AnniePoo

I should clarify: We ate lunch and supper as a big group, but people ate breakfast at different times after they got up. We had cereal, fruit, and oatmeal available, and typically pancakes or french toast and sausage or scrambled eggs. And coffee, of course. If you have the right equipment available, it's easy to cook a lot of that stuff quickly on somewhat of a make-to-order basis. It worked better for us to allow people to sleep in if they wanted, as long as we had people that were willing to cook breakfast over a period of a couple of hours. Plus, not everyone likes to eat breakfast the instant they get up. Breakfast and dishes were always completely done by about 9 a.m. or so.

When I was in the pack, we cooked and ate as a group. Mix of foil pack, dutch oven, griddle over the fire, and griddle over camping stoves. I picked the menu, purchased the food, and brought the cooking equipment. Parents and scouts helped with cooking & cleaning duties (age appropriate duties for the kids). Note that we always had healthy snacks out for the cubs, and then didn't expect them to eat a huge supper. Snacks were stuff like fruit, veggies, and pretzels, and we rotated between them throughout the day. Because the kids were running around all day, we figured that snacking all during the day was more important than eating a huge supper. Parents took turns with snack prep, like cutting up apples & veggies.

Meal planning for a large group is key so that you achieve a good balance of low cost, variety, and speed of preparation. You don't want anything hugely complicated, but you don't want anything too boring, either. Don't attempt stuff that takes too long to cook, especially for lunch, unless you know you'll be able to get it started early enough (i.e. desserts in dutch ovens). We had 3-4 things at each meal, so finicky kids or adults always had something they would eat. Get an experienced camper involved in realistic meal planning, or check with a Boy Scout troop if you need feedback.

As someone else mentioned, you must educate the parents not to bring crappy snacks along, like chips, pop, and candy. If that stuff is around, that's all the kids will want to eat.

If you don't have cooking equipment available for a large group, borrow from your local Boy Scout troop.

"That was the best trip I've ever been on!"

I'm out of the pack now, but the Cubs always like an outdoor pack meeting with a bonfire. Boy Scouts helped with fire management & safety.

That's fantastic that your troop has access to sea kayaks and an experienced paddler to teach them!!!

We're kind of on the lower end of the paddling spectrum. Hubby and I have ten rec kayaks that we use extensively with our troop (small windy rivers and also the lake that our Scout House is on). We also have access to others that we can borrow for larger groups, as well as numerous canoes. We're going to try whitewater kayaking at a different council's scout camp (Gardner Dam) next spring, and are planning a sea kayaking trip (rentals with a guide) to Apostle Islands within the next year or so. Rec kayaks kind of plod along compared to sea kayaks or touring kayaks, but I think they have a place in scout programs. They're a good segway into all sorts of other water activities. The scouts seem to like single boats, vs. tandem canoes, because they can "do their own thing".

Getting the scouts on the water, in one form or another, has been tremendously beneficial to our troop. We've also revamped our outdoor and high-adventure programs as well, but I think the water-related activities are the biggest draw. We've doubled in size the last couple of years, with most of the scouts as active participants.

My background is in food microbiology/food safety. In most cases when you want to disinfect a already "cleaned" food prep surface, 1% bleach (i.e. about 1 part bleach + 99 parts water) is appropriate. There needs to be some sort of contact time, however, for the bleach to do it's job. Hence, the bleach step should be after the wash and rinse steps. The time it takes for the 1% bleach solution to air dry should be sufficient. And don't measure exactly 1 part in 99 parts -- guesstimating is good enough. A cap of bleach in about a gallon is close enough.

Please note that higher levels of bleach (~10%) and longer contact time (~20 minutes) are highly recommended if there are still significant amounts of organic materials (soil, food, etc.) present. I'd also increase the bleach concentration if you're dealing with dishes that have been used to prep stuff like raw chicken or raw hamburger (fairly high likelihood of nasty pathogens present).

Also note that bleach can cause pitting on the surface of stainless steel over time. So, if you have some good stainless camping pots or dishes that you want to last for the next thirty years, add a final water rinse to those dishes after the bleach sanitizer step.

Having said all that, do I use a sanitizer step when car camping with my family? No. Did I carry bleach with me on our last backpacking trip? No.(This message has been edited by AnniePoo)

Depends on the Boy Scout. We have three ASD Scouts in our troop, and IMO only one of them has the social interactions skills to work with Cubs, whether the Cubs are ASD are not. ASD covers a very wide range.

