Eagle69

In my Council we do Troop Eagle Board of Reviews and it isn't uncommon at all for an ASM from the candidate's own Troop to be on the board. As SM for thirty years and having been involved in 25+ Eagle Boards of Review, I have only sat in on two or three and then I was the mouse in the back of the room.

I've never heard that rule before and it obviously isn't something that our council worries about since they know most troops leave about 6:00 and they plan camporees 2 hours away. I'm in Arkansas and outside of late May - October anything over an 1 1/2 hours away you are going to be traveling in the dark so that covers most camping areas. I've never had it brought up when getting a Tour Permit approved.

I used to be a Beaver, and a Good Old Beaver too,

But now I've finished Beavering and I don't know what to do.

I'm growing old and feeble, and I can Beaver no more!

So I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

Back to Gilwell, Happy Land,

I'm going to work my ticket if I can!

And I did 25+ years ago. Course WWBSC134.

It's probably too late, but here is a link to a place on BSA National Website where you can put in your zip code and get a list of all the troops in your area.

http://www.thescoutzone.org/locator.html

I became SM at the age of 27 and was recruited for the job by older adults, who also recruited two ASM's in the same age group. However I would not have accepted the job without the assurances of several older adults, who were parents, that they would be there to help. I am still SM after 28 years and am not a parent, but I have always made sure I have had a parent, usually older but not always, as part of the Troop Leadership. You can't just put an age down and use that as your qualifier to even be considered. Every person is different. I've had kids that at age 13 were as mature as some 18 year olds and 18 year olds that still acted like 15. Use age as just another item on your checklist when selecting a leader.

All during the 60's when I was a Scout, Tap Out and Ordeals were done during Summer Camp. Wednesday night was parents night and Tap Out, Thursday was Ordeal, Thursday night was Ordeal and Brotherhood ceremonies. As a camper and a staffer I don't recall ever hearing saying it caused a problem. If it did we handled it on an individual basis. When I came back in Scouting as an adult 30 years ago I thought the whole OA bit had been watered down and it had lost a lot of the mystique/reverence that it used to have. If you tapped them out at camp they were there and got the Ordeal done at the same time, now you have to have two different weekends scheduled.

Eamonn the kids obviously respect you and trust you. If you didn't use your judgment when you overheard things or know things and put a quiet word in to the appropriate party, who would?? Word has bound to have gotten out about what you have done and yet the kids still talk in front of you so they must not mind. Your intervention may save a kid from a major disaster later. We as scout leaders probably get more time, where we can watch and listen, around a boy and his peers than anybody else. We probably can know too much, but that is the price we pay for doing what we do and trying to be a positive influence on a young persons life.

WFS - World Federation of Scouting? I have no idea if that is it or not ,but when I saw the initials that popped into my head. I have a 1960's era Yucca Pack and I'll have to look at it now to see if it has that on it somewhere.

I think this has been debated before along with whether or not sheath knives are allowed. The answer, if my memory is correct, is that there are no "official BSA" restrictions. Troops, camps, etc. can create rules and some of these have over time become to be treated as the "official" rules.

A very interesting thread. I got my Eagle in 69 back when you had to have the plant/animal id, signaling, time between each rank, etc. Fast forward to 77 when I came back to Scouting as an adult. I looked at the handbook and was shocked that you truly could get to Eagle without ever going camping. This book was in effect until the 80's when Bill Harcourt (Green Bar Bill) and others finally got things back on track and the requirements resembled those of old. Now we are in the 21st Century and things have changed again. We have to do some things to keep the program current. If you talk to some of the real old timers and see what merit badges were required back in the 30's-50's you would be shake your head, but they were practical for the time.

As for wanting to be a traditionalist and cook over wood fires, etc, that's fine if you can do it. A lot of places where troops camp don't allow open fires or you can only do it with the wood you brought or bought. The old way probably did a better job of teaching a scout how to survive in the woods, but times have changed and the program must also to survive.

The most current CNN Story says the boy suffers from ADD and does not have his medication with him and I believe it also said he didn't have a daypack with him. Just because the boy has completed the stuff for First Class does not mean he will remember it or that he really learned it.

Camp Pioneer is in West Arkansas over near Mena, which is South of Fort Smith and almost on the Ark/Okla border.

Here is the website: http://www.camppioneer.org/

Here is the Blass Scout Reservation info (this is the Quapaw Council camp located North of Conway outside of Damascus on Hwy 65): http://www.quapawbsa.org/facilities/blass/

Here is Camp Orr, Westark's camp: http://www.doubleknot.com/openrosters/ViewOrgPageLink.asp?LinkKey=3300&orgkey=1154

Eamonn wrote: 'The loss of a unit and 30 youth members is sure to act as a wake up call."

