteers that are fudging things here......spreading gossip or misinformation - the DE is lying plain and simple. The SE is incompetent if not checking the numbers - or complicit in the fraud.

 

Evil thrives when good people are silent.

 

And in a far too related issue...Idaho is alot worse that reported up until now...

 

How do professionals hold onto their jobs when they've failed to properly deal with been three completely separate cases of abuse? But then if the complaining boys were only spreading gossip and misinformation... How much wrongdoing should be excused or "overlooked?"

 

And no I am not "overstating." A failure of leadership reflected in lying about numbers or failing to protect boys is different only in degree. Moral and ethical standards were ignored in both cases. How far down that slippery slope are you willing to go?

 

If those that are supposed to "handle" things are NOT doing so, you should be screaming louder and louder at each successive level until someone listens and acts. If nobody will do so inside, you go outside. And THAT is what is currently happening with all the breaking scandals in BSA. Nobody in BSA is listening. Sadly, It is only going to get worse.

 

It's all about "character" - it's really THAT simple. B.S.A. needs to start showing some and hold its paid staff accountable to the standards they demand of volunteers.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

B.S.A. itself asserts that it is a "representative democracy" and is "responsive" to the desires of its members.

 

How "responsive" is an organization that PUNISHES those holding it accountable to its own stated principles.

 

I have yet to hear ANY justification for the revocation of registrations for volunteers that have RIGHTFULLY questioned the UNTRUSTWORTHY and even ILLEGAL actions of paid professionals within their Councils.

 

When a volunteer leader says - I haven't trained any leaders for ALL of these units, what goes? and is told to "forget it"......when he presses the issue and finds out the units in question do not exist and is told "be quiet"......when he presses the issue and is told "keep it up and you'll find yourself out of Scouting......when he goes to the outside, when all he suspected is proven true yet he IS throwwn out of Scouting - while a grossly overpaid "professional" wigh a history of enrollment fraud remains in place.....how do you explain that?

 

When a leader questions why a large part of his Council's budget is being spent on offices instead of boys, that is a just and appropriate - even "ethical" question. When the person asking that question is thrown out for asking it, something is very wrong.

 

When a Scout that reports a paid professional is buying alcohol for underage counselors and is thrown out - instead fo the professional fired - something is very wrong.

 

When a 4th generation Scouter complains about the sale of assets in his once rich Council and the replacement of experienced volunteers in District and Council positions with "no-show" political selections = people never seen in the course of the followint year, something is very wrong.

 

When people FOLLOWING the rules and regulations of Scouting are removed for asking why paid staffers are NOT doing so, something is wrong.

 

This is not "gossip" or third hand information. These are readily available cases personally documented.

 

And the procedures Bob cites refer to a UNIT's ability to remove a UNIT leader - with the approval of its chartering organization.

 

In the cases noted - NOT idle "gossip" but documented quite completely and directly - leaders were removed under the "top secret" Procedures for Maintaining Standards of Membership. Ever seen a copy? I doubt it. Even though it is supposed to be B.S.A.'s manual for dealing with child abuse - the procedures to be used to protect boys from felons and pedophiles - it is "restricted". But then B.S.A.'s own Rules and Regulations and Charter and Bylaws are not accessible ONLY through Council offices.

 

B.S.A. is showing behavior far more in keeping with a dictatorship than a "representative democracy" that regularly wraps itself in "American ideals"

 

This is appalling. The convoluted justifications I have heard for clearly BAD and inexcusable behavior make me wonder if some have totally forgotten ALL that Scouting is supposed to stand for.

 

On the Fourth of July I am reading excuses made for behavior that is clearly more appropriate for Stalinist Russia than the U.S.A.

 

When scandal after scandal envelops an organization that claims to teach youth to make "moral and ethical" decisions - something is VERY wrong.

 

No organization - military, corporate or governmental should suffer incompetent amoral leadership. ONE example within B.S.A. should be too many. Those that attempt to justify such behavior are deluding only themselves.

 

It is the DUTY of an American soldier to disobey an illegal order. It is the DUTY of a Scout to hold others in Scouting to the principles stated in the Scout Law.

 

And Ed, I wouldn't try yelling "B.S.A. sucks!" in any forum where they have a shot at identifying you - or you will get thrown out... It's happened for less....

 

And Bob - a question - what do you do when your District Executive is lying about membership numbers? He's overstating enrollments by 25% over "official" numbers and almost 50% over actual current enrollments. The Scout Executive doesn't want to hear this because then he would lose a Quality District and then his Quality Council. He needs that count to meet HIS "goals." The hand-picked Executive Board claims tht they will "study" the issue but months later a "Committee" has yet to be formed and no action taken. Are we supposed to ignore all this?

Bob - do you read the news?

 

Tom Willis got thrown out the very day his charges about enrollment fraud were proven correct. He went to outside authorities with his concerns about enrollment fraud only after BSA paid professionals ignored him. He was even threatened with revoval from Scouting if he pressed the issue. Somehow the skeletons in his closet were not sufficient cause to have him thrown put any earlier - he was in charge of training new leaders (which led him to ask why som many units had NO leaders trained). It turned out that they didn't exist. But Holmes - the SE who removed Willis - was also involved in the Circle Ten Scandal in 2000. He's been caught for the second time. Holmes makes over $200,000 a year and is scrambling to hold onto a position he'd be hard pressed to match anywhere else. He is an embarassment to the values of Scouting.

 

Richard Knaul - a 17 year Scoutmaster in Auburn NY - was removed after siging a letter submitted to a local paper (along with 23 others) questioning whether spending $500,000 on unneeded new Council offices (instead of programs for boys) was an "ethical" decision. His unit and its Chartering Organization opposed his removal. Of note the SE continued to raise funds AFTER reaching his goal - and was called on it by a group that had provided the matching funds.

 

There are alot more - and these are NOT "whiney" disgruntled "troublemakers" - they are dedicated and concerned Scouters TRYING to hold paid professionals to the same standards of "character" BSA supposedly demands of its volunteers.

 

ANY organiztion that touts values so regularly should find such abuses by professional staff INTOLERABLE. Those who blindly follow without challenging abuses are just as guilty themselves.

 

You cannot porvide a good program for youth when most of the youth enrolled are non-existant. You cannot provide a gfood program for youth when you've sold off all the facilities in your Council. You cannot run a good program for youth when you have so alienated your volunteer base that they refuse to support your Council with time or money.

 

BSA is NOT perfect and does reflect society - far more often than some would like to admit.

