eghiglie

I give them a 7.

The belt is lame, it really doesn't hold up the pants well and the strap doesn't stay in place for size adjustment. Also hanging a leatherman on it is hard.

When converted to shorts they are too short.

Don't sit too close to the fire.

The material is great though it dries really fast and is light weight.

The pockets are also great.

Most troop t-shirts I've seen have some very clever designs on them and the major factor for Scouts is that the price is reasonable and not a budget buster. Our Troop sells them for $8 or so, we get them from a local guy. We also offer a polo-shirt for about $25 that has a full neck and is nicer.

The one draw-back to t-shirts though is that they are usually light weight and most don't really offer much sun protection. There is also no pocket.

Having a collection of fishing shirts that I wear to work, fishing, camping and hunting I like them a lot better. I don't have any issues being in the sun but I also don't go looking for sunburn.

So maybe there is a safety factor here. Its also quite possible that this is being done to drive sales.

I've been getting used uniform shirts on eBay for years and rarely spend more that $10. With my sons growing like weeds its been a big money saver.

Its also a great physics lesson. There are college up in Pennslyvania that use PWD cars to teach physics to college freshman. A local high school uses the mousetrap racers to teach the subject to HS juniors.

I tried to teach some of the math to my sons, my 10 year old doesn't get the math (yet). The 16 year old, who took physics in HS, understood it.

My son was a cub for 4 years (wolf to webelos), we made all 4 cars together. He designed the body style, some cutting, sanded and painted them. He also did all the wheel work. Balancing the cars though was a joint effort.

He also managed to earn 1 medal and 3 thropies over the years. 1st Place for the pack one year, 1 place in district for another.

As a surprise to him I made a shadow box that displays the cars on the walls. The cars were always falling off the shelf.

I often wonder why Troops don't do PWD, I know my son is going to miss this part of cubs.

The Cub Scout Oath and Law of the Pack are not anywhere near as specific as the Scout Oath and Scout Law.

This year we had a kid who for some reason didn't get one of the BSA kits from the Pack at the Holiday Party. The Den Leader told the parents to get the PineCar kit at Michaels, and gave him the money out of Den Dues to pay for it.

The parents bought the Pinecar kit and built it.

They show up at the race with the car, its entered and passes inspection somehow. Someone more alert notices the wheels and axles after inspection and raises the issue to the head race official. The race official is a close friend of the family. The race official says to let it race as "they didn't know".

The car loses.

I learned to not fret over hair on my kid the hard way. When I was a kid my parents used to make us get haircuts every 2 weeks. The barber was a great friend of theirs.

When I was 16 I stopped getting haircuts because they cost me too much money.

When I was 20 my brother and I started losing my hair, its a genetic thing. That has hit every generation.

I told me sons to enjoy it and get it cut when they feel right about it because they could lose it. However, they are both required to wash it every other day.

I live in a very conservative city and county in a state in the United States. There is a local college in the city that has a ton of pranksters. I'm one of the county peace officers that happens to be stationed near the campus. Trained by the US Marine Corps in police work, retired from USMC five years ago. In the Corps we had our share of mooners and most got a Captains Mast.

The Scout Camp is on the other side of the same County and when I was a Cub Den Leader we were there quite often to camp with Cubs.

We local cops know enough between accidential and intentional. Not everyone goes to jail or gets a ticket for every offense.

On occasion though, there would be a boy arrested at the Camp for various serious antics, sometimes its a sexual offense. There has been a major focus on sex offenses in the State of Florida. If the camp staff is calling in some offenses then we're sure that even more are getting handled at the camp.

So what I'm actually wondering is what leverage does a SPL/SM have when a Boy Scout is caught doing something incorrect?

Is it corect for every offense laughed off for boys "as boys will be boys"?

What does it take for a boy to get sent home?

Or some extra camp chores?

If my questions are silly I will stop asking them.

