hacimsaalk12

we, in our troop, have no form of PLB's. basically they aer to expensive. we do stress the buddy system, when it is neccessary (hiking, biking, things where we are spread apart). we carry radios and whistles, but after that nothing.

thanks for the summaries guys. sounds like all involved had a GREAT time, but all are glad to be back. i can't wait for 2010. i really hope i take the chance to get on the bus.

im not sure that any one is back from the jamboree yet, but when people get back lets hear what every one thought.

thanks

hacimsaalk

there are many quality outfitters out there. it is just a matter of finding them. this fall our adventure group is going with Cantrell's Ultimate Rafting (www.ultimaterafting.com). we are doing both the upper and the lower gauley. this is the first time we have tried them, so we have our fingers crossed.

well, all the bags are packed, and tomorrow at about 5:30, ill be headed to maine to hike part of the AT. so, if anyone wonders where i am, that is where i am.

hacimsaalk12

have fun at summer camp. we went to Camp Hank Forker the 3rd week in June. we took 13 boys and 3 adults. total we pulled out 58 meritbadges. i picked up 8 of them. we had a real blast. cant wait to go back in 2 years.

our troop just recently purchased a trailer. i never thought that people could stoop low enough to steal a boy scout traile, but i guess they can. we will make extra sure that it is in a secure location, heavily padlocked and locked up

"I recommend you quit being a contrarian and admit it, any boy can be trained to be a good leader - not a superstar perhaps, but a leader who can recognize group dynamics, bring his team together,get things done, and take direction from his leaders, both scout and scouter."

i will not admit something that isnt true. not all scouts will be good leaders, PERIOD. some are born leaders, and some will be leaders with a little bit of training.

"Of course it is up to them to want it and up to us to help them find that path"

well in this case it doesn't seem that this particular scout wants it.

"How would you be able to do this when, after 6 months, you have told him he has no potential as a Scout & you were not going to keep him around anymore? "

first of all you misquoted me. i said keep him around, meaning keep him as a PL. i never once mentioned dismissing him from the troop.

"OK, so it's only after you decide he has no potential, that you don't keep him around? "

once again i meant keep him as a PL. he may be better in another position, one that doesn't require as much leadership. such a scribe, historian, ect.

"Perhaps, after you have grown up & matured a bit more, & learned more about what it takes to be a leader, you will not be so quick to write someone off. "

so what exactly are you saying here. do you mean to say that i am young, foolish, and have no idea what makes a good leader because i am only a scout, and scouts dont know what a leader is, only adults do.

"One thing you can not do is elect someone PL & expect him to become a great (or even mediocre) PL the moment his name is announced. Especially if this is the first time he has held that position."

no body said that he was suppossed to be a good leader, right away. the problem in this particular post is that it has been going on for monthes. im at this point he has had all the training that he is going to be able to stand.

"There should also be some teaching & mentoring by the ADULT leaders. "

there should be SOME teaching and mentoring. there is only so much of this you can do. after that it goes in one ear and out the other.

"Hacimsaalk12 states that after 2 or 3 months you should "give up" on a Scout who is not preforming his job up to expectations. "

i didn't mean giving up on him totally. after 2 or 3 monthes of this so called teaching and mentoring, i think that it should become serious. this is the time when you really ask yourself and the troop if he has enough potential to keep around.

"What exactly do you think will happen with this Scout who has been "given up" on & kicked out of his POR? Should he stay with a Troop who he KNOWS has "given up" on him? If they have "given up" on him, will he receive any more training or chances to learn?"

it depends on the scout. some will stay in, others would drop out. the way i look at it is, the adults mentored him for almost a half a year. he still didn't want to change and step up to the job, so it is his and only his fault.

if it were in my troop he would have many chances, after he grew up and matured more. then, when he shows he is ready, he can be re-enstated to his positioned, all-the-while, he will still be mentored by the adults.