 

IN THEORY, most District and Council positions are supposed to be chosen by volunteers - if only through "nominating committees." "Elections" occur only in the sense that you'd see in a pseudo-"democracy" - with the WHOLE slate approved or voted down.

 

The catch is that too often the paid staff - SE and DE control who's on the "nominating" committee. Stack the Committee and you get who you want. Even where reps vote whole slates down - detailed in a post under Dictatorship or Democracy - you can have the volunteers will blocked.

 

Most COR's do not participate and vote so this can happen. On the other hand given that the LDS DOES actively use their COR status and represents a large number - if not majority of units - in some locales, I would bet that they have a large voice in who fills District and Council spots.

 

In a "good" Council with good paid staff who listen to their volunteers with a high level of participation and involvement you will get good people chosen for positions that they are appropriate for - in skills and temperment. There's no real problem with "the system" in that case. It's something of a "benevolent" all-encompassing autocracy with the involved that actually do the work having roles in filling positions.

 

However if you get stuck with autocratic leadership, you're stuck with whoever Council leadership chooses. In our Council's case that means too many positions are filled with novice short timers (who don'e have a clue what's going on) who were chosen only for their willingness to do as our SE wants - leaving real work undone. Too many positions are filled in name only with people not seen in decades or complete unknowns. Our "new" Assistant District Commissioner is a guy who now lives 6 states away for most of the year - otherwise inactive in Scouting for the last decade. In the last 2 years, of the 30 "District Representatives" - only a half dozen are real Scouters and they were left in place only because a complete broom sweep was impossible. But any vocal critics were ousted and most of those named haven't been seen anywhere doing anything.

 

"Democracy" at its finest.....

 

If it's not your council, be glad and make sure things don't end up that way.

 

 

Assume it IS all true - because it is. ANd it HAS happened AGAIN - here. And AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN and AGAIN. Be glad if it's not happening where you are but be aware that it IS happening elsewhere.

 

The account was written by one of the principals involved who confirmed its accuracy. A number of volunteers in that Council have been "suspended" - something new to me. Usually B.S.A. simply throws people out.

 

I have talked to at least a half dozen people removed by B.S.A. or personally familiar with volunteers removed for VALIDLY questioning bad behavior by Scout Executives or Council Leadership. local newspaper articles available on the web or other third party information supports all these accounts.

 

These are people with DECADES of service in Scouting dedicated to its values, NOT novice know-nothings. These people are far more dedicated to the values of Scouting than the paid staffers who threw them out.

 

This now seems to be a regular practice on the part of autocratic SE's. It has happened here in my Council. It happened in upstate NY where a 17 year Scoutmaster was removed. A Troop could not get its charter removed there becuse its adult leadership had taken a strong stance against the behavior of the SE there. The SE killed an active Troop while keeping ghost units on the rosters. The SE in one GA Council removed those that complained about a DE buying beer for camp counselors - instead of the DE. Only when the DE was arrested for DUI and others confronted the SE were those removed reinstated. This same SE was bumped UP and out of Council after an IRS investigation into problems in the Council. the booted one in Alabama was remnoved the very day his charges of overstatement were proved true. Holmes, the SE, is scrambling to deflect blame after being caught for the SECOND time in enrollment fraud. Holmes makes over $200,000 a year and works in new $2 million offices. Who had more to lose - Holmes or the volunteer that brought in the FBI when BSA did nothing?

 

Someone noed that the abuse in Idaho was overstating things - I don't think so. The good guys are now gone and the ones who covered up got promoted.

 

ALL of these cases SLANDER those that ARE doing the right thing in Scouting. ALL of these cases HURT Scouting. ANY Scouter should be appalled that this occurs in ANY way shape or form.

 

C'mon. Pull your head out of the sand. If I can find out all this and talk to the principals involved, a reporteer can do so too. This is NOT appropriate behavior for B.S.A. When caught doing something bad, the reaction is to bury it and silence the whistle-blower. Is that the appropriate response to wrongdoing?

 

If B.S.A. was serious about correcting these abuses there would be the equivalent of an "Inspector General" office where volunteers could raise concerns and real investigations would occur followed by REAL repurcussions. Instead National hides and says anything is a "local" problem. Well too many of these "local" problems arise from incompetenet paid staff who should have been removed from the professional ranks years ago.

 

The blindly loyal enable Dictatorships, defending anything done in the name of ideology. Don't justify misdeeds by saying say it can happen anywhere. The question is why is it happening within BSA and why is it happening so regularly? Why isn't BSA isn't working to solve the problem?

 

This is Stalinist behavior - autocracy at its worst. What is it doing in Scouting? But then if you look at those involved you see grossly overpaid - and questionably competent - people unlikely to find similar power and perks elsewhere. They fake numbers because they cannot build enrollments legitimately. They sell off facilities because they have alienated contributors and can't make financial goals. Of course they will do anything they can do to hold onto what they have. And they don't want anyone pointing out their failures. This is corporate sleaze at its worst. About those "timeless values?"

 

Evil thrives when good men are silent.

 

What happens if I am right? What happens if I am UNDERSTATING the problem? What happens when all of these issues erupt into the public light? Will BSA survive a far too typical corporate scandal? Too many "typical" corporations have not. How bad is it going to be when the whole focus of your organization is "character?" Don't you think that there aren't enough people out there that would LOVE for BSA to implode in a very messy hypocritical hari-kari?

 

BSA needs to start reforming from within and making sure that there can't be even a HINT of problems. It needs to sweep house instead of burying bodies. It's going to be a hot summer and the bodies are starting to smell.

 

ANY REAL Scout should be concerned about these issues. EVERY SCOUT should be screaming to National whenever another scandal hits the news. Every single one of these headlines hurts Scouting. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

The following was passed along to me. The following parallels behavior in our Council - should this occur in Scouting? What happens when volunteers are completely disenfranchised by the leadership that is supposed to represent them?

 

In this Council, volunteers critical of leadership have been "suspended" by Council leadership - a move that I can find no reference to in ANY BSA rules and procedures.

 

Edited to remove names and locale as I am a third party to those actions. My intent is to point out that this occurs too often. Valued and regularly used property is sold off over the protests of volunteers, and leadership ignores volunteers. Nominating committees are manipulated - in this case repeatedly - to obtain the results leadership wants.

 

And locally, OUR SE has gotten "legal" approval for an "Executive Committee" to take action in place of the full Executive BOARD - further limiting outside involvement and oversight....I wonder if it has anything to do with increasing dissent - even on the Board....

