Gidget

John:

Thanks for the tips! I've been told before that we should be utilizing the OA for Day Camp promotion, but was never told how to access or utilize them. This year it came up again after National Camp School. As in the past, the people we sent were told to utilize the OA, but not given any information as to how to access or utilize them. I'm going to figure we're probably a wash for this year, but will pass this information on so that we start our contacts in October 2004 for the 2005 camps.

We do utilize Boy Scouts at Day Camp, and have had them move on to paid staff positions at the council resident camps. It turns out that Day Camp staff experience on a resume is a plus for them. I've not considered acknowledging their participation in the ways you mentioned. I'll be taking a look at that, too, for possible implementation in this year's camps.

Best experience with regards to utilizing Boy Scouts at Day Camp - besides the help and the fact that our cubs love working with them is that in 2003 I was asked to write character references for 4 separate Eagle reviews. (I'm probably calling it the wrong thing!) It was quite sobering to me to receive the requests, as each request included a sentence that indicated that the Boy Scout in question had chosen me because they felt that I was a person that had a significant impact on their life. Wow! That's made me think twice!

Anyway, thanks again. I'll pass your response on!

Gidget

Hi, fotoscout. I'm the District Cub Scout Day Camp Chair. We're currently trying to get help from the Order of the Arrow for camp promotions. This falls under their responsibility, but we're not having a lot of success. (It's our first year trying. I think we'll have better luck next year because we'll start asking for help earlier.)

The adults on our District Day Camp Committee (8 of us) have put together a skit that we take out and do at the pack meetings in March and April. Roundtables promote to adults. To get attendance you need to promote to the cubs. We have 30 packs, so scheduling the visits is interesting to say the least! We started doing this last year, and found that it didn't seem to make a lot of difference in the packs that already have been attending and have good attendance - their attendance stayed about the same. BUT it has made a difference in the packs that haven't traditionally come, with one pack jumping from 18 to 42 cubs attending! The skits are funny and based on the theme, not serious. I think that's why they go over so well. They take about 5 minutes. We show up in costume, go on and do the skit, introduce the Pack Coordinator at the end of the skit and then we're out of there. Last year we had 3 packs in one night! It was a lot of fun.

Gidget

I've been involved with Cub Scouts for 9 years. I've been a district trainer for 7 years, and trained at the council level as well. When the new cub scout training syllabus came out a couple of years ago - 3 I think, I was shocked. I've done the best I can to support it, but I still can't believe what was done to it. I feel that the previous course was more cub scout oriented - more program centered. The current course runs like an administrative manual. Even when you add the personal touches - the "pizzazz", the materials lack cub scout spirit. I understand that a panel of volunteers had a heavy hand in putting the new course together. Some how that panel got so concerned with making sure that eveyone knows the administrative part of cub scouting that they forgot to spend the time on the most important part of cub scouting - the program. It's not that I don't think that the adminstrative information is important. But the feedback from Den Leaders of all ranks in our district is that they came to learn to run den meetings and do field trips and crafts. Telling them to go to Pow Wow doesn't cut it. With a lot of Den Leaders you get one training chance - and you have to capitalize on that. I don't fee that the current training does that.

There are things I like about the current training - like the ability to pick up a segment and take it to a pack if needed. However, I think that most of it lacks the soul of cub scouting. I don't understand how that happened. Several trainers across our council raised this issue when it came out and we were all told we just had to make the best of it. That's what I've tried to do, but I sure feel that it's caused a difference in the response from the leaders. It's funny, but in writing this thread I've just realized for me what the difference is that I'm seeing. Leaders are intellectually committed to scouting, rather than emotionally committed. In cub scouts that emotional committment is key to success. Knowing in your heart that the program is good and will benefit your son, and other boys - that's what causes leaders to go the second mile and be great leaders. That's what drives me to do more. It's because ultimately I believe in my heart that participation in this program is or could be one of the greatest opportunities that a boy could have, and so I act accordingly. I strive to provide those experiences.

Anyway, that's what I think! OK - long thread, sorry! But, it would be interesting to see if there's a correlation in the timing frame - the new cub leader training verses the dramatic membership drop. I also belive that the Supreme Court ruling had an impact too. I hate seeing kids used as pawns in adult issues.

