Get Outdoors

I can't imagin council not doing background checks. Way too much liability. If someone with a "record" did do something and council didn't do a background check, someone's could be in a whole lot of trouble.

Now I could see where they wouldn't check those that renew membership.

Well I'm sorry that I ever started this thread. I never thought it would get some of the type of negative responses it did. Maybe it's time to trash this thing. The last few pages acomplished next to nothing. Regardless of your personal opinions; it's not going to make a bit of differance what National does.

The email I received says:

The Boy Scouts of America, along with the leadership of National executive board member Jose Nio invite you to the first-ever

Spanish Wood Badge Course at the Bechtel Summit in West Virginia to be held in conjunction with our friends from Scouts de

Mexico. Certain segments of this course will also be conducted in English.

So National is putting on a wood badge course, done in spanish with the help with our Scouters from Mexico. Nowhere does it say it's about World or National Jambo. The way I read it; it's simply a spanish speaking woodbadge course. I took it to be that their target market is for adult leaders in this country that don't speak or understand very good english and probably work with our youth in the US that don't speak or understand english the oportunity to take woodbadge. Nowhere did I read where this is a goodwill gesture to our friends from Mexico.

I employ a fair number of spanish speaking citizens. Unfortuantly I've unknowingly employed a few non citizens. (who are now sitting in jail in Texas and will be deported once they finish serving their term in another 2 years) I choose to hire these spanish speaking people and therefore chose to learn a little spanish and spend money for some of our managers to learn spanish. In exchange, I expect these people to do their best to learn to comunicate in english the best they can.

Scouters that work with our spanish speaking youth have a difficult job but I feel these leaders first language should be english and their second spanish. I don't think it should be the other way around.

If this is a goodwell thing with Mexico....FANTASTIC but if it's just another "let's try to please everyone and keep the lawyers off our backs" Then National is wrong....IN MY OPINION.

With some resistance from some parents, one commitee member and a few leaders...I the SM, somewhat encourage cell phones!

I'm not one that is on the phone all the time, i don't text often, don't use facebook and/or surf the net with my phone. I have a real problem with people everywhere feel the need to use them anytime/anywhere with little regard to others.

I teach that a cell phone is a tool and should be used as such. Just like you would with a pocket knife or matches. If you abuse the tool and it becomes a toy, it will be left at home or it becomes mine until you get home.

Today's cell/smart phones are a great technology, instead of fighting that, why not embrace it and let it become another way to teach and learn.

As the originator of this "hate thread" as someone put it. I personally think it's sad that we, the Boy Scouts of America feel it's important to offer training in spanish for adults and citizens of the United Stated of America. It's my understanding this course is ment for leaders that don't speak or understand the english language.

Do we have such leaders that don't speak or understand english that will eventiually benifit boys in our country that also don't speak or understand english? Probably. Maybe instead of WB in Spanish, we offer english courses to adult leaders instead so they can eventually take WB in english.

I hope it all works out for the best but if it doesn't....

It's not about the beads, neckerchief, some animal or coffee cup. It's about you made the effort to become a leader for you to better serve boys!

Great comments everyone. I and my right hand man pretty much make every troop meeting and camping trip for the past 4 years. I guess that explains the burn-out I'm feeling.

Some of the best SM's I've seen are the ones that are seen but rarely heard at meetings and outings. It's the folks that are the organizers and deligators that seem to make it look easy.

In our council if you want to attend Jambo as a leader:

1) You have to be "connected" and part of the adult scouting group, You know, the guys you see at all the adult functions but rarely see them working with youth.

2) It's seems that it's very helpful to be part of the woodbadge training staff group.

3) Quite a few adults that went last time were not ACTIVE SM's in troops, most were "retired" and sat on district boards

4) Experience and ability to work well with youth is not required, you just have to have been around and impressed the right people.

This may sound very harsh but it is what it is. We unfortunatly work within an organization that is controled by a "select" group.

If anyone said you were rejected because of your type I, have a lawyer file a complaint with national.

Thoughts?

The Boy Scouts of America, along with the leadership of National executive board member Jose Nio invite you to the first-ever

Spanish Wood Badge Course at the Bechtel Summit in West Virginia to be held in conjunction with our friends from Scouts de

Mexico. Certain segments of this course will also be conducted in English.

Oscar Santoyo | All Markets Strategist

BOY SCOUTS OF AMERICA

Program Impact

1325 West Walnut Hill Lane - S209 | P.O. Box 152079

Irving, Texas 75015-2079

P 972.580.2488

oscar.santoyo@scouting.org

We're 1875 and will not be turning it into council.

1) The form is a poor indicator of the true health of the unit.