 

Enrollment numbers show less than 8,000 instead of the more than 10,000 claimed (with less than 6,000 Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts). Day camp enrollments have plumeted - no one is happy about running camp on public property with limited control (paid staff are running programs because volunteers will not take on the responsibility). FOS numbers are down with leadership refusing to contribute in 3 of 5 Districts. WHY, when leadership is clearly and obviously FAILING is it impossible to get rid of the leadership - those that are making a mess of things?

 

This type of behavior is killing Scouting.

 

 

OK...a bit more info. Four to one ratio of adults to boys is good and older boys. But the total was only 10. How many rafts - two? But this story notes that TWO boys went in the water. That sounds like really rough water or people not prepared. If two went over from one raft, you've got problems. Only three are left in the raft right there to deal with it and if the two are going in different directions.....

 

Or was everyone focused on one when the second went in? Frankly it's not easy to haul even a 13 year old back in a raft - older boys are bigger.

 

Were people here in over their heads? Simply taking a water safety course does NOT prepare you for white water rafting. Even class 3's can be a handful for the relatively inexperienced.

 

Again, this is the type of activity that can give even the most competent leader ulcers. Not to say that you don't do it but you HAVE to be prepared and as noted previously, you want people who KNOW the river you're on along with you if you don't.

 

And - when our Troop does it - the White Water rafting is NOT considered part of the associated Scout trip and a wavier specifically noting so has to be signed by parents to that effect.

 

 

FARMINGTON, N.M. -- A Scout expedition on the Animas River, west of Farmington, has ended with the death of one of the teenaged Scouts.

A 15-year-old apparently drowned after falling out of the raft. Another scout who fell into the swift-moving water was pulled to safety.

 

The victim was found five miles down river.

 

There were a total of eight Scouts and two adult Scout Masters on the rafting trip.

 

 

 

Hate to add onto the list.....at least the boy had a PFD but I don't see how it came off. This is the type of thing that gives leaders ulcers. I've been WWrafting enough and it should be TIGHT - done right, lifejackets shouldn't come off no matter how fast or rough the water. Even if you're knocked out it's designed to right you and hold your head out. We check and double check. You should be able to lift someone by their lifejacket without it coming loose.

 

My oldest went over out West in a rocky Class 3 stretch about this time a year ago despite having a secure position and feet wedged in as he should. He did as instructed - on back, feet up and pointing downriver...a good adrenaline rush but we got him back in safe and sound even though part of the raft went over him.

 

But then a Navy Seal died back here (I think in West Va) because he didn't keep his feet up and got a foot caught in rocks and was swept under.....

 

frankly, I wouldn't even do this with kids I did not know well and trust and without experienced adults along. Our Troop does a stretch here annually but it's relatively tame and we all know the run. Any new locale that has some risk, I'd want experienced guides along - one per raft that know the river at hand.

 

And - to balance out things - a few months back a boy died off Cape May in NJ while whale watching - NOT wearing a PFD (in violation of safety afloat rules).

 

 

Regarding "numbers"

 

An LA Times story - the ONLY One that I could find to give a full reporting of the audit stated that

-

 

 

 

Frankly, when even a half-baked "audit" - a sampling of 68 or 482 (NOT a full unit by unit audit- or was that all they found?), an "official" audit conducted by a hand-picked firm, could only find 5,361 - out of whom 3,485 were "Active" - something really stinks. One of the few REAL Scoutmasters in this program stated he was tired of being used for PR purposes by BSA. It's clear what was going on - we should all be ashamed. Such a scandal does irreparable harm to BSA's image in minority communities. We'll use a few for photo-ops and lie about the rest......now about all that money for this program??? BSA claims it was all spent appropriately? Anyone want to ask the REAL units how much they saw????

 

The VOLUNTEER leaders aren't the ones reporting fraudulent numbers. It's the paid professionals!!! This has been an ongoing and escalating problem for DECADES.

 

C'mon, Holmes in AL got caught for the second time and he's trying to blame the ACLU. If there's a REAL unit there's no problem finding a CO for it. Such blatant lies and pathetic attempts at cover-ups disgrace the Scouting movement and all those that are on the up and up. EVERY single "stand-up" leader in Scouting (paid or volunteer) SHOULD be caling for heads whenever something like this occurs. If Holmes had been fired the first time there wouldn't have been a second. The SE in Atlanta DID "quit" - if voluntarily, he showed more honor than Holmes is showing. And Holmes was telling people in AL that he was going to be the next CSE!??!! Is THIS the example we want leading BSA??!!??

 

BSA does NOT need a full-blown corporate scandal a la Enron or Worldcom but the makings are there.....overpaid high level executives faking results meanwhile real performance continues to decline. You can't fake "character" when that is central to your organization's raison d'etre.

 

And as far as "who is hurt" by faking numbers??? If you have to ask that you have no place in Scouting. You just don't "get it" and never will. Morals, ethics, character.

 

 

Full story below:

 

Audit Faults Atlanta Scout Rolls

An independent review finds that officials vastly inflated membership in a program for poor inner-city youths.

By Jenny Jarvie

Times Staff Writer

 

June 6, 2005

 

ATLANTA Terrence Zachary, a Scoutmaster from a west Atlanta housing project, used to show his pride in his uniform by wearing it to the warehouse where he loads trucks.

 

Last month, though, he folded up his shirt and put it in his dresser. He now wears a baggy white T-shirt and jeans to Boy Scout meetings.

 

"The shirt has great meaning," said Zachary, 21, a computer science student. "I believe in being trustworthy, loyal and helpful. But officials manipulated that meaning for their own personal gain."

 

Last week, an audit found that Boy Scout officials in Atlanta had vastly inflated participation in Operation First Class for disadvantaged inner-city youths.

 

In brochures, the program claimed to have more than 15,000 members, but the audit found 5,361 enrolled members, of whom 3,485 were active.

 

Some observers are even challenging those numbers as too high, saying as few as 500 are in the program.

 

In an open letter Sunday to the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts, Joseph Beasley of the Rainbow/PUSH Coalition who triggered the initial investigation in another open letter to the board demanded a more thorough investigation.

 

"These figures are ridiculous," wrote Beasley, Rainbow/PUSH's southeast regional director. "In no way can this report be said to be independent."

 

The audit found that Scouting officials had altered the birth years of Scouts who had outgrown the program, and that officials had reregistered inactive troops. In some cases, auditors found no evidence that listed units had existed.

 

Auditors found that Scouting staffers inflated membership numbers to meet recruiting goals, not to increase fundraising, said Edgar Sims, a lawyer with the Atlanta law firm that conducted the eight-month audit, McKenna Long and Aldridge.

 

"There was a total failure to provide adequate leadership and supervision," Sims said.

