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  • #31

    I know BP can defend himself, but I can tell you, and others on this board too I bet, that an SE can heavily influence who is on the committee, and how they operate despite what is written. If an SE doen't inform those who are suppose to sit on the board, that can be seen as influenceing the board. If an SE has challenges with a board member, he can influence the nominating committee to not renominate them, not use them on committees, or just ignore them. Unfortunately I have seen it first hand.

    Another aspect, one I encountered personally, is that some adults do not view youth and young adults as capable of serving in a committee member capacity. I was a 21 y.o. Chapter Adviser serving on a district committee, and I had several folks who stated I didn't know what I was doing, I was too young to be on the committee, I was a puppet of the LA, etc. Favorite complaint was from a committee member who also was a SM who cursed me out and stated I don't know anything about the OA (As a yute I was on the lodge exec committee and recieved Vigil), because I followed procedure and would not remove the name of someone elected whom he signed off on before the election. After the election, he was ticked that the scout was elected, wanted me to remove him, and I said "No." Not a pretty sight.


    • #32
      Sure, there's informal influence, pressure, politics, etc. What I want to know is what document says an SE dictates who serves on what committees. If the SE can just stack the committees with hand-picked people, where's the oversight and independence?


      • #33
        For shortridge: Source OA Handbook under Organization, "Annually the Scout Executive appoints a volunteer as lodge adviser in consultation with the chair of the council camping committee and lodge chief. The lodge adviser assists the Scout Executive in guiding the operation of the lodge program and SERVES AS A MEMBER OF THE COUNCIL CAMPING COMMITTEE." Nowhere in any of my scout literature from National training or volunteer training or any of my BSA pub's does it state that the lodge chief is a voting member of the council camping committee. The handbook further states that the chief with the lodge camping promotion committee, "develops plans for camp promotion in consultation with the camping committee." Nowhere is there mention of membership in or voting privileges for any OA youth officer.

        In all the councils I have been associated with this is the way it has always been done and is currently being done in my current council. So if this is not correct then all five councils are wrong and I have yet to see any evidence to the contrary, including the National BSA site.


        • #34

          Once again official national publications contradict each other. What else is new.

          To answer your question, there is none. But I know of one SE that did just that: use his influence to to hand pick "yes men." And I have heard of it happening elsewhere.


          • #35
            Can the officers just drop there troop numerals and position patch but keep the red/green loops?


            • #36
              If they are wearing the older Lodge Chief POR patch, then they donot wear unit numbers, unit POR patch, and wear the SILVER loops.

              If they weay wear district committee or lodge committee patches, ditto above, no unit numbers and silver loops.


              • #37
                Okay, here's the deal.

                The Lodge Chief can, but does not necessarily, serve as a member of the Council Camping Committee. For example, my Council asks the lodge chief to serve as one of two allowed youth representatives to the Council Executive Board. There is no definitive method for where the Lodge Chief can serve--while the National OA Committee suggests that he serve as a member of the Camping Committee, this is a case of "If the local system works fine, Irving isn't likely to interfere."

                If, and only if, the Lodge Chief is asked to serve anywhere at the Council level, such as on the two positions I mentioned, he should wear silver shoulder loops, no unit numerals, and the council-level POR patch for the position he's serving in (after filling out an adult registration form). He should continue to maintain a uniform for unit wear, and wear that uniform when he is functioning outside of his Lodge Chief responsibilities (so, second uniform shirt suggested). This unit uniform should reflect his current status within the unit, including unit numerals, a unit POR patch, and olive/blaze loops (for troop/team, respectively).

                (Interesting fact: there are no OA National Chief or National Vice Chief POR patches, nor do they particularly like the Lodge Chief patches. See here for an explanation:

                If the Lodge Chief is not asked to serve at the Council level (rare, but it does happen), he should continue to wear the unit insignia with olive/blaze loops, even while functioning as Lodge Chief, as an Arrowman's first responsibility is to his unit.

                As previously mentioned, only regional officers and local council professional staffers wear the region insignia, so the lodge chief is not permitted to wear this piece of cloth. Generally, the only OA youth allowed to wear this is the Region Chief, as all Regions allow the Region Chief to serve on the Region Committee.

                The above standards hold true for Chapter Chief, provided you replace Council with District at the appropriate spaces.(This message has been edited by jdbsa05)


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Eagle92 View Post
                  1) WELCOME TO THE FORUMS!

                  2) For Lodge and Chapter Chief's, yes they can wear Silver loops, but no on the regional patch. According to the Guide to Officers and Advisers

                  The lodge adviser and lodge chief are members of the council camping or Boy Scout committee, and chapter advisers and their chiefs become members of their respective district committees.

                  So if your Lodge Chief can find one of the old Lodge Chief POR Patches that came out in 1993 or 1994, he can wear that without the unit numbers and silver loops. I also know of LCs wearing repros of them too (the patch came out of Supply without approval, so they had to destroy whatever inventory they had left. Lost of folks were buying them up when the word came out). If you can't find an old LC patch, the a Council Committee patch is available. Be advised they are restricted, and I will tell you that staff will look at you funny and question a youth getting that patch. But yes it is authorized

                  National never made a Chapter Chief Patch (although a Chapter Adviser one exists ?!?!?!?!) so he would need to wear a District Committee Patch. Ditto the strange looks and questioning. Also be ready for some adults to look at him funny and question not only why he's there, but why he has a vote on the committee.

                  Regional patches are restricted to employees, regional level Scouts, Venturers, and Scouters. Sea Scouts don't wear regional insignia. Only time you see Scouters wearing regional patches not in a regional POR is at Jambo.

                  This topic is a mire of what was, what is, and what's intended. I'm take things in reverse order, what's intended:

                  Youth OA offices do not count as a POR for advancement, and as such do not have office patches. If you obtain one of the old officer patches, or a custom one, they are worn as a temp patch.

                  A youth's primary registration is to a unit, and his loops should indicate his primary registration.

                  Region patches (correction of above) are work by professionals, those with region responsibilities, and/or at not only Jambo, but also NOAC. Regions have been asked to discontinue production of shoulder patches, and move to temp patches.

                  What is: Many Youth OA officers wear silver or gold loops if they serve on an appropriate committee. Many youth purchase custom office patches. Many NOAC/Jambo attendees continue wearing region insignia after the event.

                  The skinny on this - If a youth is wearing silver or gold loops it should be on a uniform that has the committee POR patch, and no unit numbers; this uniform should only be work when acting in that capacity. OA youth office patches may be worn as a temp patch only; the OA Rep is a unit POR and goes on the left sleeve. Technically, region patches come off after NOAC or Jambo, unless the person in question has region responsibilities.

                  What was: At one time region patches were worn by anyone who had been a delegate at a national event; no youth today was given a region patch under this policy. There was a limited number of official Lodge Chief POR patches made, but BSA actually officially reversed it's policy on these being worn as a POR patch, and regardless of uniform, may not be worn on the left sleeve. Silver and gold loops are restricted, always have been, and may never be worn on a uniform with unit numbers or a unit level POR patch.