Huzzar
-
Content Count
136 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
1
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Articles
Store
Posts posted by Huzzar
-
-
Nobody is asking any Scout to make a profession. If a Scout tells a BoR to take a hike on any legitimate question it's okay for the Board to deny rank advancement. General questions about Reverence are legitimate.Jblake47, The scout has no obligation to allow you or anyone else to examine them on their religious beliefs and if you 'think' they have misled you, then it is possible that part, if not all, of the responsibility for that is yours. There is no place that I can find in BSA documents that state that there is a responsibility for any adult leader to judge or examine the religious beliefs of a boy. Their beliefs are theirs, personally, and not the business of anyone else. If they've signed their name, the best thing for the rest of us to do is to butt out of their personal business. -
Trail Life doesn't appear to be growing where I live. There are no units within 50 miles as best I can tell.
I think they'll end up about the size of American Heritage Girls, which has the same outlook as they do.
Just another choice for a kid's time, no great threat to BSA.
-
Now you're making stuff up, Packsaddle. It's perfectly acceptable to ask a Scout what Reverent means to him in a BoR. Provided he doesn't say "nothing, I'm an atheist" it's just another conversation point.Jblake47, The scout has no obligation to allow you or anyone else to examine them on their religious beliefs and if you 'think' they have misled you, then it is possible that part, if not all, of the responsibility for that is yours. There is no place that I can find in BSA documents that state that there is a responsibility for any adult leader to judge or examine the religious beliefs of a boy. Their beliefs are theirs, personally, and not the business of anyone else. If they've signed their name, the best thing for the rest of us to do is to butt out of their personal business.If he does say "I'm an atheist" and persists in sticking with that position despite the BoR members trying to get him to understand the BSA's position then the BoR has a pretty tough decision themselves. Deny rank and explain why or ignore the religious part themselves.
No...I'm not going to engage you in nit picky arguments about what/who a supreme being is.The BSA is quite upfront in saying atheism is a no. If a unit denies advancement based on that it's fine.
-
and lawyers wonder why they get a bad rap. Rolling my eyes..I have always been curious about the notion that not believing in God is automatically a violation of the Oath and Law. I'm an attorney, iin our legal system one of the general rules regarding duty is that you cannot breach a duty if you don't have the duty to begin with. So a scout who doesn't believe in God can promise to do his duty to God believing that if God doesn't exist then no Duty to God can be breached. And Reverent is about practicing your own beliefs while being respectful of others. So how is being an Atheist in and of itself de facto a breach of the Oath and Law? -
I think your advice would be applicable if the Scouters were neutral and able to act objectively. In this case, the CC is the bully's mom and rides roughshod over everyone else.ScouterCA, I agree, it's a cluster fart in a mummy bag. And your son has tried. He tried talking to the adults (who apparently are all missing out on what scouting is about). He talked to the boy and that failed. He found another troop that really likes him. At the same time, while your son has been driven to tears by this boy, he is "still firmly planted in this troop." Why? This might be a good place to start a discussion with your son. Obviously there's something he likes about his first troop. And more obviously there's a bully in it that's ruining it for him and probably others as well. He could just walk away but he hasn't.What I mean by confronting the problem is that your son doesn't know how to deal with a bully. That's the crux of the problem. Most kids don't know how to handle this because they don't have to figure it out. The bully feeds off of your son's misery and probably enjoyed having your son talk to him and tell him how hurtful words are. When your son cries the bully is having a field day. Shy of violence (and that's an important thing to consider), this is an opportunity for your son to gain confidence in dealing with dirt bags. This kid isn't bullying your son because your son is advancing faster than he is, he's bullying your son because he gets a response. Unless your son is home schooled until he graduates, switching troops isn't going to solve the problem if they end up in the same school. This boy is learning from his mom. My guess is she treats him like garbage at home and he's trying to gain confidence the only way he knows how.
Getting some scouter to back up your son would be a great way for him to gain confidence, so I'd start talking to those higher up. Maybe there are programs at a local school for learning how to respond to bullies, and when to pull in an adult. I wouldn't teach this, find a teacher in a school that deals with butt heads daily. Honestly, it sounds like it would be better for your son to leave this troop (how wrong can it be?), but if he can leave it on his own terms, and not that of the bully, then he wins. Another option is leave now, but still learn to deal with bullies so this won't happen in the future.
There are only two options available and one of them isn't realistic. First, move on and don't look back (my choice). Second, work to have the IH via COR remove CC and restore some sanity.
