Eagle_23

I think the biggest argument coming from national is that the Boy Scout Division is from 11 through 18, while the Venturing Division is 14 through 21. While this would be a good enough reason to drop the issue, The OA allows members to be youth until 21. doesn't make a lot of sense to not allow venturing into the OA when they age out at the same age. specially when by the time the venturing meets the requirements ( whatever they may be) they could easily be 16 or 17 years old.

Another big argument is that youth protection dosnt cover females in the OA, But I am pretty sure that there is a venturing specific YP manual that would cover it.

What about requirements, Ventuers cant earn 1st Class. True, but they do have the bronze awards, or whatever they become anyways. And sea scouts have the Able rank. who's to say that ventuers cant meet that certain rank requirement along with the necessary campouts. What about campout requirement? Some crews don't camp, Sea scouts go sailing. Sea scouts could meet that requirement with overnight voyages and a long term cruise.

What it would really come down to is, the youth in the crews and ships would need to make the changes to their program to meet the requirements set forth for membership. Some crews are art crews, they don't camp. So if they want to be eligible for membership. the youth would need to plan what would need to happen to be eligible for membership.

What would need to happen would be movements on both the venturing front, and the OA front, starting at the section conclaves, and likewise venturing events, as simple as a poster. Pushing for youth members to start making waves to the higher-ups pushing the issue. is the Region chiefs start brining the subject up as the ventuers do the same. Maybe it will become an issue the national committee will look at.

As a CBM Camp staff alumni. I have been givin the oppertunity to see some of the inner politics being kept from the public.

1) First and formost, what is happening is less of matter of finacial stability, and more of an issue of inner politics. Our current council president has been quietly working to get the camp to this point since he took office. By systimaticly guiding the executive board to different dicisions to hurt the camp numbers. Over the last few months he has been quietly lobbying for the Council Board to make the desicion to close.

2) The Friends of Black Mountain, the group that is working to find a stable plan for the camp future raised the 64K to meet the financial goal. By the end of year deadline, we had 251 kids signed up. in that very next week an additnal 20 kids were registered. A number of units where waiting to see what the future of the camp would be before regiestering there kids. Because it took 5 days after the deadline for the council to annouce any desicion and then another week or finalize it. a number of units showed interest in registering. We also had a donor offering up 50 scholorships for campers. and provisinals had yet to start registering.

3) A large issue facing the camp is a council mindset that the summer camp season needs to pay every bill of the camp for the entire year. to everyone else in the council it seems very stupid to budget this way. when you account for ranger salaries and untilities bills, while factoring in that the council only offers 3 weeks of camp each summer, no way they camp can break even on that schedual with just the summer season. To make up that difference, you look to off season rentals. Filling up the weekends in the off season raises another issue because:

4) There are members of the office staff who will turn away possible renters of the facility. Groups will call to reserve portions of the camp only to be told that the camp is booked through the end of whatever month they are calling. Yet when the weekend or month comes, the camp sits empty.

5) There have been multipul instances where units would register for the summer at CBM, then in the months or weeks before camp starts, they would be called by the council office asking if they would like to change there reservation to fire mtn in stead.

From september through Decemeber of last year there were a number of town hall meeting hosted by the council and the head of the study committee presented around the council. I had the opertunity attend a number of them. when the issues of the council turning away potential rentals and trying to move units from one camp to another, any professinal in the room would throw a particualy large temper tantrum and claim that office staff would never do that. But when you have different people at different meetings, who have never met, saying the exact same thing. you would think the council would see there is somthing going on.

The closure of CBM is somthing that has been pushed for a while. especialy in this adminastration. there is a deadline for spring for a final disposition of the camp to be decided. this coincised with the rumored retirement of the Scout Executive and Council President. They are tyring to push this all through before they retire to make sure their succsesors dont go back and bring the camp back.

I voulenteer at Camp Black Mountain in the pacific northwest. There was talk to shutting down and selling the camp, but sainer minds prevailed and the council decided to look into other ways to unitlize the property. If supporters of the camp meet certain requierments, the council will even let us have summer camp for the 2013 year.

