Eagle76

I bow to msnowman's wisdom and superior articulation. Habits which are "just a lazy way to avoid having to make fresh choices" are really what I'm railing against. And I share her pet peeve of "but we've always done it that way", and I capitilized the similar phrase in my story because I usually hear it uttered reverently, as if it were written in stone by the finger of God.

Here's a story which illustrates the syndrome:

Scientists conducted an experiment. They placed 5 monkeys in a room. In the room was a ladder, and a bunch of bananas near the top of the ladder. The monkeys immediately began to climb the ladder to reach the bananas. But whenever a monkey tried, they were all blasted by a high pressure water hose. They soon learned not to try to get the bananas. Then one of the monkeys was removed, and replaced with a new monkey. The new monkey started to climb the ladder to reach the bananas. The other 4 monkeys immediately attacked him and beat him to stop him, because they didn't want to get hosed. The new monkey thus learned not to try to reach the bananas. Then another of the original monkeys was removed, and replaced with a new monkey. The new monkey started to climb the ladder, and all 4 other monkey attacked him to stop him, until he too, learned not to try to reach the bananas. Another original monkey was replaced, then a fourth one, with the pattern repeating. The fifth and last original monkey was replaced, and the latest new monkey was beaten as usual when he tried tried to reach the bananas. He asked why, and the other 4 monkeys replied, "Because that's the Way We've Always Done It".

There is nothing inherently wrong with traditions.

However, they sometimes can become ruts. There is nothing wrong with questioning the status quo, and trying to find out if there is a better way. If you can't find a good reason for doing things the way you do, maybe it's time for a change. This is a battle I face constantly on my job, as well as within my troop committee.(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

I work for a company which builds satellites, and we use graphite-expoxy composite materials extensively. In fact, I could probably teach the merit badge, except I don't do the hands-on work and I know nothing about skateboards or surfboards.

I say, run it up the flagpole and see how it flies. Composites are being used more and more in various engineering areas due to their high strength and light weight, although I guess it's still not as sexy as something like electronics.

As a point of order, composites materials and plastics are two different things.

I think I'd like to tell a little story. You all may find it irrelevant and a waste of time, but I think it touches on a number of points that have been raised: not meeting requirements, the responsibility of the Scout vs. adult, and the bigger picture of the aims of Scouting. Take it for whatever it's worth. Numerous points will violate today's policies/procedures, if not those in place at the time. Please don't dwell on them.

In my Scouting youth, we often needed to find our own merit badge counselor. Needing a counselor for Citizenship in the Nation, I recruited my 8th grade social studies teacher. I studied my merit badge pamphlet, tried my best to learn the material, met with him one-on-one to discuss various things in the requirements, and in the end he signed off my merit badge card. However, in the end I was somewhat dis-satisifed and unsettled because he hadn't tested me thoroughly on every item down the line, and there were some things I didn't clearly understand, like the Electoral College. What did I do? I turned in my blue card and received the merit badge. What else could I do? I was just a kid, my teacher was an adult. Who was I to tell him what to do?

A year or so later, I was sitting in a conference room on the 22nd floor of a downtown skyscraper with three strange men, having my Eagle Board of Review. One them asked me to describe how a president was elected. I talked about the popular vote, how the winner of each state got a number of votes equal to the number of representatives plus senators, and then it went something like this...

Me: Then comes a part I don't quite understand. The colleges somehow vote for president.

Him: Are you talking about the Electoral College?

Me: Yes! That's it! But I don't really understand it.

He then proceeded to explain to me what the Electoral College was all about, how the Electors actually met to cast the votes for president, and the election wasn't truly complete until then, no matter when the TV networks declared a winner.

A little later, to my great relief they congratulated me on becoming an Eagle Scout, rather than withholding it because I clearly hadn't understood one of the things I was supposed to learn for a required merit badge.

This whole episode was burned into my mind, and the electoral process so intrigued me, that several years later I wrote a paper for my college political science class on the Presidential Election process. In the end, I probably understand the process far better than the typical Scout who earns his Citizenship in the Nation merit badge.(This message has been edited by Eagle76)(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

(information below stolen from Council website, as that's easier than re-typing)

Or better yet, see it all first hand at:

http://www.sfbac.org/training/wb/index.htm

WE3-28-06

San Francisco Bay Area Council

Course Details

Dates & Locations

August 30, 2006

7:00 pm Wednesday evening

Orientation and

Registration finalization, Q & A

Youth Leadership Training Center

1001 Davis St., San Leandro

Note: full attendance at both weekend sessions is required for course completion.

