Eamonn

Not that long back, I was chatting with a inmate in jail.

If memory serves me well? I seem to remember that he convicted of murder.

He was/is a nice enough fellow.

A real hard worker, even in jail.

He mentioned that he'd been a Boy Scout and had really enjoyed and learned from having been a Scout.

He came from a not very nice part of Philadelphia.

Raised by his Hispanic Mother and was hoping to get a transfer to the same jail as his brother was in.

Not long after I ran into a Lad I remembered from him being in a local Troop

He was /is a Eagle Scout.

I asked him what he was in for?

"Kid stuff - Stealing quads" He replied.

Just because!! I took the time to bring him up on my work computer.

His kid stuff, stealing quads entailed stealing almost 30 of them and reselling them!

He came from a very good family with good parents.

I spoke with him later and he said that he just loved riding quads!

But once he took one he didn't know how to return it, so he sold them!

I don't for a minute think that a great number of Scouts are going to end up serving time for murder.

Or that there are flocks of Eagles touring the entire country joy riding and stealing other peoples quads.

What is kinda strange both these guys were very popular with the other inmates and with the staff.

Both always seemed to be smiling and both did any work they were given to do.

I'd like to think that the good stuff they are known for has a little something to do with them being Scouts.

Ea.

Wow!!

I don't ever remember a thread going to ten pages as fast as this!

I did read the first six pages but that's as far as I got.

I think maybe it's time for me to admit that I was wrong when I said this would never happen in my life time.

This local option does seem to make a lot of sense.

Of course what happens next? - Is the $64k question.

My great hope is that this will act as a wake up call for many of our CO's. And they will take more of an interest in what's going on and who is signing up as adult leaders.

I'm not sure what happens when a Lad in a unit that doesn't allow gays comes out?

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

With this one issue out of the way, we can now return to talking about the evils of cell phones.

Ea.

Wow!!

I don't ever remember a thread going to ten pages as fast as this!

I did read the first six pages but that's as far as I got.

I think maybe it's time for me to admit that I was wrong when I said this would never happen in my life time.

This local option does seem to make a lot of sense.

Of course what happens next? - Is the $64k question.

My great hope is that this will act as a wake up call for many of our CO's. And they will take more of an interest in what's going on and who is signing up as adult leaders.

I'm not sure what happens when a Lad in a unit that doesn't allow gays comes out?

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

With this one issue out of the way, we can now return to talking about the evils of cell phones.

Ea.

Wow!!

I don't ever remember a thread going to ten pages as fast as this!

I did read the first six pages but that's as far as I got.

I think maybe it's time for me to admit that I was wrong when I said this would never happen in my life time.

This local option does seem to make a lot of sense.

Of course what happens next? - Is the $64k question.

My great hope is that this will act as a wake up call for many of our CO's. And they will take more of an interest in what's going on and who is signing up as adult leaders.

I'm not sure what happens when a Lad in a unit that doesn't allow gays comes out?

But we'll cross that bridge when we come to it.

With this one issue out of the way, we can now return to talking about the evils of cell phones.

Ea.

I don't know how the membership fees that are sent to the National Office are spent.

Still, even with the falling membership numbers, it seems to me that the BSA ought not be short of the odd dollar.

Add to this the other income from sales and magazines and the income that most volunteers don't know about or aren't aware of and I can't help feeling that the BSA is doing OK.

Often companies will support organizations in the area where they are located or have offices in.

The Council I serve receives hardly any money from grants,companies or the like.

The local United Way used to give us about $100,000 a year, but their board decided that they no longer were going to support organizations that had healthy endowment funds, opting to support organizations that really needed the money.

The Council next to us is a big Metro Council.

A lot of companies and Unions are headquartered there.

They receive a lot of cash from these.

In fact it's hard to walk around their Scout Reservation and not trip over a plaque informing you that so and so donated this or that.

Some companies will support groups that fall into specific groups, such as the arts or music.

All too often Scouts don't fall into these groups and more often than not the hoops and paperwork you need to jump through and submit are just a nightmare.

