eaglescout1996

If you council is only charging $1000 to attend as a participant, then the "extra" $150 you are paying would pay for transportation, insurance, (most likely) Jambo Troop t-shirts, council strips and numbers, patrol patches, and whatever other small items they would provide.

The Scouters I've spoken thought AC5 was "better" run/organized. As I said before, I did not attend AC5, so I can not compare.

The OA is doing wonderful things this summer. Things like this, OA Trail Crew, NCLS, and Indian Summer weren't around when I was a youth 15+ years ago. If they had, I would have been WAY more active as an Arrowman as I got later in my youth. My lodge was very political and National programs would have kept my attention!

I just realized the links don't work, if you click on them, you can figure out what you need to do in bar on you browser.

Sorry!

I attended week 2 with 9 other members of my lodge, we got back Saturday night and I just haven't got around to creating a post.

Week 2 completed close to 30,000 feet of trail that week, plus other projects for the NPS around their headquarters and Thurmond Train Depot.

The first three full days we were there (Mon-Wed) were HOT. Even those of us from the deep south were not expecting that type of weather in WV. The Park Service staff said that those were the hottest days of the year so far. By Friday, temps were more "normal" for WV standards, high of low 80's, low of upper 50's. High humidity as well...there were many Arrowmen from the South, which is what we are used to, but those from out west were feeling it.

Every morning the crews were on the buses and out of the Armory by 7am, back to camp around 4-4:30p. Philmont meals for breakfast and lunch, and the cook staff (who did a wonderful job) had hot supper at 5:15p for dinner A and 6:00p for dinner B. Opening show on Sunday, Ice Cream social/talent show/concert on Wednesday. Showers were trailers brought in, with porta-johns lined up around camp. The week 2 patch auction brought in a little over $4000, which went to two local charities.

Friday was our "fun" day, most went white water rafting down the New River, about a dozen went climbing, a dozen went mountain biking, and about two dozen did a canopy tour. There were so many Arrowmen rafting that about three or four outfitters were used. The New was a fun 3-4 hour trip, a bit of flat water that allowed us to get out and swim/float down the River. Plus there were about 4 Class IV's and one Class V, with some Class II's and III's thrown in. After the trip, they took everyone to one of the outfitters for lunch, where we had an lunch buffet and watched the videos of our trip. After that, they bused everyone to another outfitter who had a lake with a bunch of water toys (zipline, blob, slides, water trampoline, ect). Everyone chilled for a bit, had dinner (pig roast), and then went back for the closing show.

There are lots of outfitters in that area of the country, which many were suprised.

For the main rafting outfitter and the zip line, plus lunch, we used Class VI

The lake front and dinner was provided by Ace Raft

The contingents members received a patch (which was spelled SummitCorps Mermber), SummitCorps carabiner, a certificate, SummitCorps Coin, and a BSA/NPS patch. The weekly program was on the Evolution of a Leader, which was done well and I know our boys thought it was thought provoking.

I did not attend AC5, but one of the other adults who was on staff at a couple of sites and attended another as a participant, mentioned that "this is not AC5". The staff did a great job, but even some of them made the same comment. I also heard comments that the I-Corps staff wasn't as good as the I-Corps staff durring AC5...again, I can't compare.

Plus, a lot of the boys didn't realize that although the name is "SummitCorps", they were never going to the "Summit". You could see the quarry they are using for rock, which sits on the Summit propert, but the closest you could get was the sign at the "back door", which is around the corner from NPS headquarters. A lot of people ran over there to get pictures of their contingent, and the security guards are kind enough the take pictures for you.

All in all, it was a great week. The National Chief and Vice-Chief were there and they spent alot of time with the youth that were in attendance. Met alot of other Arrowmen from around the country.

Oh, the locals are very excited about the Summit and the BSA coming to WV. We had a briefing by the director of the Summit, which the BSA poached from the National Park Service, who has a great resume and seems like he's a good fit for the job. We got to see quite a few maps and videos. The contractor is apparently running two 10 hour shifts a day, seven days a week. They put in an 80/20 clause in the contract, being 80% of the hires have to be from WV and 20% have to be local. With 10+% unemployment, folks are excited. On our way out of town on Saturday morning, we went to "Biscuit World", which the locals call "Tudor's". The buses pass one every morning on the way to the trails, so it became a thing for the boys to yell out "Biscuit World" everytime they saw it. So we took them there for breakfast...lots of food and a lot of different ways they serve them. But what was great, was the fact that three diffent times, folks thanked us for coming out to help build trails and told us how excited they were that BSA was coming to their neck of the woods.