Having just gone through SM training yesterday I gotta wonder what the outcome of this was. Meaning what punishment or counseling did the kid get.

I agree that if an adult did it, its bad news and a time of reflection (suspension) is needed. Hopefully he will take smart pills, but it ain't worth a lifeong suspension.

But it appears that if a kid does it its OK to minimize? Why?

We're supposed to be teaching them the right way to be leaders but not any consequences. I don't get it.

In the county I live in a mooning could land you in jail with charges of indecent exposure and public lewdness.

So I'm asking for someone to explain whey the kid who did is not deserving of some consequence? Like having to make a public apology, getting suspended from a campout or two, getting stuck on the duty roster with cleanup for the whole week, note home to mom.

Whether it falls under YP or not its still needs a correction made so that he thinks twice next time and other boys see the consequence of behaviour.

In our Council we use the term Den Chief inter-changeably for Day Camp and working with the Pack.

For Day camp any boy scout is eligible to work, from Scout all the way up to Eagle. Frankly we struggle to get Boy Scout help at Day Camp. The title of DC while they are at Day Camp is a 'convienence' because without the grunt work they do Day Camp would be a flop. The job lasts a week and the boys get service hour credit. Its been an accepted practice that we call them Den Chiefs.

We also have many boys who act as Den Chiefs for a Cub Scout Den. These boys usually stay with the Den for 10 months. The boy must be 1st Class and the SM/SPL must know they are looking for the job to get leadership hours for Rank. The Den Leader makes a selection and the boy has to come to one Committee meeting to be talked too (sort of an interview, but not an interrgation). We (the Pack) also pays there Den Chief class fee, usually $20.

eamonn makes a great point that my son (and I) took for granted.

The 5 troops I contacted were the troops that people from our pack went to in past years.

The 2 troops we visited all knew me and my son.

In the Troop he picked, the Patrol he was placed in half the boys knew him from camping or the pack. He fit right in at the first Troop meeting.

It should be more his choice than anything else, I know scouting has a been a great thing for my son overcoming school issues.

Most troops have a First Year Emphasis program that all the new Scouts are put into. Its a great program for getting them to first class.

Your son though my feel out of place being with the younger kids in that plan. But talk to the SM (or ASM) and see what they can suggest. It might also help if your son borrows a book before joining to get a head start on the Oath and Law.

Because he is older and more mature he might earn some of the ranks quicker. But he would still learn some valuable life skills even in a short time.

We were looking for the same thing last year but were not happy with any price or quality of anything branded for Scouts. Either the prices were high or the product was flimsy. Some things online looked nice but the prices and shipping charges put us off and they didn't seem big enough anyway.

So we went to a local Michaels and found a bigger size shadow box used for jerseys. We lined the inside with a yellow and blue cloth on top of cardboard.

We then printed out a larger cub logo on photo paper. Using straight all the patches were attached. Belt loops were hotglued and the other pins were pushed into the carboard.

We did these as a den but each boys box was unique because not everybody earned the same stuff.

The boxes turned our really nice. We saved quite a bit using a Michaels 40% coupon that the store applied to the whole order instead of one item.

When we made the visits it wasn't that we went looking for the beads but at Troop 1 the beads and patches for NYLT and Univ of Scouting were in evidence. At Troop 2 they were not apparent on any of the leaders or the boys who stood up and spoke to us.

With 2 boys I eventually needed 4 shirts. Ebay is great, never paid more than $15 for great shirts.

District Shirt - all knots but no other things other than my Bobwhite patrol patch.

Webelos Den Leader Shirt - only my arrow of light knot. I wear two patrol patches on this one. Bobwhite and Frogs (the den name).

Troop Shirt #1 - no knots and minimal decorations other than my Bobwhite patrol patch from WB. I wear this most of the time.

Troop Shirt #2 - all knots and all decorations like my Recruiter Strip. I use this for Honor Courts.

I found packs members intimadted by lots of knots and troops/crews comfortable with them.