Having said that. I do firmly believe that SE's need to doing everything that they can to bring home more funding for the Council that they serve and ease up on just asking families and volunteers.

Like it or not many companies do not want to be seen as backing any organization that openly discriminates.

While of course I don't really know the thinking behind all this, but it does seem that the BSA knows and is aware of what's happening and seems OK with it all. This very well might be that the National Board is made up of people who support the policies of the BSA and don't want to see any changes made.

Without this support the BSA runs the risk of losing more members.

Kinda of a catch 22 situation.

The loss of corporate support really makes very little difference at the local level.

However when a company makes the headlines saying it is no longer supporting the BSA, it sometimes makes the parents of Scouts and future Scouts think if they want their kid in the organization.

Of course that track runs both ways.

I've met with parents who whole heartedly support the BSA and are willing to put their hand in their pocket to show their support.

This money most times is given at the Unit or local level.

So it might be said that locally Scouting does well when it loses corporate support.

Ea.

"On the other hand, they would have met the criteria if it had existed."

And the dog would have caught the rabbit if he hadn't stopped for a pee!

I don't really think any of this really matters.

But..

Without wishing to be unkind or in any way harsh.

I tend to think that you might have done these Lads a disservice.

Because it wasn't around at the time.

There is no way they could or might have earned this award.

Handing out unearned awards is never a good thing.

It makes the award meaningless and allows these Lads to fall into the frame of mind that they don't have to do anything to receive an award.

Here in the forum a fair number of members get a little hot under the collar about Troops that short change their youth members by allowing them to wear badges and awards that they really aren't entitled to wear.

While awarding a Perfect Attendance award that couldn't possibly be earned (Because it wasn't there.) Is not the end of the world.

It does allow these Scouts to think that everything will just be given to them.

I personally fail to see what harm might have been done if these Lads had not received the award?

Ea.

Ive heard that there is a group of Republicans meeting to look for reasons why they lost the election.

So far I haven't got any real hard info. About what reasons they have come up with.

I'm not a Republican. Maybe it's hard for me to push aside the fact that I don't agree with a lot of what they stand for? It's hard to be objective.

While I don't agree with them, I do of course respect them and respect that there are people who strongly believe in the party and what it stands for.

Over the past few decades I've started to believe that both parties have kinda drifted toward the middle of the road.

The republicans that are looking for reasons why they lost haven't invited me to sit in on any of their meetings. So I don't really know what they have come up with.

I guess they are looking at the African-Americans.

For a little while they (The Republicans.) Seemed to be doing a good job of ensuring that African-Americans had a seat at the table.

However running against a Black President? Must have looked like a no win situation.

Again I'm guessing that these guys are looking at ways so they come off seeming more attractive to the Hispanic and female voters.

This might mean taking a long hard look at what they say about immigration and womans rights.

The bottom line is that at the end of the day they want and maybe need to come off sounding more appealing to a lot more people.

At the risk of being way off base!

I can't help but think that the BSA faces many of the same problems as the Republican Party is facing.

They need to attract more voters and we need to attract more members.

I'm not sure how far either group is willing to go in order to get what they want?

Are the Republicans willing to push aside basic Republican principals in order to get votes?

Is the BSA willing to stand down on keeping God in the Oath?

Stand down on how it interprets Morally Straight?

What happens if groups don't bend?

Do we admire them for sticking with what they deem to be right?

Even if in the long run this might mean that they will die?

Or do we push them and help them change?

Eamonn.

Hi,

Sounds like you are a man with a plan.

Do take care not to allow the District to push you into anything that your not ready for.

The DE and maybe even the other members of the Key 3 might have a different agenda than you have.

Were I in your position, I think that I'd be looking to putting together an adult leadership team that works.

A team that is able to get along well and share a common goal.

While it seems like a no brainer!! It's worth remembering that the Lads you get to start are young and very new.

With this in mind there is a good chance that some of the stuff that's written in the good books might not work from the get go and might need to be something that's seen as a goal.

It might be a good idea to gather the adults together and sit and talk about goals.