 

Hours after the audit's release Tuesday, David Larkin resigned as executive director of the Atlanta Area Council of the Boy Scouts. Larkin, who earned more than $250,000 a year, said in a written statement that he was "deeply disappointed both personally and professionally."

 

For the members of Troop 685, Larkin's resignation was little comfort.

 

"The way they used us was not right," Zachary said.

 

For about 20 years, the troop has worked with boys from the Bankhead Courts housing project in an Atlanta neighborhood whose ZIP Code 30318 is renowned for producing the most prison inmates in Georgia. The troop offers weekly meetings, camping and hiking trips, and mentoring from local businesses.

 

When Operation First Class was established in 1991, Troop 685 hoped Scouting would thrive in nearby housing projects.

 

Leaders began to suspect the Atlanta Area Council of inflating the number of inner-city Boy Scouts in 2002, when Isley Agnew, a 15-year-old Scout, moved from Bankhead Courts to another housing project and could not find the listed troop.

 

"It was shocking at the time," Agnew said. "I wanted to be a Scout; they said there was a troop, but I couldn't find anything."

 

When Bob Kent, director of the Bankhead Boys Assn. and committee chairman of Troop 685, approached Atlanta's Boy Scout headquarters to suggest setting up a troop, he was told the project already had one.

 

"It was the strangest thing," Kent said. "They just stuck to the position that there was already a troop. It was all phony, and we knew it was all phony."

 

Disillusioned, Troop 685 stopped recruiting.

 

"We didn't see any future," Kent said. "We were seeking to get the support we needed to expand, but the Scouting organization didn't seem interested."

 

Allegations of inflated membership rolls have been leveled at various Boy Scout groups across the country.

 

In Alabama, the FBI is investigating rumors that Birmingham's council officials fabricated members.

 

In the 1990s, councils in Los Angeles, Vicksburg, Miss., and Jacksonville, Fla., were embroiled in similar membership controversies.

 

In Texas, an inquiry five years ago by U.S. Postal Service investigators prompted Dallas' Boy Scout council to revise enrollment downward.

 

Some Atlanta volunteers said the Boy Scouts of America National Council pressured district leaders to increase enrollment.

 

National Council spokesman Gregg Shields said membership inflation was "isolated to a few" of the 310 councils across the country.

 

"I wouldn't characterize this as a national problem," he said.

 

The Scouts' national office said it planned to introduce new checks on membership inflation, including five audit teams and a signed document to be filed by volunteers as well as staffers.

 

The Atlanta audit found no fraudulent use of funds for the inner-city Scouting program. The Atlanta council's executive board has said it plans to retrain staffers and set up a task force of key volunteers and leaders to find ways to develop the inner-city Scouting program.

 

"I want to reassure Boy Scouts in the inner cities that we are committed to giving the same quality program as our Scouts in the suburbs," board President Tom Gay said. Despite the allegations, he said Operation First Class was a successful program with more than 5,000 members.

 

But Troop 685's leaders, skeptical of the audit, said participation was lower than the law firm found.

 

"They must be talking about Scouts on another continent because I haven't seen them. Where are they?" said Troop 685 Cubmaster Cedric Samuels, 24.

 

The audit compiled its figures after surveying unit leaders and contacting the sponsors or volunteers of a sample of 68 of the 482 Operation First Class scout units.

 

A former district executive of the Atlanta council, Kevin Tullis, said the report's definition of an active Scout was flawed. Tullis said he was forced to resign in July after he complained about recruiting procedures.

 

"If 5,000 people register to vote, but only 500 show up at the polling station, it's not correct to say you have 5,000 voters," he said.

 

Advancements by rank and summer camp attendance more accurately indicate Scout participation, Tullis said. Although more than 3,000 Scouts were enrolled in his west Atlanta district in July, Tullis said, 17 attended summer camp last year in Covington, Ga.

 

Gay, the board president, said Scouts should not have to attend regularly to be included on rosters.

 

 

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

 

If you want other stories on this topic, search the Archives at latimes.com/archives.

 

Article licensing and reprint options

 

 

 

 

Did you even check out the site or the recent coverage of Atlanta? From 15,000 (spun by BSA to only 10,000 claimed) to 5300 (with only 3400 "active") and would ANY company on earth tolerate that kind of creative accounting???? Even the repeated and regular 30% differences would be cause for dismissal in any other organization.

 

Black Scoutmasters are saying they are fed up with being used in photo-ops to show how Scuting is serving the inner city - even as BSA lies like hell about it. A whole troop took off their uniform shirts in protest. Troop leaders - REAL leaders of REAL Troops are saying they don't think there's 500 kids in this program - when BSA was claiming 15,000.

 

Again, this is a regular and far too common problem. Are all those that say "ain't happening here" SURE about that? We had a guy starting up a Venturing crew calling up other units to find out how they were doing and such. Most of the the supposed units were dead - some for years. We have a Pack -the darlings of our District for "growth" claiming 50 members. Eight showed in the Memorial Day parade. We had 26 out of 37 real members. C'mon. Something stinks somewhere. We won't play games, but others are far more willing to bend rules - or just plain old lie. And in most cases the DE is doing it for units whose leaders don't even know what's happening......all those "errors" - boys not seen in years that you just can't get taken off rosters. I'm hard pressed to find a Unit Leader that hasn't had to cope with this.

 

Few Unit Leaders - and few District people ever get to see what official claims are being made by Council. It's EASIER for large COuncils to lie like hell. If there are supposed to be 65,000 in your COuncil, odds are you aren't going to know much beyond your owwn District. Here - with supposedly 10,000 - people have a good idea what's real and what isn't.

 

Google Boy Scouts enrollment Atlanta and read the stories. Then say this is a "shakedown" - this is people rightfully fed up with being used by an organization that has done little to help them. Read what SCoutmasters are saying.

Dis you look at the web site referenced. THings in Atlanta ARE pretty bad

 

The concerns expressed in the above post are the same as yours. Dedicated Scouters do not want to see "Scouting" killed but there are serious problems at the National level with those that should be the ones cleaning house.

THe bad behavior of paid staff in all these recent instances sullies the image of all those doing a great job and blackens the name of Scouting.

 

 

But when corruption is at the top, what do you do?

 

What happened in the cases hitting headlines (and many more not yet there) when volunteers confronted problems at the local level and questioned what was happening.

 

They were ignored or even threatened by local leadership. They received NO help from National. Our District Chair was told "It's a local problem." But when - as the letter above noted - SE's control who is appointed to the Board that is supposed to oversee their actions, volunteers have no recourse. Just TRY to oust a SE using COR's. Has it EVER been done?