Two might be the ideal option, but my experience is that it isn't worth the drama. Scouting is meant to be fun. When it isn't, the Scout should go to a unit where he will be happy and having fun.
-
Just move to the other troop and don't look back. It doesn't matter how obvious the facts seem to you, you will get "there're two sides to every story" if you complain.
With any luck some of your son's friends will move too.
-
1
-
-
"The entire requirement is idiotic and ridiculously badly defined."I have over-heard the boys discuss this issue. I heard a agnostic/atheist say he would never admit it because he wants his Eagle. When I talk to the boys I always urge them to work their faith in everyday life and keeping searching. Leads to some good discussion which is the point.I agree with this one. Quite frankly, with the change for sexuality for Scouts I can't see the point in excluding a tiny number of boys because they won't wordsmith their lack of faith to meet BSA's wishy-washy requirement.
-
Perhaps your leader met the dude at the Unitarian booth at Jambo that was telling the yoots he was an atheist but liked being a Scouter so he joined the Unitarians because they don't care if you believe in anything.With that said.......I understand giving a lad latitude for self expression or exploration.
But at what point does the troop Atheist or Pagan become an issue and you need to have him removed or stop advancing them on the grounds of scout spirit.??????
Most scouters have experience with a boy that says he doesn't believe in god or the self proclaimed Pagan.
My experience has been most of the time it is for shock effect and to get a reaction.
-
It looks like Ryan Andresen turned 18 in 2011 or 2012 so it would be the old rules.
-
Wouldn't it depend on the age of the Scout as of 1/1/14? Anyone that aged out before that will be under the old rules.
-
It's a bit early to make any definitive statement about membership numbers and finances. My Council is still chasing down units that are tardy with paperwork.No mass (or minor) influx of gay kids either. So we're where we always thought we were, pandering to the AT&T dude cos he was getting stick at shareholder meetings.Next up, will Gates be Stephenson's guy to push the change for adults?
IMO, the change for Scouts is minor compared with a change for adults. If Gates has been brought on board to make it happen then he should do so as quickly as possible so we can see what happens. He's never going to build a consensus on this so just get on with it.
-
I thought that UK Scout numbers improved after they appointed as Chief Scout a guy that kills rattle snakes with his bare hands and then eats 'em raw."However, he said if his sons had a gay leader, "we would have to take a look at making other arrangements."" Gay leaders (role models) is and has been the main issue from the beginning. BarrySkip--do you have dates of when numbers improved and when Grylls became the face of Scouting in the UK?
-
No mass (or minor) influx of gay kids either. So we're where we always thought we were, pandering to the AT&T dude cos he was getting stick at shareholder meetings.
Next up, will Gates be Stephenson's guy to push the change for adults?
-
ZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzI deal with this every year, but from a different point of view, as a non-Christian. I think the reason it's hard to understand the reactions is that the reactions you get to your “Merry Christmas†are not only different, but for different reasons, and often with varied purpose.To get this out of the way, I appreciate anyone wishing me well, and am always glad they are embracing their faith. Where things change for me is where: a well-wishing is either an “feeler†for a potential faith conversion pitch; a placing of “the chip†on the shoulder, so that an attack can be made if the other person responds with a well wishing that is appropriate to their faith; and lastly when it is an act of political outrage. You can see by example some of the possible different reasons.
We live in a compound culture, a true mixing pot, as is evidenced at any large scout gathering. We should respect our differences, find strength in them, and act to protect “everyone’s right to the freedom of religionâ€Â.
I don’t mean to give offense by this, but all too often a zealous Christian will react in way that creates the stigma that causes the “PC†policies to be adopted. To better demonstrate my point, I’ll use my wife as an example. My wife works with the public, and just yesterday she had finished a transaction with a customer, who them wished her “Merry Christmasâ€Â, it had the intended effect, she genuinely felt good, and smiled, saying “and a Joyous Yule to youâ€Â. Her client’s reaction was: “Aren’t you allowed to say Merry Christmas?â€Â. My wife didn’t choose to respond with “Merry Christmas†because she could not, she chose not to, as we do not celebrate Christmas, but did return a heartfelt well wishing, that was not well received. The story does not end there, as my wife, assuming she was dealing with a reasonable human being, went on to explain that her employer did allow all employees to say “Merry Christmasâ€Â, but “Joyous Yule†was appropriate to her own beliefs. I’ll not reproduce the whole dialogue here, although as you can guess, I was told about every detail when my wife came home thoroughly upset, and clearly no longer enjoying her winter holiday. Will I will share is that the client did inform my wife that “Jesus is the reason for the seasonâ€Â, and she was sick to death of people trying to remove Jesus from his own holiday; followed by probing questions regarding my wife’s own beliefs, and repeated efforts to get her to “x†religious leader, so that she can hear the truth, and be put on the correct path. The icing on the cake was when a supervisor asked my wife what had happened, and after hearing her explanation responded with “couldn’t you just say Merry Christmasâ€Â. Now my wife fears religious persecution in the work place.