Long term goals and short term goals.

This isn't something that is easy.

Bear in mind that you are only going to recruit half the number of Scouts that you think you will and that half of them will quit within 18 months.

It's a good idea from the get go to set high standards.

Parents will pay for what they see as being a quality program.

Buy the best quality equipment you can from the start.

If possible borrow stuff from other Troops or ask the Council to allow you to use the stuff they have packed away.

As for the best time?

Look at it from the Lads point of view.

My first camp (A very long time ago!!) Was Easter Camp back in the UK.

I remember being very cold at night and thinking that this wasn't very much fun.

The truth is that I didn't have the right equipment.

I think that I'd start sending out feelers now and try and get an feel for how much real interest there was.

Try and grab a friendly Webelos Den Leader who would be willing to come on board.

Start small with day hikes and doing activities on Saturday afternoons. - Things like lighting fires and cooking hot dogs, putting up tents. How to pack for a weekend camp or hike.

Sell Summer camp.

When the weather warms up a bit start with weekend camps and trips.

When it comes to numbers? Don't get disheartened!

If you only have six Scouts and three show up. You still have a fifty percent turnout!

Take the time to visit the Scout parents at their home, get to know them and allow them to get to know you. -Take my word for it, this pays off big time down the road.

If a Lad misses a meeting, don't let it go. Call him the next day and check that everything is good.

Done right these new Lads have seven years to do everything that is on offer.

Don't try and do it all in the first year.

Take your time. Build each activity on the last one.

These little fellows will grow, they will be looking for new challenges and new adventures. The skills that they master now will ensure that they are ready and able for these.

Making sure that the adult leadership team are all on the same page and are people who like to have fun and can laugh at themselves while supporting each other is vital.

Kids join Scouts to have fun, when what's on offer isn't fun, they quit.

I wish you the very best of luck.

Maybe if I was twenty years younger? I might be willing to take on the great challenge that your about to.

Eamonn.

While I understand global markets and the need for them.

I'm a very local type of fellow.

I can support efforts to change things half a world away.

But more often think that I stand a better chance helping or changing things locally.

We used to have a great small town bank. It had three branches all in local towns.

The family that owned the bank were part of and supported the community.

My Mother-In-Law served as Den Mother to the bank President.

They knew what was going on in the area and were very much involved in helping make things better.

Over time things changed.

First they went into a partnership with a bigger bank and then the bigger bank became part of a big bank based in New York.

While the local branches are still there and the people who work in them are locals, decisions all hail from New York.

I kept a few business accounts in our local bank, but because they were slow in offering an ATM card I switched to a fair sized bank for my personal accounts.

A few years back this bank upset me by charging me a silly fee and I got mad and closed my account.

Opting to go with a Credit Union.

Over time I moved all my accounts to the Credit Union.

I like the idea that my money is being used to help other Credit Union members and of course they aren't hitting me with silly fees.

This year it seems the Credit Union made more money than they expected and have sent ten million dollars back to their members.

My money is insured and I feel that it's safe.

For a very long time I've had a strong distrust for big banks and insurance companies, seeing them as a necessary evil.

My feeling is that these big banks get away with a lot of the stuff that they get away with because we let them.

For me? I'm done with them.

Ea.

OK, so I think that the NRA is way out of line.

But..

Could it be that the President went a little bit too far having all the children act as a backdrop when he made his televised announcement?

Years back I didn't have a security system on my home.

The truth is that there wasn't that much worth taking and I wasn't able to afford it.

While there really isn't that much worth taking today.

Some people might think because I live where I do and the house is a nice house that maybe they will get lucky.

Hence the need for the system . (That and I'd hate anyone to harm my "Watchdogs"!)

Back when my son was a little fellow I'm guessing that any local kidnapper might have guessed that kidnapping him wasn't worth the time as I didn't have that much money and no power to change very much.

I don't think the same can be said for the President.

There are a lot of nuts who might think that by taking one of his kids that would empower him to change the world.

Ea.

I know a fair number of people who have got divorced.