It is beautiful country with wonderful people. It's going to be a great place to go!

Oh, the OA is expanding the number and type of staff opprotunities for youth Arrowmen at the 2013 Jambo, which is being dubbed Project 2013. Along with the Service Corps and Indian Village, Trek Guides and Services Guides are being active. If you have youth that might be interested, check out Project 2013

There will be training at NOAC for Project 2013 participants next year.

*edited for some spelling errors(This message has been edited by eaglescout1996)

What number? When I was living in Germany from '89-93, we still using the fully embroidered red numbers, as that's what was in the Scout Shop....I might have what you need lying around.

Not to get off topic, but my wife, who has district and council committee positions, prefers wearing the green/grey uniform over the tan/green one.

Thanks for the head's up. I tried to get on about 8:45am EST and the site was down.

Aye!

In the other thread it was mentioned replacing Commissioner Service with some sort of swap system, where you would visit other units. I like the idea, but it's hard to get units to send representation to RT...so I don't see them going to visit other units.

The problem just seems to perpetuate itself...we don't have enough UCs, which can't make visits, which can't help units, which fail. But it even works the other way around, we recruit (or sometimes can't) committee members, who don't go to training, who don't understand their jobs, who can't help their unit, which fail.

BP is right....Commissioner Service is a thankless job, but I think Committee service is as well (both at the unit and district level). We always get folks who will volunteer as a CM or SM (and sometimes fight over it), but it seems like no one wants to volunteer for the "paper pushing" jobs.

Granted, I'm not out at camp helping guide young men as they teach others who to tie knots, tie lashings, use a map and compass, and the like. But I really believe if I can help a unit succeed, then their unit leaders can provide the best program possible.

As far as UTVS, we use it and it can be effective. When an issue arrises, our District Commissioner Team can put in a plan of action to make contact, find outside help if neccessary, and try to find a permanant solution. The problem is, as mentioned before, we're spread way too thin. As an ADC, I am managing resources and still responsible for visiting 3 Packs.

I'm sticking this here since it's come up in a few threads, MODs, feel free to move it to Council Relations if you see the need.

I am a Commissioner and besides being an Assistant Chapter Advisor and an ASM (when I was in college), it's the only adult position I have held in the 10+ years I've been a scouter.

I really think that the commissioners who are out there making visits, contacting leaders, and attending RT, are being effective. But we can only do so much with the numbers we have....close to every district in every council could use more ACTIVE COMMISSIONERS (my emphasis, not shouting....or maybe I should be).

I have mentioned before that my district has about 8 commissioners on the books, with about half that active (meaning visiting units, making contact, entering visits in to UTVS, ect.), and we could realy use 15-20 active commissioners in total.

How do we increase the commissioner corps? I constantly hear, we don't have a Unit Commissioner...they're not effective...and we don't need the district's help. There's lots of complaints, lot's of solutions, but no one seems to step up and help.

Commissioner Service in its current form will work, if there are dedicated scouters who will take the time to get trained and go out there and make those visits. As a commissioner, I have seen two types...folks who like the cool patch with the wreath and Scouters who go out and provide unit service.

How do we attract those seasoned Scouters who have years of experience to come and help provide Unit Service? As I have mentioned, I have 4-5 Adults who would be perfect, but they would rather staff WB than be a commissioner (or on the district committee or the training chair's staff). I personally believe that unit service and providing the essential training (ITOLS, OWLS, BALOO, ect) is way more important than WB. (I'm not knocking WB, I went through the course and received my beads 5 years ago)

I think I am just frustrated...I see struggling and failing units, units on the edge and all they need is a little TLC from fellow Scouters...but instead of assistance, I see folks doing what they can do to chase that 3rd or 4th bead or a silver critter or the Witney Young Award.

I think National and the National Commissioner realize that great unit service will help with recruitment and retension of youth and are trying to do something about it. But I don't think that new position patches and knot awards are the way to go...but if it does work, maybe we'll get some of those Scouters who are chasing stuff for their uniform anyway!

'72-

Thanks for the suggestion.

I was originaly recruited to be a UC in Central Florida Council about 7 years ago (in the old Canaveral District). I was just out of grad school, hadn't been really involved in Scouting for about 6 years and I was given 4 units. I really like your idea and hopefully it can work for us.

