janssenil

Hmmmm, I don't know...after reading these posts it appears to me that we already have A LOT of odd ducks in scouting. :-)

Hmmmm, I don't know...after reading these posts it appears to me that we already have A LOT of odd ducks in scouting. :-)

Sorry, I don't mean to keep the argument going, but you can't compare the danger of a shotgun, bow and arrow or rifle to a cell phone. Shotguns, rifles and bows & arrows can cause physical harm so, although, I'll go for the idea of a confiscating cellphones if they are causing disruptions, in my opinion you can't compare those weapons to cell phones unless you are comparing the need for teaching boys to handle both of them properly and with respect.

Good points! Actually I'm glad to hear the comment about having to do these things while on a campout. That sort of explains how those things relate to camping. On the other hand, it makes the badge even harder to earn! It also makes me feel better about the SM not allowing the rappeling (athough I'm not sure that's his reasoning).

To answer the question about the SM and MB counselor, in this case the SM has kind of stepped in because our MB counselor isn't as available as he used to be and everyone was getting frustrated not knowing who to report to. It is not an ideal situation, for sure!

I did learn that the requirements changed this year that reduced the number of feet for the vertical distance for hiking a mountain to 1000 feet versus 2000 feet which means my son will be able to count that as one of the four.

Thanks for all your very sage advice!

Hi - hey I see several camping badge counselors out there so can I take this opportunity to ask about a couple of other camping badge requirement?

My son has completed all the requirments for this badge except part of 9b. For that requirment he must do 2 of the following:

Hike up a mountain, gaining at least 2,000 vertical feet.

Backpack for at least four miles.

Take a bike trip of at least 15 miles or at least four hours.

Plan and carry out a float trip of at least four hours.

Rappel down a rappel route of 30 feet or more.

He has taken the bike trip and he has rappeled down a 65 foot 'silo' at an indoor climbing facility.

The issue is that his SM says the 65 foot silo doesn't count because the requirement refers to actually rappelling down a mountain. I've never been to the indoor facility but have read about it on their website so I know it exists and I know my son has done it. What I don't know is much about climbing and whether or not the SM is justified in not counting it as rapelling?

Can I have an opinion? My son has completed his Climbing Merit badge at another indoor climbing facility.

One other question - it looks like the requirment for hiking up the mountain changed from 2000 veritical feet to 1000 veritical feet. What if a boys climbs the 1000 vertical feet before the requirement changed?

Thank you all for the good input! I knew I could count on this forum for advice. Keep those commments coming.

JerseyJohn, you asked what our fundraiser is...we just got Council approval tonight so I guess it's official. We're planning a Bike tour and are inviting bike clubs throughout the State to join us. We have multiple routes so Scouts can work on their Cycling Merit badge and campout, too. We'll be selling food and T-shirts. We're going to have everyone try to "spot" several points of interest and answer trivia questions along the route. This is a somewhat historic county so they may even learn something along the way. Those that answer the most questions correctly will be entered in a drawing for a prize.

It's a long planning process and a fair amount of work to put together, but I think it will be fun, too.

We sure hope it's successful.

Has anybody thought to thank those parents? Maybe it would generate a conversation and put to rest some of the concerns or speculation. Any way you look at it, your Pack is reaping benefits.

IMHO, it's hard to believe that parents would go into that kind of debt, not to mention the work of reselling or gifting, just to get their child's name mentioned. You just might be overlooking a great resource.

Hi,

I posted this/similar topic under the Patrol Method forum, but realized it probably belongs here.

We're planning a big fundraiser from which we hope to earn a pretty good profit. We, also, plan to start up Scout accounts and want to come up with a fair and wise way to divvy up some of the profits to each scout. Do any of you have ideas or experience - what works and what doesn't? Any lessons learned? Do you have restrictions on how they can spend money in their accounts? Any forumula that your troop uses to determine how much each scout should receive?

We sure would appreciate your thoughts!

Hi,

Our troop is planning a fundraiser from which we hope to earn quite a bit of profit. We also plan to start Scout Accounts and would like to hear from other troops on how they determine how to divvy up some of those profits amongst the scouts. Any rules? Any lessons learned? Can they spend the profits on anything or restricted to summer camp payments and camping fees? Did each scout receive a percentage based on the number of hours worked? Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated!

Thanks!

Any suggestions for keeping track of individual accounts for each boy? Is there a downloadable spreadsheet already setup for this kind of thing. I don't want to reinvent the wheel if I don't have to (especially since I'm a beginner at Excel).

I'd like to keep good records as we initiate this kind of thing, but don't know where to begin.

600 miles is a long way to travel for a visit.