2) Someone got paid a whole lot of money to put this program together.

3) Set up to make council look good. (bonuses)It's all about the numbers.

Pretty much a waste of time.

I think there's some material in this thread for a scoutmaster minute.

I agree Desertrat

More of us need to be thinking "outdoor classroom" Anything that can be done indoors can be done outdoors. I oftn look back on outdoor adventures that first appear that nothing was really acomplished but then I think "wow, they worked together, someone took the lead, they didn't burn the pancakes this time, they worked out that disagreement on there own, they got to be closer friends and they werent sitting one the couch playing video games." It was another great trip were I came back with thinking "it was all worth while"

Basement and I need to get together for a cup of something sometime. I think we've encountered some of the same BS garbage and we might see things from the same perspective.

From my perspective:

90% of leaders/members at the unit level are in it for the boys. The other 10% are in it for their own son's advancement (Eagle!)

At the District level less the 50% are in it for the boys. 30% are in it to remain in scouting and hang out with like minded friends, the remaing 20% are in it to look important. You can spot them by the amount of "awards" they wear on their uniforms. We have about 80 scouters on our district commitee, The same 20 people are the ones we see doing district events, helping with training, take charge of a roundtable topic. We never see the others in the trenches. All the while we have units that postpone trips due to not having enough leaders, we have scoutreach troops that can't do alot of things because the don't have enough help, we get emails just before a camporee looking for help to "man a station". But when district is giving out awards, or there's a adult event that involves food, they come out of the woodwork.

At council; 10% are in it for the boys. The other 90 are in it for the paycheck. Someone close to me (also an Eagle Scout) spend a good number of years employed as a DE. As many of you know his main job was to raise money. Due to the fact that a good percentage of his salary was based on commissions, he made a very nice living. He quit being a pro-scouter and took a large cut in income because he couldn't stand being around coworkers that didn''t have a clue about what scouting was supposed to be about. In his office, the scout law did not apply. If council is in it for the boys, what has council done for you in the last year that didn't involve charging or asking you for money?

I've made a promise to myself, when it's time for me to stop working directly with a unit, I will not serve district of council unless there's a posative outcome directly to a young person. I don't want to become one of those people this is not in it 100% for the boys.

Get Outdoors misses the point of Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills. No one expects proficiency out of inexperienced trainees.

Like Seattle Pioneer, I participate as a trainer for OLS twice a year in a three district combined effort. The people who go through it, both experienced and inexperienced, all widely praise our course. The training staff also picks up ideas from the trainees over time.

Some straightforward lecture is unavoidable, but we make our training as hands on as possible, with numerous live demonstrations

eisley, I don't think I'm missing the point. First, let me say the folks that taught my IOLS were awsome, most had very extensive knowledge. I have no complaints what so ever in regards to the staff. I think the course (as outlined by the BSA) overall misses the mark. The focus should be teaching us how to work with kids in an outdoor enviornment. It's where most of us have little to no experience (except being a parent) and many of us struggle with this. The training I took and what I'm hearing; is it's a game focused on talking adults to first class. It souldn't be about the outdoor skills, it should be about dealing with teens in the 21st centry through an outdoor classroom. Those that care will take it upon themselves to teach themselves how to build a fire, tie knots, raise the flag and pack a backpack. We need help understanding how we work with today's youth. Something that the BSA gets a failing mark it.

"Get Outdoors, you said, "Real wilderness first aid certification (I'm not talking the BSA thing they do a camp)..." You might be confusing Wilderness First Aid (WFA) certification (which is the same whether from a BSA provider or any other organization like the Red Cross) and Wilderness Advanced First Aid (WAFA), which is a more advanced class that covers more advanced topics, and Wilderness First Responder (WFR), which is an even more advanced class which covers even more advanced topics, and then above all of those you can get a "Wilderness" cert added on to whatever "professional" medical certification you already have, such as W-EMT or W-RN or something. And of course all of those are "above" a normal First Aid (FA) certification. I don't know what the summer camp was doing that you referenced, but if it's a "Wilderness First Aid" cert, then it's the same as any other WFA cert. Then again, I suppose they might have just been talking about first aid in the wilderness and not actually offering a Wilderness First Aid certification.

Basically, the hierarchy is as follows: FA -> WFA -> WAFA -> WFR -> W-EMT/W-RN/W-whatever

My experience with WFA training I received from the BSA about an 8 hr course during a long weekend was very similar to a basic first aid day class the Red Cross teaches. Just in a more "what hapens outdoors" kind of way. A few years before I took the BSA course, I took the basic WFA from a professional trianing company. Same course but wayyyyyyy more advanced than what BSA was trying to teaching.