My parish just awarded me a St. George medal for helping a bunch of kids earn God and Family.

Our results were:

Troop 1

New Webelos are seperated into seperate patrols BUT at each patrol meeting for 20 minutes all boys less than 1st Class are pulled into a First Year group to work on getting first class. The troop has 50 boys in 4 patrols. Merit badge work is not encouraged until 1st Class because the FYE thing is done, but its not discouraged, when the boy goes to summer camp they can work on them so long as the FYE things are done. At 1st Class they push merit badges and help them get to Star, Life and Eagle. They don't push Eagle but they help them if the boy is motivated. They do have about 6 eagles a year. Troop dues are $75 a year, of that $12 is for BL and $10 for BSA fees. We went to normal Troop meeting and it was well organized. They try and keep summer camp to about $300 to $350. The provide tents for boys and adults. When an adult goes comping with this Troop they just pay a meal fee. Quite a few Woodbadgers and I liked that as I'm a Bobwhite.

Troop 2

New Webelos are put into a patrols together with a PL and such that are Star/Life. The troop has 120 boys. The push advancement and have about 2 eagles a month. But they don't let you get Eagle till you are about 16. They have 2 sailboats and 10 canoes. Troop dues are $124 a year, of that $12 is for BL and $10 for BSA fees. We went to a Webelos Open House and all the cool stuff was shown. 40 boys were there and 25 signed up on the spot. This means that the troop has 145 boys now. Summer camp costs can vary and this year its $450. Boys also have to supply there own tent. Adults have to pay the same camping cost for all camping trips. I saw no WB beads but its possible they don't wear them. One thing bothered me that was at the meal they provided all the adults cooked and served.

There are 15 troops in my area, I emailed and called 5 of the Troops that were closest to us. Only these 2 returned my call and email. Both were well organized.

My son picked Troop 1 and I concurred with him. He liked the troop meeting and it was well organized even though they were not expecting us. My contact at the troop got sick that night but they still put on a great meeting. He didn't like Troop 2 because he felt he would get lost in the very big crowd and not get the right attention. I didn't care for the cost of Troop 2.

My son has some learning disabilities and Cub Scouts has helped overcome some of those issues. The success story I tell about him is how when he started archery in 2004 he couldn't hit the big target at 10 feet. With a bit of work he wound up being the top scoring Cub archer at CS Day Camp in 2005. Scoring was done at 30 feet. He was also Top Webelos BB Gun in 2006. In the meantime he was mainstreamed into regular math classes as he learned to focus. He also passed the mandatory state reading test with an above average score, which in early 2004 he was way below average.

The perfect troop doesn't exist and never will.

I can tell you that in our area we don't have enough of adult volunteers. The attidude from most of the parents is that "its Council problem, because we paid our $60 for the week of day camp". Council would not raise the rate or require minimum adult volunteers from Packs because it might affect revune.

This year no Webelos Day Camp week was scheduled. There will only be the single Cub Scout Day Camp.

Last year I ran a Webelos only day camp that focused on badges from the Webelos book and was only for Webelos to attend. The day was split into badge work, bb gun, archery, sports, craft work and water fun.

I was blessed to be able to get adult experts in Engineering, Science and Citizenship to came to camp and teach the kids. Bear in mind that these guys would not want to come to a cub scout event but because they would be talking to just the older cubs they came out to help. Its much easier to teach air pressure and electrical circuits to 4th and 5th graders than to 1st graders.

I was also able to get older crafts that required tools instead of glue.

The Webelos LOVED IT. There were no little kids that they had to be careful of and I was able to provide sports activities that were not normally done. They really felt grown up and I had very few discipline problems to deal with.

I also had 21 boy scouts that were a great bunch of Den Chiefs. When I had scheduled the days I arranged for blocks of time for the Troop members to do archery, BB Gun and water sports without the cubs. They never had that chance before at a Day Camp and even though it was a BB Gun and smaller bows they had a blast!