Our troop has a variety, including some Alps Mountaineering tents. My personal recommendation for a 4-man tent that will stay dry and is VERY durable is the REI Camp Dome 4. I have 3 of these personally, which I've used used extensively with Boy Scouts and for many years in Cub Scouts. They stood up to two years of camping with my Webelos den, with hardly a scratch.

For car camping, I think that 4-man tents are the most versatile, fitting 2-3 scouts. (We have separate tents available for backpacking).

Hantavirus has been reported in numerous U.S. states, but is cases are significantly more prevalent in the southwest. Please be cautious about activities with scouts in areas where rodent droppings may be present. Additional info is available at CDC's website at:

http://www.cdc.gov/hantavirus/

Got back yesterday from a 12-day trip to Glacier National Park with 21 troop & crew members. Included backcountry trips. Had a blast.

We have three Noah's tarps in our family camping stash, too, and the troop has used them car camping also. (Bringing all three on our troop/crew trip to Glacier NP -- leaving tomorrow).

We've switched to 12 x 12 EZ-ups. Take 5 minutes to set up and 5 minutes to take down.

The behavior of the scout in my den with ODD was waaaayyyy beyond just a disobedient child, a kid without limits set by parents, or a severe case of ADHD, etc. I've dealt with a lot of kids with behavior issues in scouting over the years, and this kid was on a seperate level. It was clear to me before I heard of ODD that his kid had a different process going on, and a clearly organic one.

I had an experience similar to 5yearscouter (undiagnosed ODD, clueless parents, etc.). Fortunately, about a year into Webelos, the boy and his family moved out of town. I've dealt with a LOT of kids and a wide variety of behavior issues, but this kid's behaviors were serious and getting worse quickly. First and only time I was glad a kid dropped out of scouting.

For anyone that thinks that ODD is just a badly behaved kid, look up additional information about ODD. It's pretty bad.

"Besides, maybe you don't realize it, but it's really obnoxious for the trip leader to have to deal with Scouts coming and going other than with the group."

While as a trip leader I strongly agree with this, it sounds like this was unusual case, with school (correctly) being a priority.

However, I don't buy the argument about the small backseat. As long as there are enough seatbelts, you can cram kids in a vehicle. We've had many trips where gear was packed on and around the kids. Sure, they may not have as much room as they typically do in the back of the family's ginormous SUV, but they'll be fine, even for five hours.

I was our primary pack camping person back in the Cub days, and organization of our pack family campouts was similar to that of Scoutfish. We camped primarily in group sites at state parks, which worked well since there was usually good trails, nature programs, etc.

Food/camping -- having each family fend for themselves seems unnecessary and waaaayyyyy to disorganized. If you're personally not willing to take this on, see if you can find a parent that is an experienced camper that would be willing to plan just the food and meals, and coordinate cooking (with volunteers). We charged $5 per person per night of camping, and kept the menu pretty simple. Ask a local Boy Scout troop if they have cooking equipment they'd let you borrow. Heck, you may even find a Boy Scout leader, or former leader, that is willing to go on the trip with you and just do the meal planning and cooking. Have lots of (healthy) snacks available all of the time, like apples, fruit, carrots, pretzels, etc. I'd go through about 3 bags of apples on each Webelos campout. Make SURE that you let parents know ahead of time that they shouldn't bring chips, soda, etc. Ask about food allergies, but other than that, have somewhat of a variety of food, including making sure there is enough for vegetarians. If a kid won't eat what is served, and the food is perfectly fine, that's too bad. It will usually only take one missed meal before they get hungry enough to eat the next meal.

Camp fires - no reason to have more than one for the whole group. It would be impossible to have adequate supervision for multiple fires.

siblings - absolutely allowed, but parent/guardian supervises them. Make it clear to parents ahead a time that they, not den leaders, are responsible for supervising their kids. If another parent is willing to take a second scout on the trip with them, that's between those parents. In that case, only the "guest" scout, and not siblings, are allowed. Let all parents know ahead of time that a scout is ABSOLUTELY NOT allowed to sleep in the tent of an adult that is not their parent/guardian.

BSA guidelines - trip leaders should read and understand all Guide to Safe Scouting requirements that would be applicable for the trip. No paddling. No swimming unless all Safe Swim Defense requirements are met (including adult with current CPR certification). As others have mentioned, at least one BALOO-trained leader must be present for the entire trip.

activities - no electronics allowed in campsite (if parents allow them in the vehicles on the way to and from the campsite, that's up to them.). Have people bring fun games & outdoor stuff that they'd be willing to share with others, and make sure they don't bring anything that they'd be upset to have broken. I brought knot-tying stuff, card games, books like Calvin & Hobbes for the kids to read, etc. We had some scheduled activities (hike mid-morning, fishing & swimming in afternoon, etc.), but left plenty of open time for the kids to play in the campsite. Our pack wasn't into formal campfire programs, so we didn't do that, except for sharing of lots of really bad jokes.

