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  • #16
    "Correcting a council staff member's uniform (given the right opportunity) before he "models" correct uniforming (among many other things) need not be demeaning,.."

    The whole "uniform police" label comes from "special" folks that know what they do is not correct and take offense when some well-meaning person naively believes they just don't know, and informs them. They then get demeaned and slapped with the UP label.


    • #17

      Not to play Devil's Advocate, I am a member of the Uniform Police ( you had to read my thread at entitled "...YOU MIGHT BE A UNIFORM POLICEMAN" ) but I have met folks who were over zealous, demeaning, and not scoutlike when correcting others in regards to uniforming. So I do understand why some folks do get upset as it is based upon their own expereinces.

      Like I said I've encountered the bad ones. Sometimes you can have fun with them . I remember when the Venturing shorts first came out a year after Venturing was created. In the council I was in at the time, folks were still wearing the green shorts and pants because they wanted the "official" version ( despite venturing nor requiring the "official version." Anyway I got a hold of the official version asn was wearing them, when one of the bad UPs came out. WELL let's just say he got real embarrased after screaming at me form across a field about not wearing the official green pants or shorts, and I infomred him that I was wearing hte new venturing shorts that just became available that week. He turned bright red in embarrassment.

      Again the key to informing folks on uniforms is be polite, courteous and diplomatic,.


      • #18
        Something else to be corrected in this thread:
        "At the troop meeting last night the scout that attended last week's NYLT had me sign off on his "goals". He gave me an envelope with his NYLT patch with a letter from the Course Director explaining that the scout should be given the patch when he completes his goals and that he should wear it about the right pocket." and
        "But COURSE DIRECTORS should know better."
        Nowhere in the NYLT program syllabus is there anything referring to goals. Yes, some councils have the participants set goals a/k/a write a ticket however, even though NYLT parallels WB21C a ticket or goals are not a part of the program. OA NLS has a goal commitment but it is not a part of NYLT.
        COURSE DIRECTORS should know better.


        • #19

          You are correct about the goals, it is another of my complaints about the local program. The third issue I have is that the program is not the full 6 days. It starts the morning of Day 1 and ends the morning of Day 5 which means a little over a day is cut. So far I have not been able to get an answer on what has been cut.


          • #20
            If I get a chance I'll go thru the 6 day syllabus and the 5 day syllabus and look for what is missing. My son just staffed NYLT here and has a copy of both.

            From a quick check it looks like there is less "down time" for reflection and sinking in of what you learned. there really isn't much free time/down time/not someone in your face talking or teaching something to you with a shortened 5 day program.

            of course the program was shortened to 5 days instead of 6 so LDS scouts don't have to stay overnight on a sunday or saturday night.

            as to the writing of a "ticket" that seems to be something done locally and I'm not sure why. I'll ask the recent course director if I get a chance.
            I'll also ask why they are wearing their patches above the pocket.


            • #21
              Stupid question, but here it goes.

              Since NYLT is no longer suppose to have any references to Boy Scouts, i.e. CD not SM, no longer referred to as a troop, etc, will national be changing the patch design since it contains the 3 bars of an SPL in the emblem?


              • #22
                I'm hoping the patch doesn't change.

                The consensus from adults running NYLT locally is that it should be two separate events for the crew leadersship and boy scouts because otherwise too much of the info is lost by trying to translate from scoutmaster, patrols, etc to what works for crews.

                I would hope that national would listen to the people actually running the program and try to make that kind of adjustment rather than ditching all the references to boy scouts to try to make NYLT cater to all units.

                We are talking training for boy scouts starting at about 13 or 14 years old. some of them will understand the word changes still mean patrol or scoutmaster or troop guides, but some of them it's all gonna go right over their heads.


                • #23
                  "The consensus from adults running NYLT locally is that it should be two separate events for the crew leadersship and boy scouts because otherwise too much of the info is lost by trying to translate from scoutmaster, patrols, etc to what works for crews."

                  While I think many would agree that would be a better idea, don't expect that to happen anytime soon.

                  I recommended they do the same for WB, but I was attacked as a horrible person who obviously wants to prevent non-Boy Scout leaders from taking WB for proposing such an idea....

                  So obviously you are a horrible person for wanting to deny NYLT for Venturers...


                  • #24
                    Just heard back from the volunteer in charge. It looks like the goal requirement is based on the Developing a Personal Vision Work Sheet from Day 6. The form is the same with the addition of a place for the scout and the unit leader to sign added to the second page.

                    He says the 5-Day is made from taking the 2 weekends format and putting it all together. Granted that makes it 6 days and only 4 nights, so I'm still not sure where that helps all that much. Still missing a day. He claims it comes from eliminated down time.

                    Regarding the patch, he says this is where they were told to have it worn at the area training for the course directors.(This message has been edited by jet526)


                    • #25
                      Regarding the patch, he says this is where they were told to have it worn at the area training for the course directors.

                      *** That's an understandable answer, and totally incorrect. It's a wonderful example of how "I heard it at NYLT (or WB)" or "I saw a staff member wear it there (at NYLT or WB)."
                      And this is exactly why trainers and staff members need to model it correctly.


                      • #26
                        regarding the goals

                        The Staff Guide specifically states (2011, p. 22):
                        "Many NYLT courses have created a process for the participants to take the
                        teaching from their NYLT experience back home to the unit by encouraging them to
                        write a simple commitment or statement of goals to take home. This is allowed
                        but is not required for any participant to graduate or to wear any recognition
                        for having attended NYLT."


                        • #27
                          I sent him more information and he wrote back that is was good and he would bring it up at the next council training committee meeting.


                          • #28
                   states (among many other things), "Members should make every effort to keep their uniforms neat and uncluttered." I have many things that I've earned in Scouting that I'd love to show off, but only a few things go on the uniform -- mostly the things on the uniform are about the same for everyone. The uniforms aren't a brag vest, where you show off everything you've ever earned. Some awards go on swim trunks, some are actually sewn on equipment, some go on the uniform, most are just left at home.

                            It's not a uniform police thing, or a desire to squash other people's fun. I mean, I don't wear the proper uniform all the time either. For instance, if you're not wearing the scout uniform, you're not supposed to wear a Scout hat, but occasionally I do wear my hat with normal clothes.

                            "Consider displaying temporary insignia in ways other than on the official uniform. Here are some suggestions:
                            "Wear it on a BSA red patch vest, campfire robe or blanket, or special neckerchief.
                            "Display it on a wall plaque, trophy hide, or mounted in a frame.
                            "Or, make a special neckerchief slide, sectional totem pole, or flagpole insignia for display."

                            Whatever floats your boat though.


                            • #29
                              my son has not done NYLT and I don't know if he will - though I would like him to, it's his choice. But if he does I know it is a temporary patch, but you can only wear 1 temporary patch at a time and I know he's been saving that spot for his philmont patch he'll get next month. So if he decided to do NYLT he'd have to pick between those 2 major patches just doesn't seem right. And since he's looking into going to the 2013 Jamboo then that spot would be filled too.

                              another question... I know once you turn 18 you wear adult uniform and no youth insignia - does that include temporary patches? He'll turn 18 at the beginning of his senior year and is looking forward to being an ASM for that year and I'll be getting him a new uniform and decking it out for his adult role, but wondering if he'd still be able to wear his jambo patch and his philmont patch?


                              • #30
                                Yes. He can still wear his temporary patches.