The boy scouts came in full uniform everyday and really impressed the kids with how they took care of there clothes. Some of the Webelos wanted to get the real green pants right away because of them.

At the end of camp I gave each kid a customized advancement sheet based on attendance just like Summer camp does.

The downside though was adult volunteer shortages. A few big packs in our area sent a lot of boys but no leaders to help. In our council we have to take anybody that pays the fee. So if a pack sent 15 boys and only 1 leader it was my problem to beg. The bigger packs also had the most boys missing a day or two but they awarded there kids all the badges anyway.

Council was also too busy to inspect me so I was not able to earn my Day Camp flag and Day Camp Director Shirt.

Every day I was short about two or three adults. They would commit and not come. In cases the adults were more trouble. The ones who came for just a day didn't like being separated from there kid.

The boy scouts had to step up to the plate and act in adult capacity and leverage knowledge from merit badges and such. They did a great job. Some of them only were going to work a day or two at first but when they saw the kids were so well behaved they decided to stay the week to work as a Den Chief.

The other blessing I was given is that I'm also a Webelos I Den Leader and the entire den signed up for the event. So when it was over the den already had 3 badges done and it was late June!

Can they earn Whittling Chip as a Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Webelos? Sure, the BSA books say so!! The popcorn and candy prizes even list a variety of knives.

Should they earn it as a Tiger/Wolf/Bear/Webelos? Thats another story all together. The approach we took in our Pack was that it wasn't listed until the Bear book gave guidance so the boys waited till then.

In our den, when they were Bears, we brought up the topic with just the parents and they decided what to do for each boy. In my own son's case it was about the start of 3rd grade that he was cutting his own meat at dinner.

A class was planned for a date in November, one other person from another den came. The class took two hours. The boys were not bored. The class I gave focused on SAFETY, how to control the blade and how to lose the card (not just a corner). For the boys the Chip was bigger than the Ranks they've earned. It has the same value to them as Arrow of Light.

Since then we have not had much need for a knife at a meeting.

Even camping we've not had much need for one.

When they made a Troop visit they learned that the Whittling Chip no longer counts and that they have to earn the Totin Chip at the Troop.

As a Den we went to a "Family Adventure" at the local council campground. The boys brought there knifes to make there own marshmallow and hotdog cooking sticks. Each boy had there whittling card with them and no one lost the card.

The scary thing: At the scout shop at the campground a Tiger dad from another pack was buying his son a 75th anniversary cub scout knife because the boy earned his 1st Tiger bead.

Our boys saw this and asked why they had to wait "for ever" when some 1st grader just gets one. We explained about being ready and having the motor skills to control it because its really safety training they got.

Later that day while waiting to do Archery the tiger kid was playing with the knife trying to cut grass blades. The dad wasn't paying attention. Our group moved away from him, but I did mention to the dad that a knife was not meant to cut grass blades. The kid managed to cut his finger and in the process when he cut himself the knife flew about 10 feet. No one else got hurt. He didn't hurt himself seriously, it was a small cut. BUT IT WAS A CUT.

Yesterday the boys (now Webelos II) were doing a craft. We had to drill holes. Following the G2SS I took a manual hand drill (really old fashioned). The new kid and his dad brought a heavy battery powered drill. I suggested he leave it in the car but the kids wanted the cool tool.

I explained it was too heavy and that controlling it was not easy for a 10 year old and for some adults as it was one of the new 36 volt models. They tried it out on a scrap piece of wood and realized I was right. They could not drill the correct holes with it. They went back to my old fashioned drill and made nice wood and leather crafts to give their Mom's for Valentines day. They were amazed that when I make cabinets I still use a 6 oz hammer instead of a big 24oz model. It was a lesson in the correct tool for the job and knowing how to use and control the tool.

It would be helpful if the Scout shop would provide more guidance when they sell knives!! Are they afraid they would sell less?

Two wrongs don't make a right. How often have we heard this. Remember that a Scout is Trustworthy.