 

Despite being caught for the second time in an enrollment fraud scandal, Holmes in ALabama is trying to say "the ACLU ate my units" and threw out the volunteer that brought in the FBI. He got THIS post (at over $200,000 a year) after CIrcle Ten in Dallas. National hasn't done anything to hold him accountable - and National had to be complicit in the removal of the whistle-blower given the press THAT was poing to generate.

 

What kind of message is being sent by BSA?

 

Speak out and you're out!!

 

Is this Stalinist Scouting or Boy Scouts of AMERICA.

 

When corruption is at the top what do you do? Reform does not come from within. Those in power do anything and everything they can to retain that power.

 

This is America yes, but don't forget history. Does anyone believe that Richard Nixon would have held on to the end if Woodward and Bernstein had not dug and dug deep? Where would they have gotten without their inside source? Remember what happened in the closing months of Watergate? A scramble to intimidate, hide, cover-up and lie about everything "for the greater good" of "Protecting" the Presidency and the US. God save us from such "protection."

 

BSA counts on everyone not wanting to discuss problems, punishing and intimidating those that do and pulling strings to keep bad news as quiet as possible. Does anyone believe that Atlanta would have hired OUTSIDE auditors if Rainbow Coalition/PUSH wasn't on thier necks - and even THAT "audit" is questionable. C'mon claims for 10-15,000 down to 5,000 with less than 3,500 "active" (there's a 30% overstatement right there - is THAT level so common it's STANDARD and not cause for concern?) That means you're lucky to have just over 2 million boys in Scouting - some difference from the 5 million "served" claimed by National.

 

BSA has been having the same scandals for DECADES. If there was a will to solve this problem it WOULD be solved.

 

WHY won't BSA allow a nation-wide audit of membership rolls?

 

Why aren't paid staff caught lying fired?

 

WHy aren't paid staff caught in financial scandals fired?

 

 

I expect that all this will continue to boil and build up pressure. It's happening in too many places - at too deep and indefensible a level.

 

The longer this continues, the more damage that gets done and the harder it will be for the organization to recover.

 

Quoting another:

 

 

The following from:

 

http://www.boyscoutsfortruth.com/

 

This site apparently set up by volunteers in Atlanta'

A good summary of what those of us in "not-so-well-run" Councils see and feel. It is an intelligent and thoughtful take on what is a very REAL problem (even if you are lucky enough NOT to have them in your Council). What happens to BSA nationally affects ALL of us in Scouting.

 

 

Amazing how heads remain in the sand.

 

Funny how the whistle-blower that brought in the FBI in Greater Alabama got thrown out of Scouting on the same day the "official" audit showed hw was right and numbers were overstated by 30%.

 

Holmes is blaming "the ACLU" for these declines. You've GOT to be kidding. BSA agreed to switch over charters for units where schools or military units held them. This isn't a problems when the units are REAL. Parent Teacher groups or other community groups step up without any problems when there are REAL units with REAL members. "Ghost Units" have a hard time finding sponsors.

 

Why won't Greater Alabama allow independent outsiders to check on these units? And how come there are more LFL members there than Scouts? THAT is a huge red flag that it's FRAUD, FRAUD. Those numbers were cut in half - but the Board says they'll reinstate these members when "funding" is found. Real warm bodies are harder to find.

 

And Holmes thinks he's going to be Chief Scout Executive some day??? About the whole "character" issue???? Shouldn't the PAID professionals show the same amount required of volunteer leaders??? Frankly, I'd want someone a little more intelligent to run ANY organization this big. "John Does" with addresses at Council Headquarters were listed that way for "their protection" and "The ACLU ate my units" excuses are embarassingly lame. At least the short serving SE in Atlanta (7 months?) showed some honor and quit (or was he really fired?). His predecessor - now up in NH - is doing a pre-emptive damage control audit in his new Council. You think he'd have some responsibility in all this. After all, I doubt numbers doubled or tripled in under a year. And BSA is being so helpful in giving Atlanta an interim SE. You wouldn't want the Board to actually hire someone with scruples. They might find out that numbers really are about 500. Sounds like damage control.

 

But take heart - all the money that was supposed to be spent on this disadvantaged youth program was spent there - or so BSA says. The very few REAL black Scoutmasters there might be wondering where all the money went.

 

Holmes, the SE makes over $200,000 a year (where average salaries are less than $30,000) and works in new $2 million offices. He was involved in the Circle Ten Scandal in Dallas where no "fraud" was found by BSA but numbers dropped by 30-40%

 

Atlanta's "independent" audit found just over 5,000 scouts (with a little mentioned 3,400 "active"). Depending on when you check, BSA claimed 15,000 or 10,000 members in this disadvantaged youth program. Oh, and the "audit" checked only 68 units of 482 claimed (were those all they could find?). Black Scoutmasters in Atlanta have staged protests removing their SCout shirts and say they'd be surprised if there were mnore than 500 scouts. Operation PUSH - a civil rights group - is daring BSA to muster even 1000 scouts in this program.

 

You have a whole thread here "Where is the outrage?" over one more politician's comments. Well, where is the outrage over this? Why Aren't volunteer leaders screaming over the abysmal behavior being shown by HIGHLY PAID STAFFERS? Instead everyone sighs or shrugs. Some are more outraged that such things are even mentioned - more outraged than at the bad behavior recounted.

 

How come "the good old boys" in BSA's paid professional corps make hundreds of thousands of dollars and get to keep their jobs even when caught violating the law - not once but twice. Is the standard for "fraud" 100% overstatement? Is 30% so common that it doesn't even raise an eyebrow?

 

BSA seems to have inverted what "character" means now. How come so many of those that did the right thing in Idaho are out of Scouting now while all those that covered things up got promoted?

 

http://www.postregister.com/scouts_honor/part5.php

 

 

Read through and note the details NOT reported elsewhere.

 

From 15,000 (not the lower 10,000 number BSA publicizes now - c'mon doe sit really improve tings when you're overstating by ONLY 100% instead of 200% ???) to 5,361 BUT ONLY 3,485 were active and THIS was based on a SAMPLE audit 68 out of 482 !!?????!!!

 

Beasley of Operation PUSH/Rainbow Coalition is right not to trust the "audited" claims. ONLY 68 units were checked - or were those the only units they could find?

 

When is BSA leadership simply going to stand up to the plate and DO WHAT IS RIGHT!?

 

One of the few "successful" Troops has apparently lost any faith in BSA as a result of all this. Who is hurt?

 

ALL volunteers should be demanding that National stop the BS focus on "numbers" and own up. Read teh explanations of what is OK. I'm appalled at such moral and ethical "shortcutting." ANY paid staffer that lies is out. NO EXCUSES.

