punishment...?

[Lisabob 13]

I'm with Eamonn that dumping this into the lap of the PLC could be a problem. I watched that happen in my son's troop after some considerable behavioral issues took place at summer camp this year, and the result was undesirable. The feeling of many adults was that an issue of sufficient gravity to require disciplinary follow-up is probably an adult matter, and that failure to deal with it at the adult level looked suspiciously like the adults were punting. As you might imagine, this perception of adults abdicating responsibility went over badly with the parents of all involved (including some PLC members who felt it had been dumped on them out of the blue with no clear guidelines) and resulted in some angry phone calls. Not good for anybody.

 

Watching this mess unfold, I concluded that:

1) If you expect your youth leaders to deal with disciplinary situations, you'd better provide clear expectations and guidelines for punishment up front/before hand, you'd better make sure everyone in the troop knows you actually mean it in advance, and you'd better train your youth leaders to handle these situations. Dumping it on them unexpectedly is unfair to them, as well as to the youth who stand accused.

2) Whether this is the SM's or Committee's job is, perhaps, a debatable point but there needs to be communication and hopefully agreement between these parties, before, during, and after the matter is handled. A CC who tells people "hey that's the SM's job" and an SM who tells people "hey that's the PLC's job" isn't going to instill confidence or trust in anybody.

3) Anything that looks like punting or sweeping under the rug won't go over well and will cause problems down the road.

4) Keep the parents in the loop. If my kid does something he shouldn't and it is serious enough to require disciplinary review of some sort, I expect to hear about it - promptly - from the adult leaders. Failure to communicate about problems and how they're being handled will maximize the likelihood of having angry people call you when some decision - any decision - is made about how to deal with the problems.

5) Sometimes you have to decide who you want to keep in the troop. It would be nice to think that all parties involved would deal with their concern or anger in a reasonable manner, but we all know that's not always the case. So if you know that you're going to anger some family/families to the point where they may quit, who are you more willing to lose? The kid who causes the problems or the kids who are on the receiving end of the poor behavior? Because I guarantee you, Beavah is right that the "good" kids are watching you just as closely as the "problem" kids to see how you respond and whether you mean it when you talk about the Scout Law and Oath.

 

(ETA: I should add, in our case, the results of a botched approach included 1 boy quitting, several more thinking seriously about quitting, and at least 1 boy outspokenly stating his loss of trust in the judgment of the adults who, he felt, didn't "get it." That's among the boys. Among adults, we lost an ASM and a committee member, lingering bad feelings among several parents, and another parent states that they no longer want their child to have conversations with any adult leaders for which a parent is not present. Yikes, none of that is good.)(This message has been edited by lisabob)

[SMT224 10]

Eamonn & Lisabob - Good Advice! Thanks. Transparency seems critical here.

 

I'm inclined to recommend that this Scout be suspended from the next several camping trips. But I feel like he should do some more than simply not go on camping trips, as he probably goes on every third of fourth camping trip anyway, and missed summer camp last year. Something more than just taking something away he may not be that interested in anyway. Like a kind of restorative justice I guess...

 

 

[TwoXForr 10]

I am curious, in your orginal post it led me to believe his parents were aware of the theft, what has been thier reaction, and other involvement with the troop.

[SMT224 10]

Update...

 

Have been away at a Scouting event, so have not been able to get on the computer until today...

 

This situation is even stranger than I originally reported. It turns out the Moms of the two Scouts got together and did an exchange of the iPod. The Mom of the Scout who stole the iPod has apparently not told his Dad as he recently got laid off, and she is afraid he will take it out on the kid. So how to get parental involvement when the Dad is being kept out of the loop? Add to this that the thief gave back the iPod, but kept the ear phones, which has the iPod Mom pissed as she has just bought them at $30. She now wants me to get her son's ear phones back. The thief has not been back to a Troop meeting since this all occurred, so I have not had a chance to talk to him. On top of this is that the Dad is a registered adult leader in the Troop, but only goes on 1 or 2 outings a year, and shows up to Troop meetings very randomly. What am I supposed to say next time he shows up - "Your son has been suspended, but you're not to know why."?????

 

The stealing of the iPod was bad enough, but keeping the ear phones really irks me and I feel like recommending a year-long suspension to see if he can grow up some. I know that is extreme and will likely result in him not ever coming back. But, maybe not such a bad thing, as no one wants to tent with him now.

 

What a mess!

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I think one of da things that we all learn to eventually accept as scouters is that we're not responsible for family dynamics or poor parenting, eh? We are only responsible for our own actions and choices on behalf of da program.

 

If mom wants to keep secrets, that's up to her, eh? You should not keep secrets or change your behavior, though.

 

I also get really, really leery when parents try to fix things "behind the scenes" like this, eh? Seen it blow up into adult wars on more than one occasion. Also doesn't do anything to help the other lads learn. Always best for scouters to respond quickly on behalf of da program. Conference required at the very next meetin' if not sooner. Justice needs to be fair and swift for everyone's sake.

 

For where you're at now SMT224, the lad will never be accepted by his peers in the troop if he doesn't make full restitution, includin' the ear buds, in a way they at least might believe is truly contrite. If there's no avenue to get there, he's lost. Even if you are able to achieve that, yeh probably don't want to set a precedent that stealin' something gets you a private tent! Leastways, not unless yeh do a lot of backpacking and your tents weigh 20 lbs. each .

 

How you proceed just depends now on what yeh know of the lad and the adult associations yeh have in place. If there is a man who the boy truly looks to in the troop, who is willin' and has the time to make this boy a project, then maybe yeh have a shot. Pretty clear that he's not goin' to get anything out of scouting without that kind of attention (includin' picking the boy up for meetings, etc.). That may be a real work of mercy for this lad, given his challenges, eh? But first, he's got to come completely clean with that scouter's help. If yeh don't have any man who is that tight with the lad, I think there's only one way this ends up.

 

B

 

[Eamonn 61]

As ever I'm confused.

Is the Father who is an adult leader the Father of the Lad who had his ipod taken or the Father of the Lad who stole it?

Eamonn.

[SMT224 10]

Update #2

 

I just had a call from a Committee member who strongly believes this is not something for the Committee to take up, and should be handled by the Scoutmaster. This Committee member further stated that the way I should handle it is to have the kid stand up in front of the Troop and apologize (in addition to returning the head phones).

[SMT224 10]

Eamonn -

 

I'm feeling pretty confused at the moment too!

 

The Father I referred to who is an adult leader (and apparently is out of the loop) is the Father of the Scout who stole the iPod.

 

[evmori 11]

Guess the committee member hasn't been to training! This is exactly the committee's job! It sounds to me like they want to pass it off on the Scoutmaster to be the heavy! If I was the Scoutmaster & they wanted to do this to me I would demand freedom in how I handled the situation, demanded the committee's 100% backing & I would be the one to handle ALL Scout discipline in the future with the 100% backing of the committee! If they don't agree to this then it is all theirs!

 

Ed Mori

1 Peter 4:10