AnniePoo

Distance makes a HUGE difference. I'd go to every roundtable, but they are an hour away. Thus, me (CC) and CM trade off.

OK, next time I"m going to bring copies of instructions for our water bottle rocket launchers, and a prototype to share. Maybe I can start a trend, and others will start bringing interesting ideas as well. What's that quote - "Be the change you want to see in the world". I think that's it.

Very interesting about the ownership/custody issues. Liability issues would be my main concern. Me and the other leaders that are interested in this are so paranoid about safety with the scouts that I'm sure we'd go overboard (yeah, bad pun) with training, safety measures, safe transport of boats, etc. I think we'll be OK with transport with one family owning a 8-kayak trailer, as well as others families having other transport methods. Fortunately, in our state, registration of kayaks and canoes is optional, so that would save us a chunk of change.

Thanks for the input, particularly about the liability issues. We're just trying to think ahead a bit. I obviously need to clarify that we do NOT have Cub Scout paddling outings. However, there are many families in the pack that enjoy paddling as a family, and we've taken many of our kids' friends paddling and camping on our family trips (never anything even remotely scout-related). We have kid-sized kayaks, and I have a pretty good idea of what kind we'd need. We have some good canoes also.

Yep, PFD's and paddles would be expensive, but we're already discussing how best we would handle the ongoing expense of boat maintenance and PFD/paddle replacement. I guess I figured that we'd loan equipment to other Troops, but heck, renting would be better! There's a great paddling shop in a nearby city, and they have staff available for training or guidance if we need it. I'm also a member of the local paddling club. There's a great lake nearby (shallow, small, calm) that I usually use as a paddling training ground before taking any novice on a river.

Although I'm a Cub Leader, I do realize that Troops should be boy-led. Indeed, my fellow Webelo I leader and I are getting the pack & Webelo camping program started again realizing that we need to train the boys to camp with increasing independence so they are ready for Boy Scout camping. Given the great level of interest for paddling in our Bears and Webelo I's, I guess I'm hoping to encourage (or convince) the boys that a paddling program would be a great, and let them run the show as much as possible. We're taking the Webelo I's (and pack as a whole) car camping with hopes that it will spark an interest in backpack camping either as Boy Scouts or on their own as they get older. Similarly, I hope they'll be interested in basic paddling at least at first, and will become interested later in more challenging paddling such as whitewater and sea kayaking. You just need to get that initial spark of interest in them, then hope they run with it.

Thanks again!

Any troops out there own your own kayak and/or canoe fleets? We have a lot of paddlers in our pack, and a few of us are interested in getting a serious paddling program started when our scouts join the local Troop. We think we have enough contacts in the paddling community to get donations of seaworthy beginners vessels in good condition, and are curious about liability issues, insurance, etc. Families with their own kayaks or canoes would likely paddle their own boats. We'd paddle little lakes, little rivers, etc., not large lakes, cold water, or whitewater. Trailers would be available to haul and we'd follow stringent paddling safety practices, including having a couple of adults scout all trip areas before scouts are involved.

Any feedback would be helpful.

Thanks!

Webelo, although Tiger is fun because the kids can get so excited about almost anything.

I agree with eagle90 and dancinfox. Specific ideas of outings, ideas, (new) songs, skits, crafts, projects, fundraisers, etc. would be tremendously useful to me and other pack members who are newbies to scouting. I don't want to hear a 10-minute presentation from someone - printed information or a very brief summary would be great.

Shoeboxes.

Minnow races. Use sealed sections of rain gutter (just like with a Rain Gutter Regatta).

"The concept that some people might be embarrassed because they can't afford an event and drop out of Scouts is silly"

No, it's not silly. Even though many packs (like ours) offer confidential financial assistance for any or all events, some parents find it embarassing to take such assistance. We try to do as much free stuff as possible. Ten dollars might be nothing to one family and might be an impossibly amount of money to another family depending on their current situation.

Definitely take OWL so you can take the den camping. While you're at it, convince this next year's Bear leader(s) to take it with you, so they are ready to camp next summer. It's a fun course.

I'm a food microbiologist, and I work in a research lab with bacteria that cause food poisoning. Here's the scoop about E. coli:

There are thousands of strains of E. coli, and most do not make you sick. Indeed, many live in your intestinal track (along with other bacteria), and don't cause any problems. However, there are some strains that will make you sick. Usually, when people talk about dangerous E. coli, they are referring to enterohemorrhagic strains like E. coli O157:H7, which causes bloody diarrhea and causes serious kidney problems in about 10% of the kids it infects.

These kinds of E. coli can be carried in many animals without symptoms, and are shed in their feces. Thus, they can contaminate meats, certain types of produce, raw milk, and other agricultural products. Sufficient cooking will kill these organisms, but you have to be careful about cross-contamination between things like raw hamburger and other foods that will be eaten raw. Aside from outbreaks of E. coli O157:H7 food poisoning caused by raw or undercooked meats, numerous outbreaks from this organisms and related strains of E. coli have been linked to raw milk, unpasteurized (i.e. unheated) apple cider, sprouts, and fruits and vegetables. Washing fruits and vegetables does NOT necessarily get rid of all of these organisms.

Although the nasty kinds of E. coli can cause serious illness even in adults, it can also cause milder illness. Thus, someone might not realize they were infected with this bacterium and can pass it along to others if they don't use good bathroom hygiene practices.

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) has accurate information about E. coli and other pathogenic bacteria on its website at:

http://www.cdc.gov/nczved/dfbmd/disease_listing/stec_gi.html

The Food and Drug Administration (FDA) also has good information about microorganisms that cause food poisoning in it's online "Bad Bug Book":

http://www.foodsafety.gov/~mow/intro.html

I would say that if the Dept. of Health hasn't shut them down, your group will probably be quite safe from E. coli infection. If there were gross violations of food safety regs in the food service area, they'd be shut down. Right now, they're probably being extremely careful and have sanitized everything within sight of food prep areas, so you may be safer than ever. You will almost certainly get parents that don't let their kids go. You may want to request information from the epidemiologist or Health Dept. personnel that you can pass along to the parents.

Register them. If it's an overnight campout, I'd also recommend that you have them take Youth Protection Training online or at least tell them about the relevant sections about two-deep leadership, scouts not being in tent of adult other than parent, etc.

Post your question on the advice section of http://www.paddling.net/message/.

Good book - "A Fork in the Trail"

Hello all from Wisconsin. I'm the committee chair for a pack of around 50 Cub Scouts, and discovered this forum last month. Prior to signing up as a Tiger leader and kool-aid lady three years ago, I knew nothing about scouts. This forum has a lot of great information.

I'm going to be coordinating the purchase of additional camping equipment for our pack, and have a question about dining canopies & rain flies. What types of shelters & dining/cooking canopies do all of you use for your packs and troops?

Thanks!