 

 

 

The PURPOSE of mypostings are to point out that in too many cases (including my Council) BSA is failing abysmally to live up to the "high standards of character" they espouse. The VOLUNTEERS are NOT the problem, the PAID staffers are. Those objecting to my posts should try volunteer to take on our SE when theirs leaves. THEN they can comment. When two Councils have raised the same complaints about a professional, HE is the problem. WHen BSA does nothing, BSA is the problem.

 

BSA does NOT take action to hold PAID staff accountable for their failures to follow the Scout Law unless they are given no choice in the matter. Atlanta's SE "quit" only because Operation PUSH/Rainbow Coalition has kept a vigilant eye on the issue and a truly OUTSIDE audit occurred. Claims of 10-15,000 members were clearly false. Just over 5,000 were found.

 

In Alabama, their SE was involved in the Dallas enrollment scandal in 2000. No "fraud" was found by the internal BSA audit but enrollments were restated to be 30-40% lower. Sorry, that is fraud - or a level of incompetence in record keeping that deserves to have those in charge fired.

 

BSA's own focus on "statistics" encourages SE's to lie about numbers. When they do so, it seems that there are NO consequences. When volunteers try to hold BSA accountable to the values they claim, the VOLUNTEERS are punished. THat has happened here in my Council and in too many others.

 

If there was a real desire by BSA to put an end to this it would have stopped decades ago. But National plays its own games with numbers.

 

Someday, BSA may realize that you can't make "character" the focus of your organization if you're failing to insist on it by those that are supposed to be running things.

 

BSA is SUPPOSED to be run and controlled by its volunteer members. It is supposed to be a "representative democracy" but it is not. BSA is noww like too many other corporations - run by its executives for their own benefit.

 

Some Councils are well-run and have professional staff dedicated to the ideals of Scouting. If yours is one of them, great. Make sure it stays that way.

 

However too many are not. Too many paid professionals are an embarassment to Scouting - yet they continue in their career with no repurcussions, damaging Scouting wherever they go. BSA should not tolerate this situation. BSA should encourage volunteers to keep staffers honest, not punish them for trying to do so.

 

Enrollment fraud should mean immediate dismissal. But this is almost institutionallized in BSA. Counts are deliiberately done to maximize claims. If counts were made on a "School-year" basis, BSA would be reporting accurate enrollments, not a guaranteed to be inflated number that still counts non-returning boys with those actually active (old and new) at year end. If that's OK, well why not count boys not seen in a while. WHy not count those that "expressed interest".....why not simply make kids up wholesale?

 

BSA is on a slippery moral slope. "Learning for LIfe" does not require the same membership criteria that Boy Scouts does becuse it wouldn't exist otherwise. Without LFL - a program of varying effectiveness and impact - BSA would be showing absolute declines in membership.

 

BSA drives out those dedicated to the values of Scouting in situations like these. In Councils where sexual abuse has been covered up, and scandals have occurred, the Scouting program is damaged for decades. The dedicated Scouters that are the core of Scouting in their communities leave, disillusioned and disappointed.

 

WHen will BSA simply learn that "doing what is right" is actually the easiest - and best - course?

Well, 30% overstatement and it looks like half of the "youth served" were Learning for Life - which has been manipulated routinely in the past all over in efforts to boost numbers.

 

But the guy who blew the whistle got thrown out. One of the media reports on this early on had a quote about a volunteer "getting removed from Scouting if he pushed the issue." Well, it got pushed, BSA was lying again and the whistle blower got nailed. This shows what BSA does to those who raise questions. Given that one of those involved in the Dallas fraud was involved here and no report has surfaced about PAID staff getting fired yet...this simply smells to high heaven.

 

BSA got caught with their pants down again but the guy that stood up publicly got slandered. It sounds like he got set up - or the SE used ANY excuse he could find.

 

In a more naive past I might wonder myself if maybe the volunteer was the problem, but his claims about numbers are proving out - to the Council's embarassment.

 

As far as his removal, the same thing happened here and it's happened elsewhere. GOOD dedicated leaders get slandered and thrown out of BSA when they stand up to paid staffers who are "misbehaving."

 

I would NOT believe what BSA claims in cases like this because they DO lie about what happens when they remove someone. Here BSA removed a longtime leader who spoke out and angered the SE. After a year they still haven't given him a reason for his removal and he's still waiting for BSA to rule on his appeal before he can go to court. But the issues he raised have only gotten worse.

 

As far as the "numbers" - well the "John Doe" justification seems to have disappeared. Now there's an "excuse" about needing to find new chartering organizations. Fictitious members and dead units do NOT reappear simply when new chartering organizations are found. In ALL cases where new chartering organizations are needed for a REAL unit, that happens real quick because the UNIT doesn't want to let their charter lapse. It doesn't take much effort. Sounds like these were really dead units (or complete fictions) and they won't be coming back from the dead.

 

The fact that Learning for Life had more "members" than Scouting in this Council has to raise serious questions as well.

 

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/1117876627261150.xml&coll=2

 

Scouts, Cubs' rolls off nearly 6,000

 

22 counties show losses since FBI's inquiry into padding

Saturday, June 04, 2005

 

KELLI HEWETT TAYLOR and JEFF HANSEN

News staff writers

The number of boys listed on Boy Scout and Cub Scout rolls for the 22 counties of north Alabama has plummeted by 5,863.

 

The Greater Alabama Council of the Boy Scouts of America, which includes Jefferson, Shelby and 20 other counties, went from 19,280 boys in May 2004 to 13,417 last month, a decline of 30 percent, council figures show.

 

The numbers have dropped since the FBI began probing allegations that the council padded membership rolls to boost grants and other financial contributions. FBI spokesman Jeff Fuqua said the investigation was still under way.

 

Scout officials provided the figures to The Birmingham News on Friday after a newspaper request. Officials declined to be interviewed about reasons for the decline but provided a written statement.

 

Legal concerns

 

"One of our major reasons is because of the threat of litigation by the ACLU of government, military and schools which are chartered partners for our traditional Scouting programs," said a faxed statement from Randy Haines, board chairman for the Greater Alabama Council.

 

"We currently have 147 units that fall into the above category that are not registered and will not be registered until we find new chartered partners during the summer and fall."

 

Haines' statement says the council expects to find partners by the end of the year and re-register those members.

 

Haines' statement also says a drop in its other program, a school-based character development program called Learning for Life, has been hit by state school budget cuts and a loss of several grants. The result is a decline from 29,683 members in May 2004 to 15,045 in May 2005. The Scouts' executive committee voted Thursday to find the additional money to restore the program for the next school year.