Some who were and some who still are volunteers in Scouting.

Nearly all the people I know well are men.

So of course I'm only hearing one side of things.

While many of these guys say that their wife blames the time spent Scouting and away from the home as the reason for the split.

I tend to think that there is more to the story than what's being told.

Some try and make it sound like this is the start of a new adventure and they are thankful to at long last be free from the shackles of being married.

If that were really true? I don't understand why so many get re-married.

Ea.

I know a fair number of people who have got divorced.

Some who were and some who still are volunteers in Scouting.

Nearly all the people I know well are men.

So of course I'm only hearing one side of things.

While many of these guys say that their wife blames the time spent Scouting and away from the home as the reason for the split.

I tend to think that there is more to the story than what's being told.

Some try and make it sound like this is the start of a new adventure and they are thankful to at long last be free from the shackles of being married.

If that were really true? I don't understand why so many get re-married.

Ea.

I spend a lot of years serving as a District Key 3 member.

Over the years I received a fair number of reports of things that Scouts had done and things that they had got into.

There were times when I felt the urge to rush in on my big white horse, sort things out and save the day.

I of course resisted the urge.

Why?

Because much as I might have wanted too sort things out, this really wasn't up to me.

I didn't know the Scouts involved, I didn't know what the CO wanted to do, I didn't know what the Troop Committee might want to do.

I did of course make myself available to offer advise when asked for and needed and I ensured that the Council (SE) Was aware of the facts as I knew them.

Clearly my role as a District Commish or a District Chair. Is very different than that of a SM or Troop Committee chair or Committee Member.

If the SM in this situation were to ask me for advise.

I'd want to know a lot more than what has been posted here.

I'd like to know a lot more about the Lad who pulled the knife.

What sort of Lad is he?

Is he a Lad that is normally a good Scout?

Is he a Lad that was brought into the Troop because he had a history of being in trouble?

What about what led up to the food fight?

I might want to know why someone said : " #3's father is involved in troop, but if we lost him it wouldn't hurt."?

Only because it seems a strange thing to say.

It is way to easy for me to sit here at my keyboard and say "Off with his head!!"

But the truth is that I don't have all the details.

Re: " If this had happened in the local McDonald's you would have called the police, why is this different?"

We as volunteer Scout Leaders are in the business of helping Scouts learn to make ethical decisions, fast food restaurants are not.

Scouts can and sometimes do learn from past mistakes.

It would be up to the Troop Committee to decide if this Lad is going to be allowed to continue on as a Scout and learn from this mistake.

While I'm very much for law and order. I don't think in this case that I'd advise the SM to call the police.

If the parents of the Lad who was threatened want to involve the police? That is of course up to them and they are free to do so.

While I'm not a judge or involved with that area of the law. My guess is that here in Pa. the Lad would more than lightly get a fine and little more.

My own personal feeling is that this doesn't teach the Lad very much.

My advise to ramblinrosey?

As District Commissioner, you need to take a step back.

Allow the Troop Committee and the Scout Masters to sort this out.

Talk with the other members of the Key 3.

Have the DE update his boss about what's going on and work with the CO and COR.

Be there to advise and support the Troop Leaders.

Be very careful about expressing your opinions. The Troop Committee is going to do what they see as being right.

If you have made a point of saying what you think is right and it is different than what they come up with?

You are going to have a hard time ever again been seen as a friend of the unit.

If you get too close you might be unlucky enough to find that some Committee Members are a little like myself and want to work with the Lad who pulled the knife and you saying "Out". Does nothing for your creditability.

Where is the unit Commissioner? What is he or she doing?

Ea.

Have to admit to not liking or watching the show. So, I missed this one.

Here in the area where I live most comments about Scouting and Boy Scouts tend to be on the positive side.

Many people who were Scouts look back and seem thankful for having been Scouts and many feel that Scouts and Scouting does good.

Eamonn.(This message has been edited by Eamonn)

Beavah is right on the money when he says this isn't your call.

What happened and what happens next is up to the Troop.

Ea.

One of my favorite TV shows is Jeopardy.

