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  • #16
    NCS training actually seems to be fairly uncommon among adults, which is why I posted it here; I thought most people wouldn't know about it.


    • #17
      Anyone who serves as a director at most summer camps are required to go to NCS. Some Director spots require NCS certified folks, i.e. COPE, Swiming, Shooting Sports, etc and some do not, i.e. Chaplain, Camp Commissioner, etc.

      I had both times at NCS, COPE and CSDC. Just wondering where I can get another Cub Scout NCS patch.


      • #18
        I did NCS for Outdoor Skills Directors, at Hawk Mountain, Pa., in 1998. With one or two exceptions, everyone in the program could have taught the bulk of the course. I did pick up a few neat skills and tricks, but the real value came from the informal conversations with my counterparts about their camps, program offerings, etc.

        The time - a solid week - and cost really make it impractical for use as a unit leader skills program. I think most councils would be well served running a series of Saturday workshops on different skills throughout the year. That way a Coast Guard lieutenant commander doesn't have to waste his time "learning" knots, for example.


        • #19
          " I think most councils would be well served running a series of Saturday workshops on different skills throughout the year"

          Long time ago there used to be something like this called Show An Do or "Showando" as I heard it pronounced once. It was a day long event where people demonstrated Scout Skills for adults then the adults got a chance to actually practice the skill. I can't remember when it stopped, maybe back in the 90's.


          • #20
            You know, I bet there'd be some interest in having various modules taught at Roundtable. I'll bring that up at my local Roundtable on the 6th. There wouldn't be any additional certification that people could earn, but people might be interested in getting more practice in knots, splicing, etc.


            • #21
              I could have sworn that if you needed T-2-1 skills (pioneering, knife/ax, lashing, knots, etc.) those were skills specifically addressed in IOLS (Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills) - a local course - required for Scoutmasters, Assistant Scoutmasters, Varsity Coaches and Assistants.

              We also taught most of these in the old Scoutmaster Fundamentals class (which was one course, covering both classroom and campout).

              Honestly, I have told many new ASM to get a copy of an old BS Handbook (late 60s, early 70s) and "work" the requirements for T-2-1 - and get a copy of the Fieldbook from the same era. Just takes a little practice to learn the same skills.


              • #22
                They are addressed in IOLS. IOLS is only a weekend, though, and some people are looking for a week-long outdoor skills session like the original Wood Badge.


                • #23
                  I got BSALT, IOLS and NCS/NDCS (National Day Camp School) Range-, Program- and Camp Director.

                  Looking for BASIC skills at NCS is wrong.

                  How to set up a pack/troop camp site you should learn at IOLS (if you didnt learn it as a youth in scouts ...)

                  NCS is for DIRECTORS, so advanced and not basic.

                  I learned a lot for camps and programms for more than 100 or 200 scouts.

                  It is not the job of the Program Director to actually teach anything but to organize the teachers and curriculum.
                  Of course you should know the backpacking and cooking 101 that you expected others to teach, so if need be
                  you can show the Merit Badge Counselors or whatever. You need to know the requierments for the badges and
                  the adults who have the skills to pass them on.

                  The NCS folder we got is the size of a big city phone book, no kidding. Talking about BSA regulations and stuff.

                  I can only advise anyone willing to take it one step further to go to NCS. Well worth the time (and I spent more on travel to "camp" than the actual course cost).


                  • #24
                    What about powder horn. That seems like a skills course.



                    • King Ding Dong
                      King Ding Dong commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Seems like an HA overview course to me, not a in depth skills course. It sounds Interesting and fun but $250 is steep.

                      This page has links to more information on the St. Louis one next year.


                    • Basementdweller
                      Basementdweller commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Powder horn is to allow Venture crew advisors to learn how to conduct or plan a trip....

                      You are not taught any skills, but how to find people with skills to do your program.

                      I did powder horn a couple of years ago.....It was scouting without the boys....It was fun, had a good time, met some great people....

                      Learn anything, not so much.....