 

Scout membership figures were initially released to the newspaper by Decatur Boy Scout leader Tom Willis, a dentist, Eagle Scout and Scout executive board member who has criticized Scout officials for inflating their rolls. The Greater Alabama Council reviewed those documents, then supplied to The News a set of updated figures, which include 275 additional Cub Scouts and Boy Scouts.

 

Wednesday, the council banned Willis from contact with the Scouts.

 

A May 27 council letter to Willis says he was dismissed because of complaints that he "solicited and participated in an inappropriate sexual relationship with (a married female Scout volunteer) at Scout functions."

 

"This is because I questioned the board," Willis said. "I'm not surprised. The intimidation has been going on for years. I've heard them say they will remove the people who have spoken out."

 

Contentions

 

The council letter also says Willis was uncooperative and not forthright during an interview about the alleged sexual relationship, and that he was "grossly inappropriate" in an e-mail he sent to the council.

 

Willis said that, in an attempt to show the woman's character, he e-mailed Scout officials a nude photo of her posing on a boat and wearing only a Boy Scout hat. Willis says someone else snapped the picture and sent him a copy.

 

Willis said the photo was reportedly taken a few hours after a Scout trip officially ended. Willis said neither he nor any Scouts were present.

 

Willis, who is married, says there was no affair. He plans to appeal the Scouts' dismissal decision, which he believes is retaliation for criticizing the organization.

 

Scout attorney David Smith, another volunteer member of the executive committee, denied that Willis was kicked out for his complaints.

 

"That is completely false," said Smith, who helped investigate Willis. "None of us would allow any sort of retaliation to occur. The two issues (of membership complaints and the alleged affair) are completely separate and unrelated."

 

United Way

 

Smith said the executive committee has decided to hire an outside accounting firm to complete the investigation.

 

In the statement given to the newspaper, the council reported:

 

A drop in Cub Scout enrollment from 11,638 to 7,710.

 

A drop in Boy Scout enrollment from 7,642 to 5,707.

 

An increase in Venturing unit enrollment (for boys and girls ages 14 to 20) from 1,351 to 1,573.

 

The council has not given any update in membership numbers to the United Way of Central Alabama, said United Way spokeswoman Samuetta Nesbitt.

 

United Way has allocated $8.1 million to the Greater Alabama Council over the past 10 years, including $940,855 for this year, United Way records show. In January, the FBI subpoenaed Boy Scout records from United Way.

 

Some other Boy Scout councils across the United States are facing challenges to their membership claims. In Atlanta, the top executive of the Atlanta Area Council resigned and took responsibility for falsified records after an audit showed that the council had inflated its minority membership by nearly 5,000.

 

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution has reported that Scout staffers in Atlanta inflated blacks' membership because they feared they would lose their jobs if they missed their assigned quotas.

 

The United Way of Metropolitan Atlanta withheld $945,000 of Scout funding while the audit was under way, spokesman Mark Dvorak said.

 

E-mail: ktaylor@bhamnews.com

 

 

 

2005 The Birmingham News

2005 al.com All Rights Reserved.

BSA did their own "audit" in Texas in 2000 and found no fraud though enrollment numbers dropped 30-40%. Currently there are fraud reports from FL - boys left on rosters long after gone, AL - the "John Doe living at Council headquarters is for their protection", Or where a PAID staffer is suing after being forced to resign when he refused to go along with fraudulend disabled Scout units. Atlanta overstated membership by 100%. Interestingly a Council in NH is now conducting an audit - THEIR SE came from Atlanta within the year and though "they have confidence in his leadership....." C'mon - if Atlanta was overstating at that level, this was longstanding......

 

Our Council is scrambling to "correct" numbers after being challenged - a 30-40% drop from claimed enrollments sure seems more like fraud than simple errors. Our DE claimed 400 more than even the inflated "official" numbers for our District to get Quality status. He is getting a promotion and is the keynote speaker at our Council Eagle Dinner. But the only time he was seen areound here was to ask for money - meanwhile one of the units in our community, begging for help they never got (because the old commissioners had been replaced with never seen political appointments) folded. No way did he do all he claimed for Quality Status. No way do we have the numbers claimed. We are LOSING members at a rate 10 times the claimed "growth" rate.

 

Hypocrisy is hypocrisy and you can't afford to be "shortcutting" on "character" when that is the claimed strength of your organization, its "raison d'etre."

 

If a paid professional lies about numbers, it should be his job. But as someone else posted, BSA protects their own. One of those behind the Dallas fraud surfaced again in the current Alabama one. Only when there are outside voices screaming (Operation PUSH/Rainbow Coalition in Atlanta) and keeping a close wathc on the resulting OUTSIDE audit does BSA do the "right" thing. THAT is truly sad.

 

ALL of this comes from the professional ranks. Volunteers have no reason to lie about numbers. VOlunteers have been the ones calling in outside authorities when paid staff told them to "shut up" or get removed from Scouting - as reported out of AL.

 

About the whole "character" issue..... Isn't this just one more sign of the "moral malaise"

 

Quoting a DE, BSA is preoccupied with superficial measures of success - enrollment numbers, money and "quality" measures

 

Hence the scandals over enrollment numbers.

 

A SE is expected to achieve Quality Council status, so DE's are under pressure to get "Quality District." To get Quality District, you have to have "Quality Units."

 

Even when caught fudging all this there's no consequences. Our DE lied about the numbers in our District - by a large factor. You can see where numbers were changed on his worksheet - they were so blatant they didn't even care how transparent this was.

 

One of our local units makes a great deal of their "Quality Unit" status - yet their leaders routinely ignore BSA rules on all topics - notably on safety. But they raise money for Council and help boost numbers. They claim 50 kids but had 8 visible at a local event. Another unit - with less on the roster had 3-4 times more boys there. Makes you wonder.........

 

Such a press release just invites sarcastic comments. A not inaccurate re-titling could be:

 

"BSA Unprepared to Make Challenging Ethical Decisions."

 

"Scouting" is and has been a positive influence on youth. It does prepare youth to make moral and ethical choices - when they have good and dedicated leaders showing character.

 

You think with all the enrollment fraud, abuse cover-ups and the head of youth protection distributing child porn, BSA might be a bit wary of trying to claim that BSA is somehow responsible for boys making ethical decisions. Its obvious that far too many of their own paid staff don't have a clue what's moral and ethical.

 

By the way, how is it that BSA is claiming "4.1 million youth served" in this press release? That doesn't corresponds to anything "official" I can find.