Voulenteers of the camp formed a booster club, adamant on keeping the camp open.

Who has ever been to CBM? I am sure there people here who live in the area who have been to the camp at one point or another. What did you like, what would you change?

The last thread brought up a pretty heated discussion about the use of native american modeling in their ceremonies. I know it wasnt always like that. I have heard that before that, there was the use of black robes as ceremonial regalia. There isnt much about that out there that I have found. If anyone has any information on what went into making that regalia and what that regalia consisted of i would love to hear about it.

But the big question of this thread is this: Does the Order of the Arrow need to find some new form of regalia in our ceremonies, anf if so, what would you recomend. Should we go back to what was used in the past, should we try somthing totally different or should things stay the same?

I was thinking today about the ceremonies in the OA. Beyond the Induction sequence there are other ceremonies used. I'm wondering if anyone has seen ceremonies used for anything outside of the norm. Not nesessarily inappropriate uses, just outside the norm?

I work at a summer camp with a lot to offer. It has plenty of area with a lot of potential. Good facilitys. It always has a good staff. plenty of space to offer a variaty of merit badges. as well as a number of other programs, including cope and mountain biking. the staff that works the camp, is highly motivated and very skilled.

It is in a location with a lot to offer in the direction of high adventure as well, being next to rivers to rafting. in the mountains for some great hiking. close to the water for boating. It dosnt have a high adventure program, but the potental is there.

But despite its location and everything it can offer, the attendance numbers arnt there. of course this is from a lack of quality program. there isnt an argument about that.

So i bring the question to the internet. what features would make for a quality program at a summer camp. everything from variaty of program offered to merit badges.

KC9DDI: The ASM spoke to the Chapter Advisor. Turns out the CA has first hand knowlege of this scout being a bully. to in short everything worked out and the election is valid.

I was doing an OA unit election this evening and everything went well till i got a call on thw way honme from an ASM (not the SM or the parent) asking about the results. after sharing that the election was solid he told me of his concerns about that a scout wasnt elected. he called is "heart breaking" that the scout has been passed over multipule times. He then asked if there was somthing we could do to change the election, weather it was do another election or somthing else.

I'm at a loss. i know how this is going to be handeled and thsi isnt a thread about OA or OA elections. What really bothers me now is the attitude from the troop the everyone is a winner. Personaly i belive its not the way to look at scouting because its simply not true. What are some other opinions or storys facing the idea the "everyone is a winner".

I dissagree. We are contributing our time and skills/recources to the program to benifet the scouts. There might not be a tangible result but it is there. What would the value of the contribution of time and everything be?

After reading some of the responses to the thread this is spun from, lets ask this question. Not counting money given in FOS, not counting items purchased for events not reimbursed by the unit or council or somthing.

What is a value of the time givin by voulenteers. If one was able to put a price tag on their services. What would that amount be?

A couple friends and I are thinking about getting tatoos (well one just got one, but still) Basicly we all met at the scout camp we work at. And all three of us just about live and work there, so we are thinking about all getting the camp logo.

Awesome, thanks, that is exactly what i'm looking for. is there any information anywhere about what lodge's they belonged to?

I am looking for some help on a project i'm working on, I am looking for information on the history aroung the OA national chiefs, like when the first one was stuff like that. If there is a place on the internet that has a list of all the national chief and the lodges they belonged to it would be awesome. also if they have information on when lodges started making patches for lodge chiefs.

any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks in advance

Be prepared, because things are going to change. BDPT00 is right, the best thing to do is to make a new lodge with totally new symbols. Definetly have the youth lead the discussions. Lay out each lodge's customs and program at the beginning and maybe they can keep somthing from each.

The lodge i'm in is the result of a merger between two lodges about 15 years ago (admittedly around the time i joined cub scouts, but i have heard alot of horror stories about it) . there were alot of hurt feelings going into the merger anyways but there were alot more after. alot of the oa presence in what was one of the lodges completely dissapeared. from what i heard it was a messy process and they lost alot of good scouts and scouters.