I'm sometimes amazed that when it goes in re-run, I get the same things wrong as I did the first time I seen it.

I suppose that either I'm just very dumb? Or there has to be some reason why even after receiving the right answer I still continue to not get it right.

When it comes to prejudice?

This is a tough one.

I go along with the idea that adding diversity makes us better.

The idea of people coming from different backgrounds, different cultures and having different ideas and view points working toward a common goal. Is a good thing.

I sometimes get a little confused that while accepting that diversity is good.

Pointing out what makes us different is often seen as being harmful.

Challenge is a good thing.

Having someone challenge my ideas and my opinions is good.

Good because in defending my ideas and opinions I'm forced to think about them and get the little gray cells working.

While the person who is challenging my ideas and my opinions more than lightly knows that the chances of him making me change is very small.

The opportunity to examine and take a hard look at these thoughts is worthwhile.

Many years back I used to teach history. (English History.)

The text we were teaching from were very one sided.

Rarely if ever was it stated that the English were ever wrong and bits that didn't show the English in a good light were never dwell-ed upon.

I think that it's kinda of strange that I'm willing to discuss and defend my views on politics but when it comes to my religion and my idea of God. - That becomes an area where I'm a lot less comfortable.

Over the years as I've aged I think or like to think? That I'm far less judgmental than I used to be.

In the past when someone failed to agree with me, I not only seen them as being wrong but added that they were "Something" for being wrong.

Today while I might still see them as being wrong, I'm not as fast to add any kind of a label.

Ea

Pope?

Have to admit to having never thought of that one.

Thanks.

Ea.

To the best of my knowledge the BSA doesn't have ownership of any First Aid courses.

They do recognize courses from organizations like the Red Cross or the American Heart Association.

For some reason the State (Pa.) Uses the courses provided by ASHI (American Safety and Health Institute)

http://www.hsi.com/about-hsi/our-brands/ashi/

I think maybe because their services are cheaper than anyone else!

I'm not sure why? But the state sent me to become a Wilderness First Aid Instructor.

Being as the DOC has its own Training Center it really wasn't that big a deal.

One of the instructors when I took the course was involved in Scouting.

I'm not sure what Council? But it was out near Harrisburg.

He said that the He had set up the Council as a ASHI approved training center.

You might want to have a look at the link and see if anything they have to offer might work for your pal.

It seems that some Councils are allowing these courses in place of the Red Cross or AHA courses.

I'm not sure how this might work?

I don't know if local Councils are really allowed to do this or not?

Ea.

This part of the course can work and can go over in such a way that it adds to the course.

I'm not a great fan of it mainly because I've been on staff on a course where it wasn't presented well and a lot of people had their feelings hurt and got upset.

I think just knowing that this can happen should make taking a long hard look at the game a no brainier.

There really isn't time at the Course Directors Conference to go over the game and look at ways of ensuring that people don't get upset.

I was very lucky in that I'd seen it go about as bad as it gets before I became a CD.

As JFL49 pointed out the game is played at a time when people are tired and might very well be feeling the stress after a long day.

The more I read and studied the course syllabus, the more it became clear that nothing in the course was there by accident.

The game is there for a reason.

When it came to the delivery, I chose a very experienced and well respected staff member to be in charge. The fact that he was in his day job a Lutheran Minister was a bonus!

Around the room (It was an outdoor pavilion) We placed flip charts with the Scout Oath and Law written in big letters.

At the end of the game we had everyone stand up and recite the Oath and Law.

The plan was that had things got a little too heated. We would have the Oath and Law come into play earlier as a type of time out.

As it was we didn't feel the need.

Re:

"...As a woman I also found some often good ole boy mentality in it a little offensive. I would suggest that course directors need to realize women who sign up for WB aren't usually the shrinking violet types, heck most of us have had babies and not afraid of some dirt and hard work. "

Momleader

Of course I wasn't at your course.

Over the years I have been on staff for a lot of courses.

At the old Boy Scout course we had very few woman attend.

In the Council I serve we don't have any female SM's and very few active female ASM's.