September 15-17, 2006

Friday 8 am to Sunday about 5 pm

Camp Royaneh

Cazadero, CA

October 7-9, 2006

Saturday 8 am to Monday about 5 pm

Rancho Los Mochos

Livermore, CA

In between the two weekends, there will be two patrol meetings scheduled at the convenience of patrol members.

Cost

$210, which includes

All instructional materials, special equipment and your stay in two beautiful camps

All meals on the first weekend, and Monday lunch on the second weekend.

A $75 deposit is due at the time of registration

Complete payment is due July 30, 2006. Early payment is appreciated.

Questions: sfwoodbadge@comcast.net

(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

I've seen some pretty skinny Cub Scouts in my day; there's no way 40 belt loops would fit. The belt would probably lap them at least twice. Therefore, the obvious solution (albeit also not official) is ... to fashion belt-loop bandoliers! Maybe out of those red suspenders.

I'll just add my data point.

As an ASM, I discuss our troop program and vision with the SM and the other ASM's frequently, though informally. We have discussed getting together regularly and formally to discuss these things, and I am in favor of it, but we haven't started it yet.

Regarding attendance at committee meetings:

I used to attend regularly so I would know what was going on; minutes from committee meetings are not distributed to everyone, so if you don't attend, you often would miss the word on things. Then they moved the committee meetings to the same time as troop meetings. This has had the positive effect of boosting parent attendance at committee meetings, but I wish they hadn't, as I decided my place was at the troop meeting. The SM attends the committiee meetings, makes his report, etc, and I try to find out from him what's going on.

The discussion in the original thread began to wander to the topic of how merit badges are supposed to be signed off, and my comments seemed to initiate it. So I'm spinning off this thread to continue.

Many comments regarded how the process is supposed to work, but I'm going to air our troop's "dirty laundry" with regard to "The Way We've Always' Done Things." I know it's wrong, and I hope through steady pressure to change things, but I'm curious as to how many other troops "cut corners" in this regard.

First, our troop committee recruits among the parents for volunteers to counsel merit badges. From a list, parents check off those merit badges they're willing to counsel.

IS: A member of the troop committe compiles a merit badge counsellor list, which is distributed to all.

Should Be: Merit badge counsellors fill out applications, which are sent to the Council, which then approves (or rejects) the applications

IS: Scouts use the list to contact a troop parent about being their counsellor, and then get a blue card from the Scoutmaster.

SB: Scouts approach the Scoutmaster, get a blue card, and are directed to a counsellor from a Council-approved list by the SM. (SM should also direct Scout to a counsellor to complete a partial, say one begun at summer camp.)

After completing the merit badge requirements and getting them signed by the counsellor, the blue card is brought to the SM for his final signature, then given to the Advancement Chair. Blue cards are turned in with the Troopmaster advancement report to purchase the merit badges for the COH.

IS: No checking on the validity of counsellors seems to be done by the Council.

SB: Council verifies that counsellors have filled out applications and been approved.

So, my question is, are we alone in being out of line, or is this fairly common? To be honest, I don't even know for sure if our Council maintains an approved list of merit badge counsellors.

evmori asks:

"How, pray tell, is the district going to handle the incomplete required merit badges? If they haven't been completed, there is no way the Scout can even qualify for his Eagle BOR."

But the original poster says:

"and he failed to complete the 90 day requirements for some of his merit badges; he started too late, but found counselors (in one case a parent) to sign off on them anyway"

So from the District's point of view, the merit badges have been completed; they've been signed by a counselor. However, it appears the sign-offs were done improperly. For one thing, the merit badge process involves the Scoutmaster directing the Scout to a counselor; the Scout doesn't find one who will sign him off. Furthermore, if the parent (or other counselors) who signed off the Scout's merit badges is not registered with the council as a merit badge counselor, that's another reason to question the validity of the merit badge.

To summarize, the sign-offs appear to have been done by a counselor not approved ahead of time by the Scoutmaster, and possibly the counselors in question are not registered with the council. IMHO, if the Scoutmaster feels the Scout has not properly completed the requirements for Eagle, but is just looking for solid "evidence" to support his position, this may be it.

Some months back, in another thread which I wouldn't be able to relocate in a million years, the (erroneous) 7-method page on the national site was brought up, and someone provided a link to the (correct) 8-method page. I imagine someday the erroneous page will be removed.

In the thread I spun this from, the following comment was made:

"You are correct, I never judge a scout by what he wears or how he wears it."

I wanted discuss this further, because I think it's important. Not the judging part, but the how to wear it part. The context of the comment was with regard to baggy pants and crooked hats, which I would agree are minor.