Wrong! I am SM of a unit that has had 43 continuous years of charter and we didn't renew last month because we have no kids left. I haven't heard one thing from anybody at the council level about this. You would think somebody would want a meeting even if they know why we didn't recharter.

As SM that is something I do. I am lucky that I live in the same town as the Council Service Center so it's no trouble for me to run by at lunch or on the way home to get this done. Another benefit is that because I'm been around so long I know the people down at the Service Center (professionals as well as support staff) and if someone gives me a hard time on something that they shouldn't, I know who to get to help. With one of my last Eagles, the Registrar was out so the Scout Exec's Secretary was the backup, she wouldn't sign off on the form for a non-valid reason (she was interpreting the requirements wrong) so I went to my DE and got him involved and we got the signature. If it had been a committee member they probably would have backed down.

There is no stock answer to your question. Based on your post I would say that YOU and YOUR committee made the best decision for your troop and the parents supported you and commended you for it. The bottom line is that you have to take each case on it's on merits and then use your knowledge to make the call.

I've pulled the plug on outings on Friday afternoon as people came to the departure point because conditions had changed to the point I didn't think it was a good idea to go.

Council/District is hardly ever going to give money back. Once they get it in their hands they keep it unless THEY cancel or there is a refund policy stated for the event and you complied with the policy when you canceled out.

I am single-single(i.e. never married) and have been involved with Scouting at the adult level for 30 years, 2 as ASM-28 as SM. I am an Eagle and a Vigil. I've never had anybody say a word to me in regards to my marital status and scouting. In some ways it is easier to participate because you are single and in other ways it's harder.

My Troop has been there twice and loved every minute of it. The last time was probably 5 years ago.

In my council it would probably not be approved without a lot of hassle. The Tour Permits are done by administrative staff and they basically have a checklist of things to look for, so if something isn't there that there checklist says should be they won't approve it. If that happens then you have to appeal to a higher authority.

I had this happen on an Eagle Application where someone other than the Registrar was checking it and found something missing and wasn't going to approve it. Fortunately my DE was there and told her that if she didn't approve it, he would.

The identity theft is a weak argument.

I did this sort of thing for 6 consecutive Summers years ago and we put in about a 12-13 hour day, but drove no more than 600 miles. At that time 600 miles was the rule and if you specified more than that on the National Tour Permit it would be turned down. In that 12-13 hour day we had a breakfast and lunch stop before we got to the days destination. All costs were built into the fee. Back then you didn't have to worry about gas costs increasing like now, but your idea of picking a number and basing it on that is a good one.

With a group as big as you will have (40-50) accomadations will be a major problem. You would need at least 10 rooms at a motel, state/national campgrounds would require many campsites depending on the rules of how many tents per site you could have. I would look for a Scout Camp along the way that might let you pitch tents in it or maybe a church that has a gym that you could use. Camping and cooking along the way probably isn't a good idea.

As far as evening activities, for the boys yes to let them burn off unused energy, the adults will probably be tired and just want to rest. Side trips along the way are good. In PA you have Philadelphia with Independence Hall, Gettysburg, Valley Forge.

That depends on which "Old Course" they are talking about. I did a walking WB in 1978 and when other leaders that I knew took WB in the 80's theirs was slightly different. The whole course was done totally outdoors teaching you leadership fundamentals while in a patrol environment. Almost everything that went on was scripted in such a way as to try and get you to understand what it was they were trying to teach. Parts of it were a game, but it all had purpose. It took my patrol the whole course to get our act together so we made formation on time and didn't get sung to for being late. You still had the "Ticket", but based on what I read here, what it involved is totally different from what it is today.

I would say that the current editon of the Requirements Book takes precedence over the revised Merit Badge Pamplet. In our Council I doubt very seriously if a District Advancement Chair would have any idea which is the more current nor would they care. On the Troop level, since most Troops don't replace Merit Badge Pamplets on a regular basis, the Requirements Book will probably be the thing most have.

If by managing your unit you mean keeping track of advancement, membership, awards, etc. then you need to look at TroopMaster. I've used it for several years and really like it and it seems to be very popular among the units. It even has it's own YAHOO message board.

I think your comment "I really question how much his son wants to be in Scouting, the feeling I get is that ASM is trying to relive his experience as a Scout. He's pushing his son to advance, the camp he suggested is where he went to summer camp." hit the nail on the head. It sounds like he is trying to have it both ways: relive his days as a Scout, get to be the adult and give orders. I don't envy you because I expect anything you say or do will just make matters worse. The outcome would be that he would either create a major fuss with your group or pull out and go somewhere else, or just pull out completely and his son pays the price.

Not having had to worry about First Class scouts for awhile I wasn't aware that they had added this requirement. It's stupid! I wonder what MBA genious at National thought this up? Obviously someone that never has worked in the program, which seems to be the case on a lot of the rules and requirements they come up with.

The Troop pays, that's what dues money and money from Fundraisers are for.