(This message has been edited by Gidget)

The Leader Specific sessions (Tiger, Cub, Webelos, Pack and CM) aren't exactly the same. The structure is the same, and some of the topics are the same, but the information varies from position to position.

Scoutldr: Regarding your council doing the advertising - Our DE makes sure that our training is in the council newsletter, but we provide the information that's printed. That way we can give specific information regarding what training is being offered. Your Training Chair, or the person coordinating Cub Scout training (sounds like you) should be controlling the information going out. Our district provides flyers to the council for distribution in case someone calls and asks for it.

We offer District training 3 times per year, but will go to a pack if needed. Fall and spring we run all 5 breakouts. Our facility is reserved about 9 months in advance - once the district dates are approved for the next year, the facility is reserved for all training sessions. Our registration form requires the enrollee to indicate what session he/she is attending so we know what staffing requirements we'll have. Our winter session is for Den Leaders only. - Tigers, Cubs and Webelos leaders. We find that the new CM's and CC's are in place before the fall training and spring training, but den leaders seem to fall into place anytime from October through December.

My suggestion to you is that once your district calendar is in place for the 2004-2005 year you book all your training sites. In our council that means a budget needs to be in, too, in case your facilities require immediate payment.

We generally stay with the same facility if possible, because everyone is familiar with it.

Most of our flyers go out at Roundtable, and some get emailed out.

Our council website has each district's training dates listed, but no form on line.

Hope this helps!

" Medical services is one of the few commodities that we purchase upfront without knowing the price. The main cause is insurance."

I've worked in insurance for 20+ years. Insurance really isn't the main cause. The main cause(s) are a lack of understanding by patients that they are consumers, and need to be responsible in their purchase of health and dental care. Another cause is the rising number of law suits, (some are appropriate, some aren't) that are forcing practitioners to pay for sky rocketing malpractice coverage.

FOG - if this was an initial visit, along with the extractions, your surgeon is charging a fee to set up files that should contain completed forms with medical history. X-rays also should have been taken. There is a fee for the x-rays, but their review is usually part of the office visit fee. The information gathered on the office forms and the x-rays should have been reviewed by the oral surgeon prior to the extractions. Under American Dental Association guidelines the oral surgeon has the right to charge for this, and given our sue happy society, his/her malpractice carrier would expect that review.

Anyway, I'm not saying that medical or dental providers are always in the right - they're not, but the real problem is the lack of consumer responsibility. That includes following doctors orders, finishing rx's, asking about unusual charges, asking about treatments that are being suggested, asking about alternatives... and a lot more!

I read this thread last night and woke up this morning thinking about it. (OK, that's kind of scary!) I don't really understand why at times there seems to be so much hostility towards the DE.

Now, before there's a response that lists all of their faults, I don't know any volunteers (and our district has some incredible volunteers) that at one time or another hasn't made life difficult for another scouter. Since I've been involved in scouting (9 years now) I've viewed DE/volunteer relationships as a team. You don't necessarily have to be friends or get along all of the time, you just need to be focused on providing the best program for the boys. -And just because I use a paper daytime planner doesn't mean that my DE has to. Where I see the most conflict are "seasoned scouters" that dictate (or try to) to the DE how to do their job. I know that most of the time they're well meaning, but sometimes I seriously think that if we had the Good Lord as our DE they would still be complaining about his service! Also, when I have a problem or disagreement with my DE, I talk to him. - Not to his boss. Why would I talk to his boss without trying to work the issue through with him first? I think it's very disrespectful to go around others without trying to work it through first, and I don't see dictating to someone as working it though.

Life For Life, I think you had a great idea, which I'm going to pass on. The one area that my DE really needs help with is referring problems back to the correct volunteer source. I think that's why he's overwhelmed at times. There have been a lot of great responses on this thread, so thanks to everyone. There were a couple of other ideas I'm going use, too. Also, thanks Dave! I appreciate your time and presence on the Forum.(This message has been edited by Gidget)(This message has been edited by Gidget)

I should have said that the reason I was laughing is because we have volunteers in our council and district that act like they think they're the part of BSA Internal Affairs. I guess that's not really funny, but Dave, you've just given a tool to deal with them! Humor! Never thought of that before! Thanks!