Most of the females that attend WB in our area tend to serve at the District, Council or Cub Scout level.

Rightly or wrongly, old timers like myself think that females don't have the same camping and outdoor experience that some (Not all.) Of the males might have.

Some of our camps are not always that female friendly when it comes to facilities.

Some of the males are even less female friendly.

Still as a CD, when it came to accommodating female participants.

I tried to ensure that no one would be alone in a tent and that I had where possible the same number of females in each Patrol.

After that? They were very much on their own.

What happened in their Patrols, what they were expected or allowed to do? Was very much up to them and the other members of the Patrol.

I kinda think that them not being "the shrinking violet types".

They are very capable of standing their ground and telling their patrol what they like and don't like.

Still don't ask me not to hold a door open for you.

Don't ask me to not allow you to go ahead of me in line.

Because it ain't going to happen. - You would have to reprogram 57 years of manners.

Ea.

This part of the course can work and can go over in such a way that it adds to the course.

I'm not a great fan of it mainly because I've been on staff on a course where it wasn't presented well and a lot of people had their feelings hurt and got upset.

I think just knowing that this can happen should make taking a long hard look at the game a no brainier.

There really isn't time at the Course Directors Conference to go over the game and look at ways of ensuring that people don't get upset.

I was very lucky in that I'd seen it go about as bad as it gets before I became a CD.

As JFL49 pointed out the game is played at a time when people are tired and might very well be feeling the stress after a long day.

The more I read and studied the course syllabus, the more it became clear that nothing in the course was there by accident.

The game is there for a reason.

When it came to the delivery, I chose a very experienced and well respected staff member to be in charge. The fact that he was in his day job a Lutheran Minister was a bonus!

Around the room (It was an outdoor pavilion) We placed flip charts with the Scout Oath and Law written in big letters.

At the end of the game we had everyone stand up and recite the Oath and Law.

The plan was that had things got a little too heated. We would have the Oath and Law come into play earlier as a type of time out.

As it was we didn't feel the need.

Re:

"...As a woman I also found some often good ole boy mentality in it a little offensive. I would suggest that course directors need to realize women who sign up for WB aren't usually the shrinking violet types, heck most of us have had babies and not afraid of some dirt and hard work. "

Momleader

Of course I wasn't at your course.

Over the years I have been on staff for a lot of courses.

At the old Boy Scout course we had very few woman attend.

In the Council I serve we don't have any female SM's and very few active female ASM's.

Most of the females that attend WB in our area tend to serve at the District, Council or Cub Scout level.

Rightly or wrongly, old timers like myself think that females don't have the same camping and outdoor experience that some (Not all.) Of the males might have.

Some of our camps are not always that female friendly when it comes to facilities.

Some of the males are even less female friendly.

Still as a CD, when it came to accommodating female participants.

I tried to ensure that no one would be alone in a tent and that I had where possible the same number of females in each Patrol.

After that? They were very much on their own.

What happened in their Patrols, what they were expected or allowed to do? Was very much up to them and the other members of the Patrol.

I kinda think that them not being "the shrinking violet types".

They are very capable of standing their ground and telling their patrol what they like and don't like.

Still don't ask me not to hold a door open for you.

Don't ask me to not allow you to go ahead of me in line.

Because it ain't going to happen. - You would have to reprogram 57 years of manners.

Ea.

Have just looked over the Queens New Year Honor list.

Seems that I'm not going to be Sir Eamonn.

At least not this year. - There is of course the Birthday list.

While the list this year seems to more all about the Olympics, I noticed as I was speeding through some guy who is a Master Rope Maker. He got an award for Services to rope making.

I'd never heard of a Master Rope Maker before.

Love to meet this guy.

I'll bet he is an interesting fellow.

As I didn't get a knighthood, think I'll hold out for making it as a Peer.

Lord Eamonn has a better ring to it than Sir Eamonn.

Ea.

Hi Skip,

Back in the day, I remember the joy of finding a Bucket Shop in London and booking a last minute trip for next to nothing.