So every be sensitive and play nice.

Seems to me that if a venture decided it wanted elections, it would be up to the crew to make themselvs elgible for them. The example i'm going to use is the hs band crews.

Say out there, there is a crew based around a high school marching band (i do hope i'm interpreting that right). Obviosly thats what they do, out doors isnt really part of their program. why would it, their focus is music and marching. but say you have a venturer or two who decides they want to be in the OA. Its up to them to find the requierments and change their program. In this case they would have to sell the crew and then add the camping element to their program. Not every member of the crew nesessarlly has to to the bronze. but they would have to buy into the camping.

If the crew takes it upon its self to make the changes they need to do elections, why not. If they dont want to make the changes to do it, then its their call.

What are some skills you would like the scouts in your troops to learn. Beyond scout craft.

For me it would be some minor skills like sewing, ironing cloths. Little things that would be good for them to learn or skills they would have to learn eventually.

Lately there has been alot of topics made about, greivnces with the order, problems with arrowmen and the like. I think it is clear to everyone that the order is but a shadow of its former self. Membership is declining, it seems like the integrity of the order as a whole is in a free fall. not just here or there either, but all over the country.

So the question is, what needs to happen to make the Order of the Arrow more than just a patch on the uniform and a sash that is only worn once or twice. What needs to happen. From the very top of the national level, down to the individual chapters to make to improve the order. What changes need to happen to solve the issues we are facing.

This is a chance to discuss everything. From the way unit elections are done to the the high advanture programs are promoted. Everything to elangomats to the medium the order uses (the native american styled ceremonies) to the type of regailia used. Maybe not anything that is safeguarded, because well, this is the internet.

What works, what does not work, and what needs to change.

Hey everyone. I am thinking about makeing a proposal to my troops COR abotu chartering a venturing crew. But I know the question that is going to be asked. " What can the venturing crew do that the troop cant?"

My question is if I were wanting to make a venture crew based around the outdoors, what would the venture crew be able to do that the troop does not. the troop does alot of hikeing and does and ocasional river rafting trip.

Thanks all,

Eagle_23

I was talking with someone who has a pair os the polyester scout pants. The ones with no extra pockets meant for professinals. he was saying that you cant wear the current style web belt with those pants. but they dont sell any of the olderstyle with the gold buckle that would fit the belt loops.

Is it true that the new web belts dont fit those pants. and if not what are the alternetives?

So I was thinking tonight about the different age limits that BSA has for the different ends of its program. Boy Scouts: 18 Venturing/OA: 21 etc.

My question is how do the different age limits effect the ideas and roles of the scouts nearing or inbetween those limits?

In my own example i'm 20, I'm an ASM with my troop, but i am also my districts chapter chief. And sometime it feels to me like i am still relating to the youth as though i am still a scout, even though i aged out 3 years ago.

has any one seen this issue or have an idea about it.

In the wake of a couple impending Broken Arrow Ceremonies, it got me thinking about the way they are done and how the ceremonies are set up. When and where do other lodges hold Broken Arrow ceremonies and what type of regalia do other lodges use?

Well i am not currently nor was i ever involved in the sea scouts. i thought about it for a while but never actually did it. but i am thinking about starting up a ship in a couple of years and am just trying to get some background information.

Now i have a somewhat related question. what do we do about uniform recognition. ventures can sinply wear lodge flaps. but what about sea scouts with their dress uniforms. that cant wear lodge flaps or sashes with them. what would we do as uniform peices for them?

There isnt alot of information about this on the net. and the Sea Scout Website dosnt really provide much information. but what is the standard uniform for sea scouts in sea scout ships. any information would be appreceated. also if anyone has any links. it would be more than helpful.

thanks alot.

with cub scouts it would be about maturity. there are some rather "complicated" values based around the OA, like the meaning of the admonition and the meanting of the obligation and such. A Cub Scout just would not be able understand the true meaning of the Ordeal ceremonies or other "values" of the order.