 

BSA National "Traditional Scouting" numbers are DOWN again for 2004 - now about 3.1 million compared to 3.2 million last year. This is 5 years of decreases and about a millon less than 15 years ago (with an increased pool of boys now).

 

Unfortunately BSA the corporation and too many of its paid staffers are clearly NOT making ethical decisions. The whole issue of enrollment fraud - stemming from an unrelenting focus on numbers - arises from a failure to behave ethically. When BSA and its paid employees fail to show the character BSA demands of us, the reputation of Scouting is hurt.

 

Volunteer Leaders know when "Quality" status is being fudged. We know when numbers are being manipulated to claim "growth" when there are losses. It's really a bit hard to hide a double digit percentage loss and officially claim "growth." Dead units and boys not seen in years....all the classic "errors" that overstate enrollments are here - and in too many other Councils.

 

There are few consequences for the paid staffers caught in the act. As another pointed out, one of those in the Alabama Scandal was involved in the Texas scandal a few years earlier. No "fraud" was found but enrollments ended up 30% lower. The "growth" we supposedly had here seems to be melting under closer examination. Yet our DE is getting promoted out of here after inflating enrollment by a third to claim "Quality District"

 

BSA wants to be "private" and not comply with US law but does all it can to gain preferential treatment and aid from the government....BSA screams when the dreaded ACLU sues to have BSA comply with the law like everyone else and then seeks exemption from those laws.... is that moral and ethical?

 

When the "true believers" - those dedicated to the values Scouting supposedly espouses clearly see the problems - and BSA does nothing........it's a bit hypocritical to be talking about "ethical" decisions.

 

Our May District Meeting was a revelation. It seems that Executive Board Members were questioned on enrollment numbers recently - not sure of the circumstances. This was after Council leadership made a big deal of "We don't do that here" when the Alabama scandal broke in the media. Sure.

 

Well, the "corrected" report for our District now has dead units gone and enrollment figures are down "substantially." Our unit still was getting membership cards for kids not seen in two years though.

 

One leader did an analysis of past enrollment reports and passed it around. Now, maybe I'm being cynical but when you have a 40% DECREASE between the year end numbers claimed to earn "Quality District" status and the "official" numbers now in May, something stinks. Sure seems like the fraud being reported elsewhere. NO consequences for paid staff behind the goosing of the numbers. Our DE is leaving for a promotion. The "investigation" has been kept super quiet....change the numbers and hope nobody notices. The sad part is that even WITH the "goosed" numbers Council could only claim 1% "growth." I wonder what the truth is and if they'll restate Council claims. It's clear that the year end numbers weren't "accurate." We're not even close to the enrollments we had 5 years back.

 

A report on FOS status showed three of five Districts reporting $0 under "leadership" contributions with minimal contributions in one of the remaining two. One District shows higher contributions but most is due to a few large givers. This follows last year's pattern. Unit leaders are fed up with our SE and Executive Board and are simply not giving.

 

District and Council positions are going unfilled and events "unrun." Well, positions ARE being filled - in name only with people we've never heard of or old Socuters not seen for a decade. Our Pinewood runoff had a pathetic 19 kids instead of the usual 80-100. No volunteers would run the event.

 

Are kids being hurt by all this? Yes. But the best volunteers we have are truly fed up and feel that letting this all continue is doing far worse damage to Scouting here.

 

Senior volunteer leaders complained to National about our SE shortly after he arrived. He has pushed any opponents off the Executive Board. He's puttin in his own people and setting 2 year limits so nobody will be around long enough to see what's happening. He's put his own people in volunteer leadership positions. Don't even try to complain - you'll get your head chopped off. People who have given years to Scouting have been hurt and pushed away from Scouting.

 

Things are falling apart and everyone knows it but nothing is being done. An effort to organize COR's to oust the SE failed - few expected it to succeed but the SE took great pains to make sure it wouldn't work......it's all quite sad actually. Volunteers have walked away from District and Council and more than a few are thinking about leaving even unit leadership posts.

 

Two of the four Silver Beaver awards this year went to short serving Board Members, further angering Scouters who've been involved for years or even decades.

 

What DOES it take to get rid of a bad SE?

 

When will BSA realize that they are their own worst enemy?

Covering up the misdeeds and poor performance of their own paid staffers does more damage to BSA than anything else. The PAID staff are the ones behind all the enrollment scandals. Volunteers see the hypocrisy. We're punished for expecting paid staff to show some character.

 

This Council HAS been sent a loud and clear message in many ways. Volunteers by the hundreds protested the removal of a paid staffer. A hundred showed up at a Board Meeting to air their complaints only to have the Board literally run away. Volunteers are no longer supporting Council with time or money. Numbers are down despite being "goosed."

 

Some here have questioned why I'm complaining. Am I supposed to stand by idly while a program I care about, a program I and others worked so hard to build is destroyed by someone who simply cannot do his job?

 

 

And all this happened before at our SE's previous Council. From this forum's own archives:

 

Re: Friends of Scouting (FOS). No longer participating

Ed Henderson (BigEdBSA@AOL.COM)

Mon, 20 Jan 1997 15:37:07 -0500

 

For years I have been not only an active council, district and unit volunteer

but also a participant in our council's fund raising program. I have not

only contributed to SME and now FOS but was on the team that raised the money

in our district (and made our goal each of the last three years). I even

made a $500 donation a few years ago to a special account I set up to pay for

non mandatory camp staff training (Nature Directors, Red Cross Training,

etc.). Last year I wanted to recognize my father for his 35 years of service

to Scouting and made a West Donation to our council.

 

 

This year I made a difficult decision and have planned to not contribute a

dime to Flint River Council, sell a kernel of popcorn, and I have not yet

decided about the Scout Show tickets set for next month. The reason is our

new Scout Executive. He has alienated more volunteers in our council since

arriving than I could imagine possible. Our JLT Scoutleader for the past

several years refuses to have anything more to do with the council and many

volunteers are put off. Over half of the professional staff departed in the

first few months after our SE arrived, and everyone of them were pleased to

have landed a transfer. Even simple letters, kindly writtten from one of our

older Explorer Posts to our SE asking that we establish the Spuregon Awards

in our council was ignored and not responded too.

 

 

In short, I am perfectly willing to donate to my council when I judge my

council worthy of that money. Since I still support Scouting I will donate

my funds to other causes either at the unit level or perhaps to NESA

Scholarships or some other national fund. Until our 33 year old Scout

Executive gets promoted to head of Supply Division (maybe he can fix their

crashed computers) or some desk job in Texas I will do nothing to sustain

him.