Three Scouts have gotten lost in the past 2 years, all of which had parents and/or leaders very nearby, but no cellphone of their own. One still has not been found. One was rescued by a 4 wheeler with a cellphone.

evmori,

Will you please give me a break or at least read my posts all the way through before needling me? What you are reading between the lines is incorrect and it's beginning to feel petty.

It was tucked in his fanny pack which was filled with emergency preparedness items which would also have gotten lost as could 2 dozen other items brought to camp like cameras and clothing.

But m biggest point is, is that it didn't get lost and, as I said in my first post, we, as parents, were aware of the risk and considered it our hard luck if it were lost, stolen or drowned in the lake. It was a risk we were willing to take. He's a kid and his sense of responsibility is relative to his age. I'm not fooling myself about the possibility of it or HIM getting lost or separated. (Three Scouts have gotten lost in the past 2 years, all of which had parents and leaders very nearby, but no cellphone of their own. One still has not been found.) One was rescued by a 4 wheeler with a cellphone.

If you don't believe cell phones belong at camp, rather than ban them arbitrarily, why not set guidelines so as to appease everyone? Warn parents and kids that they are responsible for any loss and they cannot be used at anytime except for emergencies and between 7:00 p.m. and 7:30 p.m. three days during the week (or something similar). It'll take care of the Leader's having to trek to a pay phone with a kid. Heck, most camps have parents visit midweek; what's the problem with a phone call instead especially when they are over 600 miles away?

Or, bet of all, how about using the Patrol method to have the boys set their own guidelines!!!

(This message has been edited by janssenil)

It seems like some of the people on this forum don't really read the posts before responding.

No, I didn't say I wouldn't send my son to camp without a cell phone nor did I say I wouldn't send him if he couldn't bring his cell phone. I did say I would be very upset if there were hardfast rules that he couldn't bring his cell phone. As it turned out, his unit was suppose to leave all electronic devices on the bus, but they were targeting gameboys, etc., versus cell phones. My son's cell phone is a very weird one with a display that is a half inch wide and doesn't have any games on it so we didn't have that issue, but he didn't even think about the fact that it was in his fanny pack so you could say he broke the rule (accidently).

Yes, I would have loved to hear from him, it's true, but as I said, he was having so much fun and had limited signal that I didn't hear a peep after the first call from Dad saying they had arrived safely until they were on the road for home. Does it sound like he has a problem with independence? Some kids do, you say? Does that mean all kids should then suffer the cellphone ban?

As for the comment about phone calls home inhibiting growth, all if have to say is that all throughout your life you have to check in with people. It's not a bad thing for boys/anyone to learn to check in! As a working adult, you have to call your boss if your ill and as a parent you have to check in with your family. As a leader, you are constantly checking in with those around you. Communication is the key to success! The happiest marriages are those where communication flows easily. Teaching kids to check in isn't a bad thing. And, I NEVER said anything about calling home everyday or even every other day, in fact, I didn't make any requirements about calling home. It wasn't the point. I did say I was curious and anxious to hear what he was doing, tho.

It's good to encourage parents (Dads) to go to camp with the boys, but calling home to share things with family is wrong? What does that teach?

scoutldr

The world has changed in many ways, not the least of which is the number of volunteers who are available and trained.

And, as far as calling home, maybe your Mom didn't care if you called so it wasn't an issue for you.

My 12 y/o son is at camp several States away in the mountains as we 'speak.' Just before he left I started getting a little nervous even though his Dad has accompanied him so I packed a little fanny pack for him and his bestfriend. I included waterproof matches, a whistle with a compass, an emergency blanket, firesticks along with several other things AND his CELL PHONE. I am much relieved because of it. Things happen no matter how careful the adult leaders try to be! We try to teach our kids to be independent and responsible, but along with doing that, there are risks. Of course, I also hoped for a phone call or two because I want to hear all the fun things he's doing, but I haven't heard a peep. He promised to carry the fanny pack with him and leave the phone on because I hope that if he were to get separated and lost the signal from the phone might help to locate him.

I would have been VERY UPSET if I had been told ahead of the trip that he would not be allowed to bring it. My gripe with some of the comments here is that Scouters teach our kids to use knives, shoot rifles & shotguns, bows and arrows, teach them survival and MANY other things. What is so hard about also teaching them how to handle a cell phone respectfully and responsibly? It doesn't take near the effort it does to teach them how to shoot a rifle.

Why do some people think we need a hardfast ban on electronic devices and a new rule everytime something goes awry? If we can regulate how to use deadly equipment safely it seems that common sense dictates that we can also regulate the use of a cell phone instead of ruining it for everyone. My child doesn't get homesick - never has and probably never will so, should he be banned from bringing it because another child can't handle it? I differentiate between my children depending on which one can handle what; teachers constantly differentiate between children and it usually works in everyone's favor.