Making the campout event into a family event just because a BALOO trained person is not available is not the right way and isn't what we should be teaching the kids. In addition, some families might think its OK to bring non-scouting items just because its a "family" event. A good lawyer could have a field day in court if someone gets hurt.

If the local Council doesn't offer the training then go to another council or get the syllabus to teach it to the unit.

In the District I'm in training is low cost. However, my unit thinks its a personal cost to go to training and this keeps a lot of our folks from getting trained. I go to training anyway because I learn a lot from it AND I'm helping my son.

I've been camping a long time and when I went to BALOO I learned some techniques that lightened the load of stuff I carry.

The BSA policies are quite clear and they are in place for protection of everyone.

If there is no BALOO trained person at the event for the duration of the event it can't occur or it has to end. The liability issues would then fall on the members of the unit if something occured.

A unit should always have 2 or 3 BALOO folks.

If training is not being offered at the Council level than folks in the unit need to go to Council, get the sylabbus and get approval to train it. Teaching stuff at the Council level isn't hard and it doesn't require that much extra work.

We did the tape measure appeal for a few years with OK results. Last year we used two Webelos II to hold the tape. We then had the Webelos mention a few of the things they learned, like doing skits, presenting advancement work, keeping the uniform hung up, doing conservation work and so forth. The response from the parents was much greater because the kids made an appeal for help to teach them.

Although I didn't earn Lion, my Webelos card from 1970 has a lion figure on it.

I think 1st graders are challenge in themselves, to then add Kindergarten to the crowd would bring on more issues. There would have to be a scaling down of pack and council events and the like.

Motor skills are not really developed at that age so how would the pinewood car be boy built?

The critter choice is not that clear either, you start as the "king of the jungle" and end as a bear. Perhaps they could called it the Foxes or someother small critter.

I understand that the GSUSA has a program for kindergarten girls. I'm sure that its not that easy.

Both my boys started as Wolves (one in 2003 and the other in 2004) and the program has been great for them.

I forgot to mention another way or making time to work on badges.

Sometimes at Pack events there is plenty of dead time. Our pack just had its PWD yesterday and check in closed at 9:30, but Webelos didn't race until Noon as the Tigers, then Wolves, then Bears raced first. Sometimes when there is that much dead time trouble can occur......

So I took my Patrol off to the side, worked on the Chess Loop and also the Scholar Badge. It took about 90 minutes or so. While we were doing something the other boys decided to tease and feed the egrets and other birds....

I see a lot of great suggestions here, but one thing I focused on was having the boys stand up and report on there own accomplishments related to activity badges, belt loops and pins. The goal was to get the parent to let go a little and let the boy step forward. This worked very well as four of the boys took to it well and 2 even kept separate notebooks.

I tried to teach knots, setting up tents and sleeping bags. They did OK on these things but because they didn't practice they would lose the skill. Setting up tents and bags was easy, but the folding part was tough.

We do have a rule that they were not allowed to play at a campout until everyone was all setup and the cars unloaded. The boys themselves were glad to hear this because in the past the parents didn't want the help because the parents thought they couldn't unload the vehicles better.

Our Webelos Den just did there first visit. I called the SM and let him know we were coming. Because I also have a district job I got to know the Troops well. I let the boys and parents know that when the Troop meeting started us parents were going to be brought into another classroom for an intro and the boys would be separated from us into the Patrol rooms with two adults in each room. One parent and son grumbled about it but showed up anyway.

The boys had a great time. 4 of them have selected that Troop, but I'm still making them visit one other.

My point is go for it anyway and have it be a "life lesson" for the shy cub. Even if the SM and SPL come over it won't help when "shy boy" sees big crowd. Have the other boys in the den stick very close to him. It won't help him if SPL or SM keeps him at there side. The Patrol method is about growing in the Troop. I've discovered that 99% of the boys in any Troop will go out of there way to help the newer kids.