In general, the types of activities you do will be driven by the location of the trip as well as the time of year.

Other -- get a gear list (necessary and optional stuff) to families well in advance of the trip. On the signup sheet, have a section for "do you have any extra camping equipment (tent, etc.) that you'd be willing to loan out". Again, your local Boy Scout troop(s) will likely have tents and other equipment that they'd be willing to loan out. I found on our Webelos campouts that we had many families with just one tent. The parents would sleep there, and the Webelos would sleep in other tents that we'd borrow for them.

Bring extra flashlights. Prepare for some rain just in case (canopy tent, etc.) but also be willing to cancel if the weather is going to be really cruddy. I always made the call on Thursday evening (before buying all of the food) if the weather was threatening. In 5 years of pack & Webelos campouts, I think I ended up cancelling two campouts due to weather.

Make sure that parents know that there will be no alcohol on the trip. No bringing out a small cooler with a 12-pack for around the campfire after the kids have gone to bed. No leaving to the neighborhood bar for a cocktail or two after the kids have gone to bed. I used to tell parents in the information packet Q & A that if they need to smoke, just do it outside the view of the scouts. If they can't go a weekend without a drink, then either they shouldn't go on the campout or should just come during the day.

No pets allowed either. It amazes me how many people want to be their dog on a trip like this ("but he's so well behaved......"). I leave my dog & cats at home, and so will everyone else.

Also in the Q & A: Watch your language around the scouts. Watch your kids to make sure they are behaving in a scout-like behavior. Backup your leaders when the leader is telling your child to do something or not do something. Arguments are not allowed. The campout is to have fun, and be a positive experience (although the kids are expected to behave).

Scouts went to bed no later than 9:00. Adults could stay up later around the campfire, but were reminded to be quiet.

The first one you organize is by far the hardest. It's all downhill from there.

Timely subject -- I got back an hour ago from a week at BS camp with our troop. We have a no-cell-phone policy with the boys, and they do just fine with it. I agree that if you allow a homesick child to call home, they will be going home. Also, scouts don't get to use my cell phone to call their parents to bring them non-essential stuff that they forgot. I bring extra bug spray, suntan lotion, pillows, flashlights, etc., as well as cards, some other games, comic books, etc., so if they forgot their favorite pillow, that's a bummer! We'll let a (non-homesick) scout call his mom or dad if they accomplished something really amazing, however, like mile swim.

We had one truly sick scout with a 101 degree fever, and I called Mom & Dad right away to have them pick him up. Parents have to trust the leaders. If they don't, why would they allow their kids in the troop????

Also, I don't want to be getting calls from parents during the week unless it's very important, or something a like a scheduling change for when little Johnny is getting picked up for his dentist appointment. We had one parent repeatedly call early in the week to make sure little Johnny wasn't eating too many slushies, was getting enough sleep, etc. Every one of those calls ate up about 20 minutes of my time while I was trying to take care of important camp or scout matters.

Most parents "get it", but one or two each year don't get it. Generally the ones that don't get it are the ones that have never had to supervise more than their child. The ones who "get it" are the ones who trust us, allow their son to be independent, but do thoughtful things like bringing ice cream to the campsite during siesta on a 95 degree day.

A friendly but firm e-mail to parents BEFORE camp, laying it on the line why we do things like we do, and why there are certain camp rules, goes a long way toward getting the parents on board before camp

We had a GREAT time again this year.

She needs feedback, but the only way for her to do that is to put it in a manner that is readable. I really mean that. Ninety percent of people on online forums will not read a wall-o-text such as was in the original post. Thus, if she doesn't calm down and do a rewrite, her message will not reach her intended audience.

That's the reality of the internet.

I agree with JMHawkins on this one.

Since 1919. We're already planning a big event for 100th anniversary.

The space bar and return key are your friends. The caps lock key is not your friend.

Really.

I'm sorry, but your post is impossible to read. I gave up after the second sentence because my eyes were hurting. We are willing to read and comment, but you first need to re-write with (1) paragraphs; (2) no ALL CAPS (it is considered to be "yelling" and rude); and (3) readable sentences.(This message has been edited by AnniePoo)

Absolutely, although the meetings are more informal. Our Scout House is on a small lake in town, so the kids go fishing, exploring, paddling, etc.

We are in a cold climate, so there are many outdoor activities we can only do easily and/or safely in summer.

Poor listener and/or poor communicator.