Loosing the cell phone and blaming the leader?! I don't think so - if my son lost his cell phone it's our hard luck and a simple, polite comment from the Leaders to that affect should suffice to desuade reluctant parents. If it doesn't, they've been warned. I knew the risk when I packed it.

Last year was his first year at a nearby camp. He was there without his father and we were both anxious to hear from him. Before he left we asked him to call mid-week. Wednesday came and went without a call. We knew there was a pay phone and so we sent him without cellphone, but equiped with a phone card. On Thursday his Leader let him use his cell phone because everytime he tried to use the pay phone he was told his Leader had to be with him, but because all the Leaders were busy dealing with homesick kids or other events and problems it wasn't working out. They couldn't find a good time to walk half a mile to the top of the hill to give him permission to call.

For every negative cell phone story we can list in this thread, we can also come up with a positive one.

This is a changing world. Scouting has to change with it. We can either incorporate new technology in a positive, ethical way or sit back and watch Scouting become a dinosaur.

Ok, so admittedly, I'm kinda homesick for him and wish he'd remember that cell phone in his fanny pack!

Hey, thanks! I like both of those ideas. If my computer will stop rebooting itself long enough, I'd like to try the photo presentation.

I'm looking for some good, unique ideas for a Flag Ceremony for our Blue & Gold. I have 5 Webelos who will be doing it for the last time as Cub Scouts so I'm hoping to find something that they'll find interesting.

Thanks for any ideas!

Also, State Farm Insurance Agents can get materials to put on bike rodeos, but I'm told they need to plan far in advance for it and tend to like to involve big communities.

Hi,

I, too, have searched high & low for some plans I printed out a couple of months ago and I can't find them anywhere now! I gave them to a Den Leader who agreed to build a bridge so can't look for a website address on them, but, THE GOOD NEWS is that I found an even better bridge at this website: http://www.users.qwest.net/~rbhollis/scout_bridge.html#Detailed%20Pictures

I wish I'd give these plans to our bridge builder! I love the idea of the Scout Oath!

Hi,

I just wanted to add a couple of comments since I just arranged two visits to two different Troops for my Webelos.

A. Ask the Troop to mention the upcoming visit to the Patrol leaders or all the Boy Scouts so they know younger boys are coming. The second Troop we visited didn't know why the Webelos were there and ignored them for quite awhile.

B. Ask the Boy Scouts not to refer to them as little boys or anything similar. One of the Troops we visited was a great, very active Troop, but our Webelos were turned off because they treated them like little kids. My Webelos were much younger than most of them, but they hated being treated like babies.

C. Tell the Boys Scouts not to assume they can't tie knots or know nothing about camping. The boys in that troop wanted to impress them with camping skills and never asked what our experiences were.

I really wish I'd made those arrangements ahead of time because it was a troop that I hoped the boys would be most interested in. It ended up they loved the other Troop because those boys spent time teaching them the structure of Boy Scouting and the Scout Oath and then played hide & seek. It is a VERY small troop, but they acted like they like my boys and that's all it took for them to feel like they belonged.

Thought I'd let you know how things turned out... Unfortunately, Cubmaster Dad did quit. We really tried to convince him he would still spend a lot of time with his son, but I think he felt like we stabbed him in the back. I've apologized to him several times because it is really sad. He did do many things to help our Pack out. On the other hand, I do remind myself that the problem is really his and his Ex and I have no power over that. We couldn't start a new Den because the attendance at both Dens has dropped to 5 or 6 boys. (We probably should have put the cousin and Joe in one by themselves hehehe).

The good news is that one of our Den Leaders stepped up to be Pack Leader and his wife will take his place as Den Leader. So, I guess, all has worked out, but it was an experience I will long remember.

I, too, am divorced and remember how painful the experience is, but I have never seen anything as pitiful as this before. They've been divorced at least 2 years and still jab each other whenever possible.

Thank you all for responding!! It's WONDERFUL to have your support.

Hi NJ,

You may think I'm overreacting and, I assume, you really meant no malice, but when you (or anyone) refer to things like ADHD (Attention Deficicit Hyperactivity Disorder) as 'one of the alphabet soup conditions' it breaks my heart because it sounds so callous. You may not take the condition seriously or, like many people, think it's an excuse for bad behavior, but I understand it all too well. Most of the time, I'm very proud of the strides he makes which do not always seem like much to others.