"The black loops are worn only by official members of the BSA internal affairs department which investigates secret uniform violations of a punishable nature -- JUST KIDDING!"

Laughed pretty hard! You made my night!!

Just a question for you. Does your pack have the highest number of people attending, or, do they have the best attendance because, using the number of adults that could be there your pack has the highest percentage of leaders attending?

I was in a pack that had 6 leaders. (13 boys) All 6 leaders attended RT - 100% attendance. Other packs received awards for attendance because they had more people attending, but, based on the actual people that should be there, we had the best attendance in the district, and never were recognized.

That was a hard thing for our pack to swallow.

OK - you can tell your buddy to put a sock in it! I called my council guy and he looked up your reference and told me that the Camp Comissioner (*Note - there is no such position as a Day Camp Commissioner) is similiar to a Unit Commissioner. They work with the packs to ensure camping opportunities. They report to and take direction FROM the Program Director. He said in our council, when they're used, they function like SM's at Boy Scout camp.

OK - I probably shouldn't be so aggressive in my response, but honestly!! Sometimes the cubs are more mature than the adults!!

Gidget

I have the last two versions of the Day Camp manual from school, and I don't recall seeing a "Day Camp Commissioner" position in my material. What is that?

Here's an idea. Ask her to write documentation for you. Like your Day Camp manual, with policies and procedures for lost boys, emergencies, YP, etc. And possibly to put together the program material or training material or camp orientation material for your walking den leaders or station leaders. You, of course, would have to review and approve it.

DS - Is there a different Day Camp school for military units?

Gidget(This message has been edited by Gidget)(This message has been edited by Gidget)

3 edits!! There should be spell check on this! If there are anymore errors they're staying!!!(This message has been edited by Gidget)

Hi, Joni. Interesting situation. One of the things I did this fall was put together a "What will I be doing" sheet for the Program Director and the Camp Director. While the camp book from Day Camp school has job descriptions, it doesn't really explain the practical application pre and post camp, and since they've merged the Day Camp school sessions into one, you don't get it there, either. It's been an eye opener for a lot of people, and it's ended up being a good check list so that tasks don't fall between the cracks. Our positions for camp on the district level are District Day Camp Chair, Camp Director and Program Director. We have sheets for each position. We kind of work together like a COR, CC and CM. (Sorry - that sounds a little odd, doesn't it!) What position has the person you're having a problem with assumed? One way to provide a clarification would be to put out an org chart and description of responsibilities. Is my response anywhere in the ballpark?

Gidget

Just a quick question. I notice Senior and Junior forum designations. What does that mean? When does a Junior become a Senior and a Senior become...well, what is the next level?

Just finished with Pow Wow. Know how we came up with courses? Hit on Pow Wow sites and dumped their courses and descriptions on to an excel spread sheet. Had over 250 course ideas for cubs when we went to plan Pow Wow. have stored ideas for University of Scouting if we go that direction. Have about 250 options for that, too.

A lot of the Pow Wow registration material has the session descriptions, so a trainer can take that and make up their own material.

Louie:

No, your advancement chair is not supposed to question you on the advancement information you turn in. At every training I've ever attended we are told that regarding advancement, if a parent or leader says it's done, it's done.

The next time it happens you may want to ask the woman why she's quizzing you - say something like this: "I notice you always ask me a lot of questions when I turn the advancement information in. Am I not filling the form out correctly, or am I missing information?" Put the oness back on her to explain where she's coming from. She may be jealous of your den. If she says that you just seem to earn so many awards, offer to send her your den schedule to help her out so that her den can earn more awards. In my mind, the key is not to take her comments personally. Instead, view them as a way for her to get more information from you, a good leader, to get her den operating more efficiently. If she continues to be a jerk about this, talk with the Cubmaster and if that gets you no where, go to the Committee Chair. Good luck!

A couple of things... (well 4 things)

1. Having rolls of quarters for the laundry really helps!

2. Bring council strips to trade. I brought patches from activities, and council strips. The council strips went pretty quick. I could barely move the activity patches.

3. Someone told me that the towns around Philmont fund projects with the money they get from speeders going to Philmont. When I was out there (1999) the speed limit changed on different parts of the road, so watch it, because if you don't, chances are the highway patrol will!

