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  • #31

    I know BP can defend himself, but I can tell you, and others on this board too I bet, that an SE can heavily influence who is on the committee, and how they operate despite what is written. If an SE doen't inform those who are suppose to sit on the board, that can be seen as influenceing the board. If an SE has challenges with a board member, he can influence the nominating committee to not renominate them, not use them on committees, or just ignore them. Unfortunately I have seen it first hand.

    Another aspect, one I encountered personally, is that some adults do not view youth and young adults as capable of serving in a committee member capacity. I was a 21 y.o. Chapter Adviser serving on a district committee, and I had several folks who stated I didn't know what I was doing, I was too young to be on the committee, I was a puppet of the LA, etc. Favorite complaint was from a committee member who also was a SM who cursed me out and stated I don't know anything about the OA (As a yute I was on the lodge exec committee and recieved Vigil), because I followed procedure and would not remove the name of someone elected whom he signed off on before the election. After the election, he was ticked that the scout was elected, wanted me to remove him, and I said "No." Not a pretty sight.


    • #32
      Sure, there's informal influence, pressure, politics, etc. What I want to know is what document says an SE dictates who serves on what committees. If the SE can just stack the committees with hand-picked people, where's the oversight and independence?


      • #33
        For shortridge: Source OA Handbook under Organization, "Annually the Scout Executive appoints a volunteer as lodge adviser in consultation with the chair of the council camping committee and lodge chief. The lodge adviser assists the Scout Executive in guiding the operation of the lodge program and SERVES AS A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL CAMPING COMMITTEE." Nowhere in any of my scout literature from National training or volunteer training or any of my BSA pub's does it state that the lodge chief is a voting member of the council camping committee. The handbook further states that the chief with the lodge camping promotion committee, "develops plans for camp promotion in consultation with the camping committee." Nowhere is there mention of membership in or voting privileges for any OA youth officer.

        In all the councils I have been associated with this is the way it has always been done and is currently being done in my current council. So if this is not correct then all five councils are wrong and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, including the National BSA site.


        • #34

          Once again official national publications contradict each other. What else is new.

          To answer your question, there is none. But I know of one SE that did just that: use his influence to to hand pick "yes men." And I have heard of it happening elsewhere.


          • #35
            Can the officers just drop there troop numerals and position patch but keep the red/green loops?


            • #36
              If they are wearing the older Lodge Chief POR patch, then they donot wear unit numbers, unit POR patch, and wear the SILVER loops.

              If they weay wear district committee or lodge committee patches, ditto above, no unit numbers and silver loops.


              • #37
                Okay, here's the deal.

                The Lodge Chief can, but does not necessarily, serve as a member of the Council Camping Committee. For example, my Council asks the lodge chief to serve as one of two allowed youth representatives to the Council Executive Board. There is no definitive method for where the Lodge Chief can serve--while the National OA Committee suggests that he serve as a member of the Camping Committee, this is a case of "If the local system works fine, Irving isn't likely to interfere."

                If, and only if, the Lodge Chief is asked to serve anywhere at the Council level, such as on the two positions I mentioned, he should wear silver shoulder loops, no unit numerals, and the council-level POR patch for the position he's serving in (after filling out an adult registration form). He should continue to maintain a uniform for unit wear, and wear that uniform when he is functioning outside of his Lodge Chief responsibilities (so, second uniform shirt suggested). This unit uniform should reflect his current status within the unit, including unit numerals, a unit POR patch, and olive/blaze loops (for troop/team, respectively).

                (Interesting fact: there are no OA National Chief or National Vice Chief POR patches, nor do they particularly like the Lodge Chief patches. See here for an explanation:

                If the Lodge Chief is not asked to serve at the Council level (rare, but it does happen), he should continue to wear the unit insignia with olive/blaze loops, even while functioning as Lodge Chief, as an Arrowman's first responsibility is to his unit.

                As previously mentioned, only regional officers and local council professional staffers wear the region insignia, so the lodge chief is not permitted to wear this piece of cloth. Generally, the only OA youth allowed to wear this is the Region Chief, as all Regions allow the Region Chief to serve on the Region Committee.

                The above standards hold true for Chapter Chief, provided you replace Council with District at the appropriate spaces.(This message has been edited by jdbsa05)