Does seeing this from another point of view help you understand? I deeply revere the teaching of Jesus Christ, and from my understanding of his ministry, can’t imagine this woman’s actions were in keeping with his teachings. The sad thing is, from my experience, about 1 in 3 Christians react in a similar way. The end effect, polies, and laws, are adopted to protect everyone, and their religious practices.
I wish everyone could act like the mature, educated, adults we are, and everyone would accept all “well wishingâ€Â, with a big smile, and a warm heart … maybe one day we all can sit at the table of equality, and there will truly be peace on earth.
-
Sorry Never... you're making tripe up.Ya knowâ€â€If a good many christians in this nation would stop and think they'd realize that most people don't have a problem with “Merry Christmas†per say. The problem arises when I'm expected to wish Christians a Merry Christmas, even though I don't celebrate Christmas and worse, that I cannot wish Christans a “Blessed Solstice†of “Joyous Yule,†which happen to be MY holidays because it offends them!No one is trying to “tear down your traditions.†Rather, they have simply recognized that others have traditions that are different than your own. I do not go Christmas Shopping; Christians do not go Festivus Shopping, however, BOTH groups do engage in HOLIDAY SHOPPING, thus advertising “Holiday Sales†is entirely approperate since the retailer wishes to have everyone inside shopping.
“But, what about my customs?†You ask. Well, What about my customs? What if I insisted that you work Christmas every year, but you got Yule off instead? You'd likely be just as unhappy as I am currently.
People don't want mangers in public squares, because a good many other religions, who also have holidays in December, are not permited to erect their own religious displays. Policies should be simple; either every religon with a holiday gets to put up a display, or the display can have no religious elements. That's what happens when you are being treated EQUALLY, not persecuted, just treated EQUAL to other citizens.
Because we live in a nation rich in cultural and ethnic diversity it is important to remember that not everyone is celebrating Christmas this holiday season. Currently, I am aware of 21 other holidays that occur this month:
-
Bodhi Day
-
Boxing Day
-
Chalica
-
Donghi Festival
-
Dzon'ku 'Nu
-
Feast of Winter Veil
-
Festivus
-
Hanukkah
-
Human Light
-
Inti Raymi
-
Junkanoo
-
Kwanzaa
-
New Years Eve
-
Newtonmas
-
Pancha Ganapati
-
Saturnalia
-
Sewy Yelda
-
Winter Solstice
-
Watch Night
-
Yule
-
Zarathosht Diso
I’m sure there are more December holidays that I’m not aware of. Regardless of how many or how few there are, it is important to wish those around us “Happy Holidays†because you may not know just which holiday they will be celebrating this December.
-
Bodhi Day
-
It's interesting to see what's going on in the UK but I don't think it is relevant to the BSA. The percentage of the UK population that attends religious services on a regular basis is quite small. Given that, it's understandable why the Girl Guides are making the oath as broad as possible. It's probably accurate to say that Scouting and Guiding in the UK are outdoor youth programs with very little religious component.
The National leaders for Guides have decided one oath only so the groups that don't like it have to change or leave. Hmmm...sounds familiar...
-
What is a nice price?
-
It is not an analogy.
The distain with which most boys hold schoolwork Scouting is literal, not figurative.
The reaction from my son when he attended his first Merit Badge roundtable "this is just Saturday morning school. Can we go fishing instead." It also prompted him to say he wanted to leave Scouts, but stayed in when I said he could skip merit badges and just have fun on the trips.
Yes, he eventaully decided to set Eagle as a goal but still disliked more merit badges than he liked.