However, my question is in regards to proper wearing of the uniform. The context: our troop requires Scouts to be in uniform when on the road, which includes to and from summer camp, which was last week. This means shirt, pants, and belt in our troop. No neckerchiefs, as "the boys will lose them." So, we rendevous at Burger King, and a number of boys have their uniform shirts unbuttoned and untucked. As a couple of them walked past me, (both Star rank, one an ASPL) I quietly told them to get buttoned up and tucked in. When I turned a few moments later to see if they were complying, all I got were dirty looks and no change in appearance. The same comment to another ASPL a few minutes later just brought complaints that it was too hot. However, a similar comment a little later to an 11-year old resulted in immediate buttoning and tucking. Then on the way home, another rendevous at A&W. As I entered, our SPL, unbuttoned and untucked, was being quietly talked to by the SM of another troop, whom I knew because he was on staff when I went through SM specific and Outdoor Skills training. The gist of his comments was to wear the uniform buttoned up and tucked in or not at all. I agree, and was somewhat embarrassed that our SPL should need to hear this from someone outside our troop.

So, am I being obsessive compulsive about this, or should I suggest to our SM that it's time for a Scoutmaster Minute on wearing the uniform correctly?

A nugget in the original post:

"I looked into further training but it was mainly to do with hunting. I don't hunt and didn't want to invest $900.00."

Another training option is Agiliity Course training. Look for a kennel which offers it. Dogs learn to run an obstacle course with their trainer: weaving among a series of poles, going through tunnels, up steps and down slides. It's great exercise for both dog and owner. Eventually, you can choose to enter competitions.

Ditto on the benefits of a wall chart.

Our troop has historically done a poor job in planning and conducting activities that will allow Scouts to meet their advancement needs. Sign-offs are also sporadic. The pace of rank advancement in the last year has been poor. So I went out and got a wall chart ($1.85 plus tax) at the Scout shop. I showed it to the PLC and told them (wearing my acting Advancement Chair hat) that I wanted to start tracking the Scouts progress, and that (wearing my ASM hat) they could use the chart to see what activities young Scouts needed, and plan accordingly. I privately hoped it would also provide some motivation. I asked if they wanted to list all Scouts, or only track up to First Class. They voted to list all Scouts, reasoning that this would help younger Scouts identify which older Scouts were "qualified" to sign off requirements. (Also, maybe, to show off their own high ranks a little?)

I presented the chart at the next troop meeting, told the boys they could check off the boxes themselves after they got requirements signed off.

The results, in my opinion, were dramatic, better than I had hoped.

First, I was killing time during the troop meeting x'ing out the boxes up to the known ranks of the Scouts. I was called away, and several older Scouts came over and took over the job. Then younger boys started looking at the chart, and saying "Hey, I only need a couple more things for the next rank." Then they went and looked at their books. And found that they had completed some requirements which were not signed off. And they went and got older Scouts to sign them off. Next thing you know, 2 Scouts were announcing they were ready for their Scoutmaster conferences for their next rank!

Frankly, I was amazed. Apparently, even I had underestimated the potential motivation of a little publicity. Your results may vary, but what is there to lose?

Heavy sigh.

I feel so lonely.

At the risk of sounding twice my age, my preferences center around Beethoven and Mozart.

I'm surprised someone hasn't posted this already; it's cited so frequently in these forums.

The first thing to get from your Scout Shop is:

Advancement Committee Policies and Procedures, 33088B

There are also some supplemental training modules for SM conferences and BOR's available on the National web site. Let's see if this works:

http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/supplemental/(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

purcelce quizzed:

"What would be a Half Class A?

What would be a Quarter Class A?

Where does Class B fit into the equation? "

OK, I'll play. In our troop:

"Full Class A" would consist of shirt, pants, belt, neckerchief, merit badge sash. Worn for BOR's and COH's. (Sorry all, socks are ignored).

"Half Class A" which is sometimes called "Class A" in our troop, is shirt, pants, & belt. Worn for troop meetings, service projects, traveling to/from campouts & summer camp, and to dinner & flags at summer camp. ("The boys would just lose their neckerchiefs")

"Quarter Class A" consists of a shirt, and this is sometimes all you get for troop meetings and campouts.

"Class B" is the troop T-shirt or summer camp T-shirt, worn on campouts (Class A's having been stripped off as soon as we park) and during the day at summer camp.(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

Unfortunately, Lisabob's experience isn't unique. I attended our Council's University of Scouting session two months ago. Among the classes I attended were "First Class, First Year", "How to Retain Older Scouts", and "The Patrol Method." The instructors spent most of the time going over the NLE basics: The mission, the aims, the methods, etc. All things that should be and are covered elsewhere, and very little on the intended subject of the course.

Boy, you never can tell when you'll learn something new.