Thanks for considering my comment,

A Mother of a child with ADHD and Webelo II Leader

P. S. to SagerScout: (off subject) In my humble opinion, if 'alphabet soup' labeling gets a child the help they need, then let them label as much as they have to. I understand, tho, that sometimes a label gets them the wrong kind of attention.(This message has been edited by janssenil)(This message has been edited by janssenil)

Thanks!! I, too, particularly enjoyed Twocubdad's advice and REALLY wish I could practice it!!

So now that we have our priorities straight and begin to soley focus on having having enough leaders to deliver a quality program to the boys in our community, we're still left in a very precarious position - We're going to loose our Cub Master. That in itself could fold the entire Pack, but in addition to that my husband and I are parents of a Webelo II so come December, husband passes the torch then come February I move on, also. The new Committee Chair, due to many other committments (he's an Athletic Director at Jr. High), cannot get involved until late January so New Cub Master was willing to hold down the fort until then. I'm pretty much broken hearted since we've worked extremely hard to leave them in good shape and with sufficient funds.

The only way we're going to keep new Cub Master is if Mom & Stepdad realize they are really screwing with their child's mind and relationship with his Dad ALONG WITH THE ENTIRE PACK. They don't care about Scouts; it's all like a big chess game to them. I can't believe there are such shallow people in this world.

Anyway.... a few comments. Yes, twenty Wolf's make it seem like it might be a big Pack, but that's a huge jump this year. Last year they were 10 Tigers. We combined 2 schools last year, but it didn't really start showing a difference until this year. The rest of our Dens have 5 or 6 kids at the most. We thought we were lucky to get two Wolf Leaders, but know three would have been ideal. We're also not sure how many are going to really stick with it. I think we've lost two already. We did let the leaders decide how they wanted to set it up and they both said 10 would be fine if parents were involved (way too involved in this case).

One thing that you said is part of what I keep pondering and having a hard time with: The Mother is the one who decided she wanted her son with his cousin in a different Den (who knows what the child wanted). It's the Pack (Den Leaders) who decided who should be in each of their Dens. So, altho, there probably is room for Joe to switch due to a dropout, what will we do if other parents want to switch their kids around? Should we keep trying to please everyone or shouldn't we set a policy now before things get crazy?

I don't know - it all really makes me want ot run and hide. :-)

We've got a very touchy situation brewing in our Pack and really are having a hard time finding the right resolution.

We're a small Pack that has had a hard time filling all positions. Right now my husband who is the Committe Chair is filling in as Cub Master because our Cub Master had to quit as of June (he moved). Since that time the Den Leader for our Tiger Cubs stepped up to become Cub Master officially beginning in December. He's divorced and his wife has full custody of his son. After a little coaxing on our part, he decided to step up to the position because he found it to be a great way to spend time with his son.

I will try not to fill this post with tons of detail so, long story short, his ex-wife has decided she and her new husband want to become more active in the meetings. His son, a Wolf this year, is one of 20 Wolfs. When we discovered we had that many Wolfs this year the two new Den Leaders divided them up by cutting the list in half alphabetically (A thru J in Den 1 and K thru Z in Den 2). The Cub Master's son (I'll call him Joe) landed in Den 2 and his cousin landed in Den 1. Mother has decided she wants to go to Den 1 meetings so Joe can be with his cousin and to avoid being around 'new Cub Master' along with a few other petty reasons like location. In the meantime, to complicate matters even more 'new Cub Master' has discovered that Joe's Den 2 Den Leader needs assistance so he volunteers to be his "helper." Unbeknownst to everyone involved, Mom & Stepdad go to the Den 1 meeting even though new Cub Master expected Joe to be at Den 2 meeting. Both meetings are on the same night in two different locations. After he figures out what's happening he goes to the location of Den 1 and trys to straigten things out (quietly). Mom won't even let him talk to his son so he calls us very upset.

It's now a no-win situation. Mom tells us she will take Joe out of Cub Scouts if we refuse to put Joe in Den 1 which she can do because she has full custody. If that occurs 'New Cub Master' will quit also. If we allow Joe to go to Den 1, 'new Cub Master' will quit as his whole reason for being involved is because of his son.

Mom & Step-Dad tell us they started taking Joe to Scouts last year as a Tiger Cub until new Cub Master started to get involved. We have, however, never seen them at any Pack Meetings. All we know is that new Cub Master has been extemely involved and was a very successfull Tiger Leader and seems to be a very ambitious Cub Master. We think his ambition is what resulted in 20 Wolves this year. Of course, both sets of parents have their problems (that we really didn't want to know about). Tonight we spent the evening on the phone with Stepdad and Den 1 Den Leader and could not come up with a solution.

Help - how should this be handled?

Good question; I wondered how that should work - sounds like you're going to be a good, conscientious Webelo leader (even if you didn't capitalize :-)). It would be nice to have parents as interested.