Today here in the US, everything is done on the web.

I live about a 45 minute drive from downtown Pittsburgh, about an hour from the airport.

We have a small regional airport. Arnold Palmer Regional in Latrobe PA. About a 15 min drive for me.

Used to be that I could book a flight from Latrobe to Pittsburgh.

The advantages were that I avoided the drive to Pittsburgh (Always a pain). There were no lines and the parking is free.

The cons were that it cost almost as much to fly from Latrobe to Pittsburgh as it did from Pittsburgh to New York.

There were very few flights which meant if the connections didn't mesh you were stuck.

It now seems that there are no flights to Pittsburgh.

The airport has become home for Spirit Airlines which offers cheap flights to a very limited number of places.

I've never used their services. Friends of mine who have homes in Florida use them a lot. They have taken the time and understand how to get the best deals.

When I looked at how to book a flight I was overwhelmed with everything being an extra.

However if I really wanted to go and save a lot of money?

I'm sure I could work it out.

I don't think I know of a budget airline that offers international flights.

Maybe you might want to think about getting the cheap flight from the UK to the USA and then renting a big car?

I have cousins in Toronto and can drive there in about six and a half hours.

Sometimes when looking for cheap flights home, it is cheaper for me to fly out from Toronto.

I know that Martin Gerrard has brought a group of Venture Scouts over from England to Canada a few times. The group was a lot bigger and if I remember right he rented a school bus. -You might want to drop him a line?

Good Luck,

Eamonn.

I have no idea how many people here in PA have guns.

I spent most of last week with a group of guys who belong to one of our DOC Specialist teams (Our own SWAT type team, Hostage Rescue team or sniper team. - I was the only member of our Hostage Negotiation team!)

These guys, most are ex-military know guns and I trust them. In part because they stand behind me at times when I trying to talk someone down and I don't have a lot of choice in the matter.

We were out near Harrisburg PA.

A lot of the guys made it a point when we got out early, to rush to Atlantic Tactical a store that sells all sorts of tactical equipment, uniforms and of course guns.

I'm not sure if anyone bought any guns or not.

Most of the guys returned saying how expensive everything was.

A few said that they had looked at some rifles including the Bushmaster M4A3 14.5" Barrel Carbine.

The store only had a few left in stock and it seems that the salesman was pushing really hard to make a sale. Telling them that come the new year these would no longer be available.

I'm not sure why anyone might need such a gun.

Here in PA, I've only had to deal with the odd deer, raccoon and one bear.

Maybe they know something I don't?

Ea.

Not in any way trying to hijack the Thread.

But..

I haven't taken the time to look back at my old postings.

I do however think that over the past few years, I'm not a mule headed as I used to be.

I'm not saying that I was wrong! Lord forbid me to ever admit such a thing!!

I'm just more accepting than I once was.

While we can all advise and chat away here in the Forum.

If the truth be known. When it comes to Patrols, Patrol size and what age the Scouts in the Patrols are?

We work with the Scouts we have.

Some Troops have for one reason or another older Lads, while the Troop down the road might well have younger Scouts.

My big fear of having age based Patrols is that if they manage to retain a lot of older Scouts, these older Lads scare the younger Lads away.

I found that me not seeing myself as the keystone but more of a Stewart helped me a lot.

While trying to ensure that each and every Scout gets the program he deserves is very important.

As a Stewart I'm also focused on the Troop as a whole and where it will be five years and maybe even ten years down the road.

Some adults seem to think that "Boy Led" is "Hands Off".

This is rarely true.

The first big hurdle is having the adults understand what it means for a group (Patrol or Troop) To lead themselves.

The next is for the Scouts to come to grips with it.

Some of this will be determined by the history of what has happened in the past and the Troop culture.

There are times when things go wrong.

The adult knows that things are not going right.

A lot of the time there will be some kind of a consequence when things don't go well.

Depending on what the consequence is?

The adult might very well allow whatever it is to play out.

Not rush in and try and fix it. (This can be very hard for a lot of adults.)

There is however no point in doing things this way if there is no follow up.

