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  • Venturing Youth at Wood Badge

    While I was at Kodiak there was a 19 year old Venturer in my group who had attended Wood Badge and she was attending Kodiak as a participant. Aren't there regulations against Venturing youth attending Wood Badge? Or do you just have to be 18?

  • #2
    No Specific regs. But a venturer should be in a position of responsibility to get the most out of the course. Just my opinion.

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    • #3
      In our council you have to be a fully trained leader in a adult position as a prerequisite for Wood Badge. I would guess she must have been a fully trained ASM then to have attended WB at 19. Timing seems a little iffy but certainly possible.

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      • #4
        We had a gal who was a venturing youth in one of the WB patrols in my course. ......She was a freshman in college and left school to attend on the weekend and both weekends got lost, so she says, to turn up late friday afternoon.

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        • #5
          I had a boy in Scouts that was a year off in school and so he turned 18 between his Junior and Senior years of high school. He signed on as an ASM. He took adult training that first summer while at summer camp with the troop, then went immediately into WB that fall and finished up before graduating high school. He did just fine and is now a crew chief in the US Air Force.

          Stosh

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          • #6
            I know a young man who took WB at 18. He was registered and trained as an ASM in the troop he was a youth at. Worked his ticket, got his beads. This past fall at the age of 19, he was my course leader on my NYLT course and did a fantastic job. He has also staffed Kodiak. Technically, a Venturing youth can attend NYLT up until 21, but we encourage them to attend WB instead. It's difficult enough to arrange tentage with the wide age range and coed nature of NYLT. A 19 or 20 year old Venturer in college will more likely enjoy attending WB with adults than dealing with 13 year old patrol members in NYLT.

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            • #7
              Caveat: I have not taken WB so this is based upon my experiences, conversations with others, obersvations, and reading. So take it for what it is worth.

              When I took the old BA22 course way back when, I was told it is almost identical to WB. In the council I grew up in,the only people who wore campaign ocvers were the WB and BA22 Folks. In fact the campaign cover was given to BA22 graduates along with the patch.

              When I staffed JLTC as SPL a few years later, one of my youth staffers registered for WB since he was turning 18 before the course and the PTB were waiving the 2 year tenure requirement, although he did have to get trained. His words to me after WB was, "It was a waste of time. Everything we taught at JLT was covered again and I knew it all already. If you want to go to WB, go when you need a refresher [course]."

              When I conducted IOLS, I was trying to organize the course the way BA22, JLT, and the old SM Fundamentals course was organized with a team of folks teaching instead of 1 person doing it all as it has been traditionally done in my district. Comment made by one of the staffers, "This is exactly how WB staff is done."

              When NYLT came out, national decided to award 3 beads to adult staffers who went through WB, and 4 beads for Course Directors who met the requirements. Reason, being that the two courses are identical except for the ticket.

              And my adult friends on NYLT staff also have made the comment that the two courses are nearly identical.

              So my question is this: why wouldn't an 18-20 year old Venturer want to go WB21C? Especially since WB has greater prestige in many people's eyes than NYLT.

              Comment


              • #8
                "why wouldn't an 18-20 year old Venturer want to go WB21C?"
                Because they have Kodiak. Kodiak is a leadership course made specifically for Venturers. Why would they need to go to Wood Badge when they are still considered youth in their crews and can attend Kodiak? WB is the training course for adults. Unless of course they were looking to become adult members of a Boy Scout or Varsity group.

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                • #9
                  441,

                  While I am not as familiar with Kodiak and Kodiak X as I probably should be, I can tell you from first hand expereince that there are many, not all but many, who have the attitude that if you don't wear beads,you don't mean squat. Didn't matter that I not only had the same training as WB when I did BA22 but also taught the same material as WB when I staffed JLT. Because I don't have bead and am one of the regular critters, my opinions and recommendations were to be ignored.

                  And I have seen youth who been through these courses be ignored by some of the adults in their units because the adults knew better, despite the youth having the training.

                  Further WB has a history dating to 1919 if memory serves and BP, even with the changes over the years and most esp the WB21C. When folks ask what critter you are, they look at ya weird when you say "COCKY CURLEW!"

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                  • qwazse
                    qwazse commented
                    Editing a comment
                    Plus, some venturers are leadership course junkies. Now, I'll agree that this is a lousy reason to take WB. But for some folks it's reason enough.

                • #10
                  At my Wood-badge course there were ventures there as young as 14; had one in my patrol. I got the impression that our council was requiring it. Many were part of Wood-badge staff and ran several of the "challenges," etc.

                  Comment


                  • SR540Beaver
                    SR540Beaver commented
                    Editing a comment
                    qwazse, I have no idea the percentage of courses across the country that actually use Venturers. My council never has. I'm willing to bet many others don't. It's hard enough to do the staff development with the staff. It would be even tougher to bring additional people (youth with the kind of schedules they have) into the mix and train them for just a small portion they would have. It adds a layer of complexity to the process. Now, that's not saying it's a bad idea, just that it can make things more difficult than a volunteer Course Director wants to fool with. I'll add another wrinkle to the complexity. In MY council, we have some guy who is in charge or "talent". A WB or NYLT CD doesn't just get to name the people they want. They can suggest. They can give a list. But all staffing for course has to run through a series of people as well as this talent guy to get people approved to staff........and that's just approval to ask them to staff. If you get turned down, you go back thru the process again. I always counsel new CD's to make an A, B and C list and get names approved all at once so thatwhen people turn you down, you still have others to ask. Adding a youth component to the course just makes for a bigger list and more approvals.

                  • NeverAnEagle
                    NeverAnEagle commented
                    Editing a comment
                    qwazse: The Crew taught Leave-no-Trace, covered information on backpacking, went over camp selection, produced model campsites, ran the challenge course, and lead the ethical discussions in each patrol. Each Patrol was assigned a Venturing Youth to act as our troop guide for the second weekend; first weekend our den leader was an adult. We we told this was to show the difference between boy led and youth led organizations.

                    SR540Beaver: we never crossed over to a crew. We went from Pack to Troop. The course never covered Venturing, if we had questions we could ask the crew members in our "free time." The SM made a point of saying the she never took the "wood-badge pledge" so she didn't feel obligated to follow the syllabus. She said our council puts on a better program that what-ever national is prescribing.

                  • SR540Beaver
                    SR540Beaver commented
                    Editing a comment
                    NAE, you are correct that the patrol does not transition from a patrol to a crew. My bad. Venturing is modeled by the Troop Guides who go thru an induction ceremony on the night of day four I believe. But the course does indeed touch on Venturing and one path for that is the use of Venturing youth during the second weekend. As far as what your CD said, I have a hard time believing that. I've staffed 4 WB course, one of which I was backup CD and staffed 2 NYLT courses. I was backup CD on one and CD on the other. I've attended 2 Course Director Development Conferences which are required to be a CD and for the council to hold a course. If you don't send someone who has been approved, you will not hold a course. They don't allow wiggle room on that. That is where you stand in front of everyone at the conference and take the pledge verbally and also sign in writing that you WILL follow the syllabus as written. It's an honor thing of course, but if Regional and/or National who has to approve council courses were to discover that your council were not adhering to the pledge and syllabus, they would not allow another course until that was corrected. It actually IS a very BIG thing to BSA. They allow for local traditions and flavor, but do not allow doing your own thing.

                • #11
                  And they think that's a good thing?

                  Sorry. I just couldn't help myself...

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