-
The author was talking explicitly about welfare in the USA and its deleterious affect on black family structure in the USA. Pointing the finger in this case is extremely helpful. What to do about it is the complicated part.Twocubdad I think you misunderstand me, in fact I think we are saying similar things just from different perspectives. Direct comparisons between North America and Scandanavia, indeed between any two countires/cultures are not very helpful simply because it results in massive over simplification of what are often very difficult and complex issues. Which is exactly why the writer pointing the finger at welfare is not helpful. The reasons behind the crime and gang culture will no doubt be complex and diffiicult to resolve. My comment about Scandanavia was simply to point out the absurdity of making simplistic arguments. And no, I don't have the answers to these problems either. I do believe though that anyone that starts waving simple answers around to complex issues is either stupid or has a personal axe to grind and is using the issue as a tool for doing so. -
>>Yes, there are boys who would jump at the chance of twice as many meetings a week and twice as many camping nights a year!Note: that minimum is 5 paid youth. So, pay attention to multiple registrations. This is likely not the case with the troop your trying to help, but if there is a boy who is multiple registered with a venturing crew, you should make sure his primary membership is with the troop. (That is, of course assuming that the crew's membership has ample numbers of paid youth.) -
Nothing hypocritical about it, Merlyn. They behaved like assholes, I can call 'em on it. And you have to be reading impaired to think that the cards they displayed were meant to do anything but mock the religious displays.Well AZMike, your examples of Christian business owners being told by the state they have to provide services for LGBT weddings is simply a matter of businesses being considered public accommodations. They can't refuse their services any more than someone whose religion objects to mixed-race marriages, or mixed-religion marriages could refuse to do business with couples of mixed races or mixed religions. You can argue against public accommodation laws, but I'm in favor of them.As for Catholic adoption agencies, if they take state money they have to follow the rules for accepting that money. They could still discriminate if they want to forgo state money and be an entirely private adoption organization, but they decided not to do that. I see nothing wrong with the state having requirements for their adoption funding.
For atheists suing the IRS, all nonprofits, including churches, are prevented from endorsing political candidates. Some churches have been violating this law, so the atheists sued the IRS to make them apply the law. Of course, if you want to be completely private and not get nonprofit status, churches can endorse political candidates.
About the HHS fight, it's not atheists doing that.
Military chaplains aren't supposed to insult soldiers in military service, and writing the old "no atheists in foxholes" does just that. Such insults are an actual violation of military regs.
The Santa Monica situation was where Christians had preferential treatment for 60 years; when the city had to change it to a fair system, atheists got most of the spots. So now you're complaining about a level playing field.
And sorry, you can't take public school students to a church to see them put on "A Charlie Brown Christmas" as a play. Besides the religious problems, the church was violating the law because the owners of the rights weren't allowing it to be performed anywhere as a live play:
And the atheist monument is in a public forum. Again, atheists are being treated the same as anyone else. Got a problem with that?
For student clubs, that's only if the groups want official recognition (which often includes some funding). If they want to be an entirely private group without official recognition, they can do that. If you think it's a violation, file a lawsuit.
Am. Atheists sued over the 9/11 cross because not just Christians were killed in the attack.
"Government officials have misused their powers to deny business licenses to those whose religious beliefs differ from those held by the government officials on LGBT marriage:"
Well, now you can't read. The mayor of Boston said that, and he was reprimanded by the ACLU, and NO business license was ever denied:
Also, where's the atheist in this story? The mayor of Boston isn't an atheist.
As for the Camp Pendleton cross, the US isn't a Christians-only country, there's no reason to have government memorials just for Christians.
And same for firesighters.
As for city seals, no, you do not have a "right" to have your religious symbols on city seals.
"I could go on and on, and on, but the fact is that atheists, and those pursuing secular goals, have attempted to impinge on the religious rights of Americans"
Sorry, what you call "rights" are not what I call rights. Some of what you are complaining about above are actually Christians losing special privileges and atheists finally being treated equally, such as the Santa Monica story or the atheist monument (which was put up in response to a ten commandments monument on the same public property).
-
I can give you the back story to that one, KDD. Chester County isn't discriminating against atheists, they're discriminating against assholes. A few years back the local atheists lobbied to have their tree put next to the Christmas tree and menorah. That request was granted as an equal access type deal. Unfortunately, the atheists chose to decorate their tree with cards that explicitly mocked the beliefs of the people that put up the two religious symbols. The County, rightly IMO, concluded that the atheist group had lied in their petition and did not want to express any type of good wishes for the season/winter/life-in-general, but instead wanted a platform to denigrate religious people. For subsequent years they've been told to take a hike and, quite frankly, I hope they're kept out until such time that they can grow up and act with some grace.Well AZMike, your examples of Christian business owners being told by the state they have to provide services for LGBT weddings is simply a matter of businesses being considered public accommodations. They can't refuse their services any more than someone whose religion objects to mixed-race marriages, or mixed-religion marriages could refuse to do business with couples of mixed races or mixed religions. You can argue against public accommodation laws, but I'm in favor of them.As for Catholic adoption agencies, if they take state money they have to follow the rules for accepting that money. They could still discriminate if they want to forgo state money and be an entirely private adoption organization, but they decided not to do that. I see nothing wrong with the state having requirements for their adoption funding.