Our Council Commissioner announced last night that our council is taking part in a pilot program which will evaluate changes to chartering new units (I think he mentioned 30 councils). From now on we will not charter a new unit unless it meets the following criteria: Chartered Organization is identified, a minimum of 10 youth to join the unit, a minimum of 5 adults to join the unit, an assigned experienced Unit Commissioner, Key three identified and on board (Unit Leader, CC, and COR). He also mentioned that the Unit Commissioner assignment would last through at least 2 recharter cycles before a new on would be assigned.

I jokingly asked my District Commissioner if anyone had informed the DE's. As everyone here knows, DE's charter units for the sake of chartering units (and their numerical goals). This new pilot is something we should have been doing years ago. My district dropped 3 units at recharter, which is sad, but at least we have other units out there that can serve the boys.

I think every council is dealing with the same issues: DE's charting units without the CO's total support and buy-in, Untrained leaders, and lack of Unit Service. I serve as an ADC and our district could easily use 10-12 more Unit Commissioners. The DC, other ADC, and I make a lot of unit visits because of our shortage. We just can't recruit UCs, we've tried everything, but no dice.

I might sound like I've drunk the Kool-aid, but good Unit Service is essenstial to the program, especially new units. What is sad is there are about 5 Scouters in my district who would make great UCs and whom we have approached, but they spend all their time with/on Wood Badge Staff. As I get a bit older and more experienced in Scouting as a Scouter, I have come to realize that there are way too many distractions for adults in the program. Why can't we focus great program and unit service first, and leave all the other "stuff" to a secondary focus.

The old Camp Freedom was great, good program, and I'm sure people still talk about the lecture you would get that if you were walking to the pool and walked through the farmer's field you'd pay a huge fine. I don't think anyone really thought it would happen, but we wouldn't have done it any way. Or Gizmo, the little stick that got passed around by sneaking it into people's back pockets and it you got caught with it at the dinning hall, the staff would make you do something in front of everyone. I had to sing "I'm a little Tea Pot" with the motions...but I guess now a days you can't do that because it's hazing.

We lived in Augsburg from 1980-1984 and then in Mannheim from 1989-1993.

I was in Troop 527 in Mannheim, which I believe doesn't exist anymore, but 1993 was our 25th Anniversary and was sponsored by my father's BN, who was the COR and CC (there was also Troop 17 which was LDS and Troop 27 on post). One of my fellow Staffers at Jambo is a DoD civilian and Army Reserve Officer in Stuttgart had mentioned a lot of the stuff the US Military provided back in the day, can't anymore. I attended Camp Baden-Powell in 1989, the original Camp Freedom in 1990, Camp Bayern in 1991, and in 1992 we were supposed to go to camp Tuscany in Italy, but there was a freak snow storm in Switzerland and we needed to drive around through France, but we couldn't get permission to take the Army bus through the country so we went to Freedom for a second year.

Being in Scouts on a military base overseas was awesome. Due to being in a close knit community, where we walked to our Patrol and Troop meetings, meant that our troop was really close. I still keep in touch with a lot of the guys and we're spread all across the globe. It also allowed us to do a LOT of patrol activities, from hikes, bike rides, pick-up football and basketball games, to even patrol camping. We could walk to the commissary and get whatever food we needed and did everything ourselves....unlike when we moved back to the states were I was in three troops in three years and they were all adult run.

Sorry to get off topic!

I did witness a fist fight in another patrol. I never found out what exactly happened and the course director only said that night that a participant was "removed" from the course.

As far as my patrol...it was basically "formed" when I got there. Four of the six patrol members were from the same LDS Stake and of course had known each other for quite a while. If you have any influence in your course, please make sure it is as diverse as possible. My course director was LDS and when he started to promote the course he went to the Stakes first and I'd say the course was about 50-60% percent LDS. I don't mean this to be "course bashing", but hopefully helpful.

I am now able to use both chest pockets on my uniforms. As a youth though, my rank patch was sewn through and I always had a temp patch sewn on my right pocket. The round TAC patch and segments when we were in Germany and after we moved back to the states, the World Conservation Award. I don't think any youth actually use their chest pockets since they're not used to wearing shirts with pockets.

I purchased the shirt about 6 months ago. My 100% cotton ODL shirt is starting to look really worn, so I decided to pick up the poly/wool. It was before they took it off the website, so it could have changed.

The label reads as follows:

68% Polyester, 14% Rayon, 18% Wool

Machine Wash

Warm with Like Colors

Only non-chlorine bleach when needed

Tumble Dry Warm

Warm Iron if needed

Not intended for Industrial Laundry Use

Made in Bangladesh

The ODL poly/wool on the other hand reads:

80% Polyester, 20% Wool

Machine Wash

Do not use Bleach

Dark Color Wash Separately

Warm Tumble Dry

Made in the United States of America

The difference in materials makes a difference as well. The ODL is more like polyester shirt (in sheen and feel) and the newer one is more like light weight cotton or almost feels like linen.