There are hills in Kansas?!? d;-)

In my youth, the neckerchief was always worn as part of the uniform. We had a unique, homemade troop neckerchief.

The troop I now serve has chosen not to wear neckerchiefs. Except when they must wear them. In short, we are schizophrenic.

The troop has a chosen neckerchief design, and one is given to all new Scouts. But they have chosen not to wear them to troop meetings, while traveling to and from outings, or to summer camp. "Class A's" are defined as not including the neckerchief. The excuse is "the boys lose them." However, the neckerchief is required for Scoutmaster Conferences, Board of Reviews, and Courts of Honor.

When I became an ASM and donned my short-sleeved Scouter uniform, I learned in my research that a neckerchief was not required by adults with short-sleeved shirts. So I arrived at our next Court of Honor without a neckerchief. The ex-Scoutmaster, who still served as ASM, promptly asked why I wasn't wearing a neckerchief. So I went an got one. And I decided that I would wear a neckerchief to all troop meetings from then on. Then, when a Scout is ready for a SM conference or BOR, but has forgotten his neckerchief, and all his friends are without theirs too, guess who is able to loan him one?(This message has been edited by Eagle76)(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

Well, gosh darn it, now you made me go Googling.

A search on "mosquito male feeding" led me to this site (oh, and it's 'mosquitoes':

http://www.wordsources.info/words-mod-mosquitoesPt1.html

Where amongst many interesting tidbits is this:

Among mosquitoes, it has been established that only the females desire and extract blood.

Although I travel incognito,

I cant deceive the smart mosquito;

While others also have corpuscles,

Mine are the ones toward which she hustles;

My blood is thin and I have asthma;

She doesnt care, she wants my plasma.

Mosquitoes seem to love the rind of me,

The front, the sides, and the behind of me;

Ive tried to think why theyre so smitten,

And as I think, once more Im bitten.

-Dick Emmons

Male mosquitoes drink only sugary fluids such as flower nectar. Both in the wild and in the laboratory, mosquitoes will visit certain flowers and will feed on fruit placed in their cage.

Since they vigorously probe the flowers of some plants, and can distinguish between different types of sugars, they play a role in the pollination of certain plants.

The females will also drink sugary fluids, but when hungry females are given a choice between sugar water and blood, they will always choose blood.

If males are offered the same choice, they will always drink the sugar water.

Since male mosquitoes do not suck blood, they also do not transmit diseases. Like the males of many other insect families, they are important for just one reason, and then they become superfluous.

According to my Baseball Encyclopedia, Chuck Connors played 1 game for the Dodgers in 1949. He went 0/1 as a pinch hitter. In 1951 he appeared in 66 games for the Cubs. He played 57 games at 1B and had 10 pinch hit appearances. He went 48/201 (.239). There is no mention of him in the pitcher's register.

I have a vague childhood memory of Chuck Connors having his buttons cut off and his sword broken. I've been wanting to see "Branded" ever since, but so far it hasn't shown up on Nick at Nite or TVLand.(This message has been edited by Eagle76)

Eamonn wrote:

"I seen something on the TV the other night that suggests that it is on the rise."

Just to support this (and it's a little scary), our SM's wife is a speech therapist who encounters many autistic children. The subject came up in conversation recently, and she said that autism used to occur in 1 in 1000 children, but in recent years it has approached 1 in 150. She attributes it to greater use of chemicals and plastics in food packaging. Her extra caution: Never microwave with plastic wrap still covering the food.

Two unrelated comments, not serious enough to start new threads.

OneHour said:

"I don't know about anyone else but those "stinking" canvas tents bring this "je ne sais quois" about them. I do believe that it's part of BSA's summer camp memories that shouldn't be missed! I still remember my days as a Tenderfoot camping in the canvas tents at Camp Strake in Houston."

Several years ago, going on Tiger safari with my son, I entered a Scout camp for the first time in over 25 years. It was like I was transported back in time, to every other Scout camp I had known, and I was on familiar ground again. This common experience gives all Scouts a certain bond.

anarchist said:

"lather up in deet and enjoy the mosquito song.....buzzz buzzz buzzz buzzz whine buzzz buzzz!"

I've heard that only female mosquitos bite, but they make no sound when they fly. Male mosquitos buzz, but they don't bite. So if you are awakened by the buzzing of mosquitos, you can just roll over and go back to sleep. But if you hear nothing....

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think paintball is only prohibited if it involves shooting at other people. You can shoot targets with paintball guns, BB guns, slingshots.....

(Envious comments about your troop deleted)

We collect insurance information (carrier, coverage amounts, etc.) and I think also driver's license numbers from all parents who are going to be providing transportation. I think that covers us.