For atheists suing the IRS, all nonprofits, including churches, are prevented from endorsing political candidates. Some churches have been violating this law, so the atheists sued the IRS to make them apply the law. Of course, if you want to be completely private and not get nonprofit status, churches can endorse political candidates.
About the HHS fight, it's not atheists doing that.
Military chaplains aren't supposed to insult soldiers in military service, and writing the old "no atheists in foxholes" does just that. Such insults are an actual violation of military regs.
The Santa Monica situation was where Christians had preferential treatment for 60 years; when the city had to change it to a fair system, atheists got most of the spots. So now you're complaining about a level playing field.
And sorry, you can't take public school students to a church to see them put on "A Charlie Brown Christmas" as a play. Besides the religious problems, the church was violating the law because the owners of the rights weren't allowing it to be performed anywhere as a live play:
And the atheist monument is in a public forum. Again, atheists are being treated the same as anyone else. Got a problem with that?
For student clubs, that's only if the groups want official recognition (which often includes some funding). If they want to be an entirely private group without official recognition, they can do that. If you think it's a violation, file a lawsuit.
Am. Atheists sued over the 9/11 cross because not just Christians were killed in the attack.
"Government officials have misused their powers to deny business licenses to those whose religious beliefs differ from those held by the government officials on LGBT marriage:"
Well, now you can't read. The mayor of Boston said that, and he was reprimanded by the ACLU, and NO business license was ever denied:
Also, where's the atheist in this story? The mayor of Boston isn't an atheist.
As for the Camp Pendleton cross, the US isn't a Christians-only country, there's no reason to have government memorials just for Christians.
And same for firesighters.
As for city seals, no, you do not have a "right" to have your religious symbols on city seals.
"I could go on and on, and on, but the fact is that atheists, and those pursuing secular goals, have attempted to impinge on the religious rights of Americans"
Sorry, what you call "rights" are not what I call rights. Some of what you are complaining about above are actually Christians losing special privileges and atheists finally being treated equally, such as the Santa Monica story or the atheist monument (which was put up in response to a ten commandments monument on the same public property).
-
I just shopped for the same policy I had 4 years ago when I was self-employed. I'm thinking of hanging the shingle again and health care is the biggest concern.It's good to hear that you have had such a excellent experience health insurance. For me, my rates jump 10% per year which means I need to change to higher deductible plan with fewer benefits. When I see a doctor, I'm lucky to get 5 minutes of his time so he can make his 12 patients/hour quota. I don't think so highly of that system.The way the system was heading, only the rich would be able to afford healthcare. With ACA, now every American regardless of income has access to healthcare.
What was a $350/month policy is now being sold at $950/month. Of course, it covers things like pregnancy and abortion, which I never paid for before as neither was going to happen.
BTW, the 10% increases aren't going away, they'll just be on a bigger base figure.
-
Many years ago I was working for the Florida Dept of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles when we got word that a guy that was ticketed for DUI while riding a bike had his appeal to the Supreme Court rejected. He argued that a bike wasn't a motor vehicle thus he couldn't be DUI. After the Supreme Court ruling we had to update all the offense codes that applied to vehicles so they could also apply to bicycles. My favorite: Commiting a lewd and lascivious act while on a Bicycle, :-)Although I dislike the helmet rule, as I grew up without it my son was fine with it having grown up with it.. But, what I hated was the rule to ride with traffic.. I always argued the rule and taught my son bad habits.. Sorry, I grew up where there was no rule and so my mother taught me to face the traffic and I had a friend killed shortly after they started pushing this rule, because she followed it and rode with traffic and never saw the car behind her that mowed her and her bike down.. Yeah at intersections and driveways, you have to take precautions because driver may not look for you.. But, I prefer being in control of my safety then handing the control over the unknown driver in the cars.
Churches Evicting Troops, and a new organization
in Issues & Politics
Posted
LDS doesn't make the cut because they have scriptures not found in the rest of the world's bibles. Don't think it has anything to do with not wanting LDS to take over. Let's be honest here; until quite recently most people around the world considered the Mormons to be a non-Christian cult. Every denomination of every faith has things about it that make outsiders scratch their heads but LDS has far more than most.
The welcome to non-Christian youth is no different to my United Methodist Church sponsored Scout unit welcoming Jews, Hindus and Buddhists.