4. Come home and share what you learn! Take your notes with the anticipation of sharing the information with others at RT, Pow Wows etc.

Hope you and your family have a great time! I really enjoyed myself and I learned a lot.(This message has been edited by Gidget)

Ok - this brings up an incredible pet peeve of mine. I work on the district level. I'm on the district committee and a member of the Cub Scout RT staff. I also am a trainer for our district training committee.

I am so sick of complaints from people that don't hear anything from the district or council but don't bother to come to Roundtable, the main source of information from the district and council. I'm tired of ongoing discussings with committee chairs and cubmasters who don't push training, and tell their leaders that they don't need to bother to go to Roundtable, and then aren't able to figure out why their packs are weak, they lose boys and they can't get anyone to volunteer.

Our council sends out mailings to registered leaders. - A newsletter, and appropriate mailings for upcoming activities. If you're a Webelos leader you'll get mailings for Webelos camp. But all other mailings go to the CM and CC. They are expecting them to get the information out to the leaders. Does that always happen? No. A lot of CC's and CM's decide on their own what opportunities they'll let people know about. And, mind you, our newsletter goes to REGISTERED leaders. At cub training I find that maybe 1/3 of the people attending are registered.

Sometimes it literally feels like as a volunteer I battle other volunteers to try to get the program to work. It bites!

If you've already said you don't want a gift, why not try once more. This time say you really don't want a gift, but if people feel the need to get you something you'd appreciate a donation being made in your name to... the council uniform exchange, some council program, or your local council, your district, some other cause you believe in, etc.

If I was on your staff, I'd honor your request and make the donation... Just a thought!

Well, it's not quite the same, but in my pack we sell wreaths as a fundraiser. The Pack Committee comes up with the cost per cub for the pack expenses for the year. It's considered the pack dues. All expenses are added together and then divided by the number of boys, so even though the awards for Webelos are more expensive, the Tigers pay the same amount as the Webelos. Then the boys are told now many wreaths they have to sell to cover their pack dues. If they don't sell enough to cover the dues they have to pay the difference. If they sell more than the required amount the profit is split 50/50 between the pack and the cub. The excess money for the cub is put into a camping/activity account. They can use the money for camps or District Activities. Each cub gets an accounting after wreath sales are done. (How else can you teach them about money?) It works pretty well. If the boy leaves the pack, the money in his account is forfeited to the pack. When the boy moves on to Boy Scout the balance in his account is paid to his troop for him. One of our Webelos will go to his troop next year with over $500.00 to see him through his Boy Scout activities.

Ok, you made me curious. I sent an email to 16 professionals from my council. So far 10 responses - all right handed! 9 males and 1 female.

Bats-Right

Throws ball-Right

Football-don't play

Writes-Right

When I have bags of groceries I carries heavest weight on left arm, though!

Here's my two cents worth! While I think that recruiting is a year round process, I believe that spring is a great time to recruit cub scouts. Most councils and /or districts run cub day camps, or webelos overnight camps. These are great activities to get boys into scouting, and usually packs don't have to do much more than sing up, pay and come. What more could you ask for??!!

Hi, mom! You can also let your DE and unit commissioner know what's going on. The Cub training has changed so that training can be taken to the units when needed. (If you have a willing training staff.) Last spring I arranged for a training session for 2 den leaders and 2 committee members. I was the District Cub Training Coordinator, and we had a new pack start up. They had just missed district training, and the next training throught the council wouldn't be until October. The DE talked with me and asked me to set up a special training session. We brought the training to the pack and did the Leader Specific training. The 4 pack members will attend New Leader Essentials in October.

One of the ways our district got attendance was through the unit awards. Once a person was selected as, say, the Den Leader of the year, all of the people that nominated that person were told. -The catch is that they didn't know anyone else was told. They were/are told that it's their responsibility to get the person to the dinner. -And usually they signed up so that the person wasn't alone. One year we had two awards coming out of one pack. Each of the people that were getting awards had nominated the other person. It was fun to watch how they made sure they got each other there, and then to see their face when they saw their names on the program!

Yep, went to Day Camp school for Program in February of 1999, and went for Administration in May of 1999. Also went in Feb 2003, as my certification ran out 12/02. Personally I prefer the old training over the new combined course.