"When we "give up" on a boy (especially after only 2-3 months!) "

but this is after he has let down his patrol for 3 months. all that time he is being trained and mentored, and he still isnt changing, so one of his patrol-mates brought it to the SM's attention. then after another 2-3 monthes of really concentrating on him, it is time to really evalute him and decide whether or not there is any potential at all

"we "give up" on our responsibility as adult leaders in the BSA to "Train young people in citizenship, service, and leadership."

yes, adult leaders have that responsibility, but the scout doesn't have to have a position (such as PL) for the adults to train him in all these. if you remove a PL, in no way are you not teaching these values. you are re-enforcing them if you ask me. citizenship- if he is a boss, and he mis-treats his employees, do you think they will keep quiet about it? if he gets elected to a political position, and he does a terrible job, do you think he will get re-elected, NO. service- he would do his patrol a service, if he stepped down, since he isn't doing his job.

leadership- you can train him after he steps down, or is voted out of office. this also shows that in real life if he isnt a good leader, people aren't going to want him in control.

"Sorry - I am now jumping down from my soapbox & running quickly for cover! "

you'd better run boy. You can run but you can't hide.

we have a webloes ( weblos 2) campout in March, right before they cross over. we campout at our local scout camp, in cabins. Usually parents dont attend, unless they really want to. friday night, we sit around and play games until dark, then we go and do a snipe hunt (loads of fun, and if sombody thinks this is hazing, please dont get me started). about 9:00 pizza arrives, and we sit around the fire eating that. saturday, the scouts cook breakfast, and arter clean up its time for capture the flag. after lunch, we either play more capture the flag, or we play a game of the weblos choosing. saturday night, the adults cook us a garbage can turkey along w/ the "snipe" we caught friday. saturday night we play card/board games, and just chill. sunday we have breakfast and then pack up and go home.

"That the "current pulled off" the PFD of the scout however, raises a red flag. "

it sure does. whenever you go whitewater rafting, you are told that your PFD should not come up to your ears, if it does it isn't tight enough. unless he didn't have it tight enough, or it was unsnapped, he shouldn't have had any problem. who is to say he started out wearing one in the first place, or that it was adjusted correctly? i think that this was one of those times that not enough planning was done in advance.

no matter what happened, this is such an unfortunate event. my heart goes out to his family

total in the troop, we pulled out 58 mb's (we had 13 kids, so that averages about 4 per person). we won the water polo tournament, and we had lads of fun, which is all that really counts

me and the SPL ran the troop pretty much all week. we got the boys together and marched them to the parade grounds. we made sure they got to bed on time,if a boy needed help on a MB we helped them. and if there were any problems we solved them. except for one time when a ASM over extended his power, there were no problems.

we had a great week. no major problems. i pulled out 8 mb's.

(i will write more later, mom needs phone)

" improve in time to avoid disrupting the program for the boys he is supposed to be leading"

sure he will improve in time if you concentrate directly onhim for the next 7 1/2 years.

"I do not understand the reluctance to the thought that an adult leader would want to do everything he could in the way of leadership to help a scout succeed rather than deem him unfit or untrainable and give up on him."

i think that two months is enough time to try all these things. if after two, or maybe tree months, he still isn't the leader that you need, then i would "give up" on him.

" No one has said that nothing can be done, what was said was help the scout make a decision on what to do."

most scouts who think they are doing a good job, will not step aside, or step down. they believe that they are doing a good job, so why would they. i would give the scout a choice, then if he still decides not to step aside or down, then i would pursue it farther.

"We are not talking about "training" we are talking about leadership development, and that encompasses a lot more than just training. There is coaching, counseling, mentoring, and other skills involved besides just the act of training. "

now you are contradicting your self again. you said that scouts should be trained "If he has not had the training... "

"If you are not there to help every boy throughout his membership, then why are you there at all? "

you can't take a year or two, and spend it on developing one boy into a leader. during this time his patrol, and the troop in general suffers. now its not only about one scout, its about the whole troop. while you were "training" this one boy to be a leader, other scouts who are natural born leaders could have already left the troop.