This past weekend was one of our Lodge inductions and I drove back three new Arrowmen. The conversation came to uniforms as a couple of them mentioned that they wanted to wait to sew on their new lodge flaps as they were going to get new uniforms very soon, as they ODLs they were wearing they'd had since they were WEBELOS. All three of them mentioned that they didn't like the new uniforms with the tech pockets. They were from a "traditional" troop, which does a ton of camping, backpacking, high adventure trips, and heading to Philmont this summer.

In my personal opinion, the tech pockets were designed to appeal to a new audience. I don't use mine, as I've sewn my position patch through the pocket...but I really don't know what I would use it for. My phone stays in my pocket and I don't bring my iPod on camping trips.

I like the new shirt. The placket of the shirt is made like a traditional dress shirt, unlike the ODL shirts where the fabric is just folded over and the buttons and button holes are just sewn through. I believe the other new shirts are like that as well.

I don't remember if it was mentioned here, but the do have buttons instead of velcro. The buttons are just on the backside of the pocket flap and go through the pocket so they're hidden instead of the ODL shirts. As mentioned, they have a traditional flag patch and the BSA strip is sewn on. For what ever reason, they are a darker color than my ODL shirt, but my other shirt is old, so it could be faded.

The short sleeve shirts were off of Scoutstuff for quite a while and the long sleeve poly/wool was the only thin listed. This could be a reason why some stores thought they were "new".

I personally don't like the centennial shirts, mainly the "tech" pocket, but also the materials. The poplin shirt is really stiff, even after being washed at least a dozen times, and I wear it when my other shirts are dirty. I purchased a Supplex shirt for Jambo and I haven't worn it since then. I think that it's a good material for an activity shirt, but when we're out in the woods, we're not wearing a uniform. The Supplex shirts that folks have had a few years have faded to a really weird gray color. I don't know if it's a defect or what.

But I do really like the new poly/wool shirt.

I just wanted to add that although the website says that the shirt is dry clean only, the tag on the shirt says machine wash.(This message has been edited by eaglescout1996)

I have the new poly/wool shirt, along with a poly/wool ODL. Both are actually not Dry Clean Only, they can be laundered. The pants on the other hand, I believe are.

I wash them with like items and maybe every 3rd time or so, I dry clean. They haven't shrunk, but from constant use, the ODL is starting to show wear (it's almost 20 years old). The material under the arms is starting to separate next to the stitching...it's stayed intact, the material is starting to come apart. I guess I could always turn it to get another new version, but I really like the ODL poly/wool. I'll probably take it to a seamstress and get the shirt repaired.

If you really like HA and want to be able to provide some skills in that area to you Troop, why not try and see if there is a Powder Horn course coming up near by?

Take that knowledge, apply it to the Troop, and when you want to take WB you can take that focus and marry the two together.

If you really want to concentrate on HA, I'd say Powder Horn maybe more up your alley.

I just sent you a PM so you know what you are looking for...there are a bunch out there.

You can either cut out the collar on a current shirt and sew it back up...or you can search ebay for a vintage Scout shirt. I saw a few not long ago, good condition sans collar.

Thanks for the heads up.

I didn't know any better and took their word. I should just take them into my seamstress and have them hemmed.

The only thing is, I only have one 100% cotton shirt and I have some weird adverson to wearing different fabric uniform parts together. With two pairs of pants and only one shirt, the pants won't get worn that often. I've been scouring eBay and other avenues for a NOS 100% cotton shirt, but I haven't found a thing.

It all depends on the Scout Shop. I have taken back things in which they required that I get the same product, other times they let me get a similar product.

I once had the fabric compltetly come apart on a pair of BSA Cotton slacks that I had only worn twice since getting them hemmed. (like the poly/wools but cotton, they aren't made anymore), they insisted that I get the same pair. The reason was probably that they knew they were being discontinued. I still have the pair and they haven't been hemmed yet, still hanging in my closet.

Good luck, I have two poly/wool shirts (one ODL and a newer version), I really like them. With the newer version, unlike the one's with the pocket on the sleeve, although you can't see the pocket buttons, they button into the pocket (in reverse of a normal shirt)...so if you wear your OA uniersal ribbon or 75th Anniversary Award, there is no fear of it falling off.