No!! I'm not talking about moaning and carrying on about how they messed up.

Chances are they will have worked out this already.

I really like using reflections so as they not only see where they went wrong but also look for what they could have done so as not to mess up.

Sometimes just having an adult around, one who can just be there and keep his trap shut! Will make this work and not become a group of Lads blaming each other.

Ea.

There seems to be a lot going on here!!

I'm very much OK with there being different courses for different horses.

While of course my ego isn't ever going to allow me to say that what I've been doing is wrong.

Still if someone finds something that works for them?

Then not going with it, might seem kinda daffy.

I'm not in favor of age based Patrols.

In part because I never used the idea.

I also tend to think that this isn't the way it ought to work.

I'd never seen or heard of age based Patrols or New Scout Patrols before coming to the States.

Back in the UK, when I was a Lad and later when I was SM (Scout Leader.)

Little fellows moved from the Pack to the Troop on their birthday or as close to their birthday as possible.

For a month or so ahead of time they had visited the Troop and got to know their way around.

The PLC met and discussed which Patrol they would join.

Lads who joined from the street. (Not from the Pack) As a rule hung out with their friends or the person who brought them for a few weeks then moved to a Patrol, again this was something that the PLC had agreed on.

This seemed to work well. Mainly because there wasn't a big number of New Scouts all joining at the same time. (No big Cross Over in February.)

When I was a Scout, the Troop I was in stayed very much about the same size. About 36 or so Scouts.

Patrols were Patrols of about six and there were six Patrols.

Chances were that if you joined a Patrol that would be the Patrol you remained with.

This is kinda unusual.

Troops as a rule, go through Peaks and Valleys.

Either new Patrols are being formed or Patrols are being down sized because the Troop is becoming smaller.

I like the idea that the older Scouts take the younger Scouts under their wing and look after them.

This happens a lot better when the little Lad is a member of the same Patrol as the older Lad.

Mixed age Patrols, where the Patrols are about even allows for inter Patrol competition.

A big mistake I have seen both here and in the UK, is that many (Not all.) Adults seem to not to be able to look down the road.

While many of us at some time or another have things just where we think they should be.

A great group of Scouts, who get along well and work together well.

We forget that the most important person for the future of the Troop is that new little fellow that we really don't know that well.

I've also seen it where the adults are so busy catering for the older Lads that younger Lads just feel welcome and leave.

My son was a Scout in a Troop with same aged Patrols.

The year he crossed over the Troop got 16 new Scouts.

These new Scouts made up almost half of the Troop.

They became two Patrols.

By the following December, there were only 13 of these new Scouts.

They remained as two Patrols.

By the time he was 13 the two Patrols became one Patrol.

He attended almost every Troop meeting and event until he was about 15.

Then he got involved in sports and school plays.

There had been several New Scout Patrols join over the years. Each time they seemed to account for about 50% of the Troop size.

As SPL he did his best to look after these "Little Kids". - But other than that? He wanted no part of them, mainly because he didn't know them that well and he had no need to.

By the time he was 16 and had his driving license. He had for the most part out-grown what the Troop had to offer.

Him and a the few older Scouts that were still around were herded into an "Eagle Patrol"

These older Scouts, tended to just visit the Troop if and when they had the time and nothing better to do.

They didn't participate in the Camp outs.

Most worked at the Summer Camp, so they didn't camp with the Troop.

I don't know if having them not be part of the Troop was a good thing or a bad thing?

I'm not sure if they had mixed aged Patrols if they might have felt that they were needed?

I do know that had it not been for the OA my kid would have quit.

With so many Troops seeing a large number of little fellows crossing over each year.

I do see that keeping them together as a group can make sense.

But ...

For me the Patrol is very much about older Scouts leading and taking care of the members of their Patrol.

To this day I remember how much I looked up to my first P/L.

I never remember looking at the younger Lads in my Patrol (When I was a P/L) As being "The little kids." - They were first and foremost Patrol Members.

I wanted them to do well as when they did it made me and my Patrol look good.

Ea.