Bottom line is "you get what you pay for" $100.00 vs. $350.00

Stosh,

The folks that really try to make a difference at those that in the trenches, working with boys. The others have forgotten why we do this. It's not about I and us...it's about them. The probelm is; to many of the good apple people leave the program bacause a few of the bad apples.

It doesn't matter if your were a scout or an Eagle scout. At the end of the day you have chosen to guide and mentor our youth. Nothing else matters and you shouldn't care how others judge you.

For what it's worth:

I and the unit I serve has about no use for our council. The council the is supposed to support us does nothing for us without asking for money. Our district is better by actually manking an attempt to support the units through camporees, training and a very good roundtable. Unfortunatly it's only about 20 people that make this happen. It makes me wonder what the other 60 people do that are sitting on the district commitee. (besides trying to look important or powerful.

Some of us "old timer's" in the troop have come to the conclusion that if BSA closed the doors and fired everyone at council, it would be business as usual and we wouldn't skip a beat. Some of us believe without having to waste time and energy dealing with councils garbage, we would probably have a better program.

I know I'm going to get slammed for this but oh well... IOLS is a very bad course and needs a serious over-haul. When I did my training, I learned next to nothing and walked away from the course feeling it was a waste of a long weekend. Yes it was fun and good to spend time with other mentors of youth.

The breakout for first aid; seroiusly? Basic first aid and CPR is an 8 hour class. Real wilderness first aid certification (I'm not talking the BSA thing they do a camp) is an 18 hr + course. Having the one hour breakout is a waste of an hour. BSA should mandate basic FA/CPR/AED for all leaders.

Knots is something you learn by practice. Direct participants to the scout handbook to learn knots. Spend your time teaching those how to teach others.

Navigation; people spend years and countless trips refining this skill. Present ideas on ways to make this skill fun and interesting to the scouts.

Fire building; focus should be on teaching totin chip not fire building.

LNT: teach the very basics for real life. Advance LNT comes after the basic stuff becomes automatic.

Spend quality time with camp skills such as site selection, weather conditions, food safety, gear, the art of backpacking. Provide resourses for maps, camping areas and great hiking spots for youth.

Nature is another total waste, what can you learn in one hour? This is a life long quest.

Most participants aren't there to play games. Don't do it. They are adults there to learn to work with kids, don't treat them like kids. Many are there because someone told them they had to do it. Keep it fun but treat it like any business training.

The best things I learned when I took IOLS came from the free time sharing ideas and stories with other leaders.

The whole idea of TF to 1st class in a weekend is unrealistic. Outdoor skills is not something that can be learned in a weekend. It MUST be practiced. The expectation of the course should motivate the participants to seek the knowledge, learn on there own and attempt to personally master outdoor skills.

Ladies, When ya all execute a #1, what do you do with the TP? (Cover with leaves, cathole, pack it out) My wife joined us for a day without modern facilities. I escourted her and I handed her the TP and a zip-lock. She looked at me like I was insane. (I packed it out for her)

Hmmm.....sounds like the Boy Scout Handbook.

Like most we're 3 meetings a month and camp once a month. About 30 nights of camping offered including summer camp.

However we're going to be trying something new this year:

Two meetings a month instead of three. (we don't meet on camping weekend)

Camp 10 months out of the year insted of 12.

Offer some day-trips instead of "meeting at the church"

The whole idea is to focus on quality instead of quantity. We are looking at taking a few camping trips and extending them 3 nights. If we try the two meetings a month, the PLC can put more time into planing two good quality meetings instead of having to plan three ok meetings.

What's a squirt gun? We call them "water propulsion devises" In our troop, considered as important as your outdoor essentials for all water related activities!

More and more "rules" = more time required from volunteers = harder to find good, dedicated, willing and able volunteers = burnout = less activities = .......

As one simple example, our council no longer allows ANYONE to purchase a Merit Bade or rank advancement badges unless that form that get's filled out at a BOR is turned in at the scout shop. So a SMC, then a BOR, someone needs to drive 25 miles to get a badge A week or two later we have a badge to present to the scout. Since the troop can't "stock" badges...."A scout is recognized ASAP" is out the door.

The paid folks forget about "what can we do to make it easier for Mr/Mrs volunteer?"

Wow, everyone trying to be friendly curtious and kind but I'll cut to the chase....

I say resign, Anyone that would blindside a kid a day before he turns 18 has no clue about the Scout Oath and Law and shouldn't have the privilage of working with youth. Really looks like this guy has more issues with dad than he does with the kid. Where were you when this kid was working on second class and life?

Amazing how many people involved with scouting are on power trips.

Imagining my scouts getting together 25 yaers from now and inviting me. There could be no better gift than receiving that invitation.