"No one has said that nothing can be done, what was said was help the scout make a decision on what to do."

you said that no one has the right to take away a position. you said that they should just counsel the scout about to do.

hunt- you couldn't only let that happen a few times, you must let it go on, because no one has the power to dismiss him, not even the SM. you just train and train and train until you are blue in the face.

FSscouter- i think that a term is enough. you try and train him, like bob says. if he still ins't leader material by then, you train him (like bob says), and train him, and train him until he is. because of course you can't take a position from a boy for any reason.

it is not a SM's job to teach scouts. leadership is often learned, not taught. it is one of those trial and error things. if you mess up, your SM tells you. if you are doing a good job, your SM tells you that too. you can train a kid until you run out of funds to do so, and he can still be the worst leader you ever saw. the best raining is a positive role model, and trial and error. i would say the SM's main goal should be to attend meetings, and "ADVISE" the scouts,after all the troop is boy run, and trained, not SM run and trained. it is much easier for an older scout to "mentor" a scout about being a leader, than it is for a SM.

as far as teaching scouts- the SM chould have part in that, but the older boys should do it for the most part. it helps them develop leadership. scouts are more willing to listen to a fellow scout, than to a scouter. (This message has been edited by a staff member.)

it is most certainly not a leaders fault that a boy does not have leadership skills. he should be able to show them with or without training. if he has them, they will naturally flow, and show. if he doesn't, they wont show, and 9 times out of 10, he wont get elected.

bob- i guess since BSA doesn't outline any way to "punish" a boy, then it is up to the SM/SPL to decide. if they decide that they personally want to "impeach" him, then they have the power. if the patrol wants to take a vote to "impeach" him, then they can. very rarely will a scout step aside and give up his position.

SR540Beaver- no offense taken. after browsing the forums, i found that about 90% or more are scouters, leaving only about 10% to be scouts.

not to discourage anyone, but where is the YOUTH that is suppossed to be responding. this was meant as mostly a youth topic. i personally would like to see what other scouts like me have to say, not what a bunch of adults think (no offense to adults. you guys are great, but this is one that i think would be more beneficial from a scouts view)

p.s- i hope no one take offense to this

"The Scoutmaster and the SPL have the right to take the position"

i stand corrected. you are right. they didnt give it to him, so they cant take him awaay. in that case, i would say the patrol has the right to take a vote, and vote him out of office, since they DID vote him in.

in our troop the PLC

A.) sets dates for all activites

B.) plans what is to be done at the regular Tuesday scout meetings

C.) picks themes for every month of the year

D.) picks all outings

E.) plans all outings

the youth positions are pretty much first come first serve. if two people really want the position, sometimes we will let both do it, or if only one is needed we vote.

at the committee meetings, boys do not sit in unless

a.) the need approval for a project

b.) they are presenting something to the committee

c.) they have a problem, and are bringing it to the boards attention.

we do not regularly have a boy sit in on such meetings, because usually there are things discussed that boys should have not part in hearing. some meetings are ok for them to attend, others arent

the PL in in charge of the patrol. the SPL and SM tell him what needs done, but he determines who does it, how its done, when its done, ect. in the patrol, even the ASPL, and the SPL are under the PL, except in certain instances where problems arise, and the SPL/ASPL needs to stand up and take care of it.

i would probably take him aside and tell him how i and others thought he was doing, running our patrol. i would also tell him that he needed to quit slacking, and do his job. then, i would give him an amount of time to this all in. if he still hasnt started doing his job by then, i would talk to the SPL, tell him what was going on, and ask that something be done about it. after that it is out of my hands (that is the way the patrol method should work PL-ASPL-SPL-SM). if he is a good SPL, he will talk to the scout, and tell him he needs to do his part. if it cant be resolved there, then he would be refered to the SM, who hopefully can resolve it without having to take the position. in the worst case senario, the SM or SPL has the right to take the position, if he feels it in the best interest of the boys, and all the boys agree on it.