                  • #25
                    So I went digging thrue storage. Wont copy the entire thing (1,000 pages LOL) but wanted to add some bullets points: a bit out of order, sorry. Any specific questions just ask ^o^
                    BSA Northeast Region
                    National Camping School
                    Cub Scout Camping

                    -Camp Health and Safety (64 pages)
                    -Day Camp Administration (130 pages)
                    -National Standards for local council precamp and operational accreditation of cub scout/webelos scout day camp (12 pages)
                    -Outdoor Program Guidelines (8+12 pages)
                    -Annual Health and Medical Record -Belt Loops/Pin Certification
                    -Cub Outdoor Activity Award/National Summer Time Pack Award
                    -Campfire Program
                    -Fireguard Plan
                    -Safety Afloat/Safe Swim Defense/Safety Afloat Training Outline
                    -Duty to God
                    -Cub Scout Character Development -
                    age appropriate guidelines for scouting activites
                    -Scouts with Disabilites and Special Needs
                    -OSHA laws that affect camps and conferences
                    -Leave no Trace
                    -Cub Scout Visitation Team Training Guide (administrative guide for local councils)
                    -case study workbook Day Camp Administration -Camp Program Ideas (81 pages)
                    -Guide to Safe Scouting, unit leaders guide for current policies and procedures (80 pages)
                    -Day Camp Staff Training (45 pages)
                    -Camp Program & Property Management (probably 200 pages)
                    -Shooting Sports for Cub Scouts (52 pages) -administrative guide cub camps, (55 pages)
                    -budget sheets, cash receipts, check request,
                    -Unit and Event Log

                    That, in a nutshell, is NCS/NDCS.
                    I think the cost was not much at all, considerung so much paper and all the food was included.
                    Learned a bunch and met a bunch of cool scouters - what more do you want to ask for?
                    Last edited by berliner; 09-25-2013, 06:58 PM. Reason: format


                    • King Ding Dong
                      King Ding Dong commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Qwazse, any background on that ? Some pools the guards are a little whistle happy and it diminishes its effectiveness. You still need a method of alerting the down guards to issues. I haven't seen the BSA use turtles or other electronic alerts.

                    • berliner
                      berliner commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Took it in 2010 and some copies where from 2008 so in 2013 some might be outdated yes.

                    • Twocubdad
                      Twocubdad commented
                      Editing a comment
                      Now the just give you a jump drive with everything on it. The course syllabus was overhauled about two years ago and sorta shoe-horned into the new camp standards last year. Of course some of the publications which are distributed are updated that often but then some are.

                  • #26
                    Originally posted by Eagle732 View Post
                    COPE, Climbing and how to run a camp. All nice skills to have but that does that teach the skills that make a better Scoutmaster?

                    What were the outdoors/scout skills that the old Woodbadge taught?
                    Before "leadership skills," the purpose of Wood Badge was to train Scoutmasters to how teach the best Patrol Leaders how to physically lead their Patrols into the backwoods. Scouts learned their skills from a "Patrol" Leader, not a "Troop" Guide!

                    Here is a Wood Badge participant's official "Wood Badge Training Notebook" from William "Green Bar Bill" Hillcourt's Wood Badge:



                    • berliner
                      berliner commented
                      Editing a comment
                      great link, thanks a lot :-)

                    • Nike
                      Nike commented
                      Editing a comment
                      This was a really interesting comment on our culture as well. How much of those hand written notes and sketches are now simply distributed as a hand out or on a CD/USB? Or worse, "Just go the"

                  • #27
                    This story is so sad but it is true:
                    we spent time talking about the rule that no scouts are to be carried on the outside of vehicles,
                    as in not hanging on the (out)side the SUV/Jeep and standing on the side step/floorboards, sitting in the open pick up cargo space without seatbelts
                    and my favourite which is outlawed by BSA but I have seen this done in another country
                    towing scouts in tailers.

                    This is not Woodbadge material. Campfire story maybe.
                    Seems BSA got sued so often for scouts not following safety rules let alone common sense and falling off or out of vehicles while driving,
                    and some scouters led the way.

                    Getting one Troop to a site is one thing, moving around an entire camp something completely different.

                    Teaching Woodbadge skills to 20-30 boys is a big difference to teaching basic skills to 400 boys or 2,000 scouts.

                    Thats where the BSA is a lot like the army: the larger the camp the larger the logistics and admins.
                    More geeks and nerds runnging around with clip boards. And whistles. ^o^