Scouts who don't want to be in Scouting

[wildhog 10]

Hello again everybody. My Troop is getting ready to gear up again now that the school year is starting. I want to hit the ground running and get off to a good start but I would like to hear from you about three of my Scouts.

 

I have three Scouts who do not want to be Boy Scouts. I will call them Scout1, Scout2, and Scout3. They are all going into 8th grade and attend the same school.

 

Scout1 does the bare minimum to advance but he participates and I see him as a good asset to the Troop. He is a good kid but the only reason he is in Scouting is because of his father. Dad is enthusiastic about Scouting, enjoyed his experience as a Scout, but has absolutely no idea how to interact with the Scouts and is a constant source of embarrassment for Scout1. He was also the WEBELOS Den Leader for all three boys.

 

Scout2 comes to meetings and seems to have a good time. I haven't heard him complain but he has told his parents that he wants to quit. I recently got his father involved as the ASM for first year Scouts. Scout2 went on our high adventure with his dad this last summer and I think generally has a good time.

 

Scout3 does not want to be a Boy Scout and constantly reminds everyone of that. He has stated to the other Scouts that his mom makes him come. Often he half-heartedly participates and can be counted on to be sitting off to the side when everyone is participating in an activity. For one outing last year he was planning to buy the food for his patrol but when he found out that Scout1 and Scout2 were not coming he refused to buy food and tried to get out of the outing. His parents made him come and he refused to ride in the van with the rest of his patrol; instead he rode with the first year Scouts and his father was driving. This last summer camp started off the same way but then he became more engaged when the older Scouts helped him with some advancement. His brother is a first year Scout and is the complete opposite; actually practicing knots at home so he would be ready to tie them at a meeting.

 

Whenever these three Scouts are together on an outing they are inseparable; if Scout3 is not present then the other two will interact with the rest of the Troop otherwise these three form their little clique. I know from talking with parents that their grade at school has some major issues; there are the "cool" kids and then the rest. This seems to be reinforced by the "cool" parents. The "cool" kids have made it clear that Scouting is not cool and I believe that this attitude is spilling over into the Troop.

 

Have any of you dealt with a situation like this? This has been one of my biggest challenges as Scoutmaster.

 

Thanks

 

Wildhog

[Gunny2862 11]

Wildhog, IMMHO,

It sounds to me like you may have three sales presentations to make.

 

Scout one just needs the standard pitch and a little Dad coaching about letting him have some independence when he is with his peers.

 

Scout two can probably take the same pitch, with the emphasis on how the little skills lead to the High Adventure trips.

 

Scout three needs a wake up call - will he really join the ranks of the "cool" kids if he leaves Scouting or will they just deride him even more because they now "know" that they can control him, only what will they try to take away next? If he is going to stay he needs to see that the "cool" kids aren't going camping, or doing the fun things that Scouts do and that they REALLY wish adults ACTUALLY cared about them regardless of how indifferent they act.

 

Actually all three of them could probably use a taste of Scout threes pitch.

 

Are they all Progressing normally for your troop - have they hit a snag corporately or individually? Is there another underlying issue or do you think it is the "cool" kids plus their group dynamic? Don't just think of the three of them by association, deal with each as an individual also.

 

Just my two cents; but I'm still new at this I'm sure you'll get input with more perspective.

[wildhog 10]

Thanks for the response Gunny.

 

We've had several people try to deal with Scout1's dad but I haven't seen any changes. He's trying to live through his son instead of letting Scout1 do his own thing. Dad was close to Eagle but never made it so now Scout1 is expected to succeed. I really get the impression that Scout1 is just doing his time to get to Eagle and then he will quit. It will probably come as no surprise that he has advanced further than the other two.

 

Scout3 is officially Second Class but has finished the requirements for First Class; he just needs his SM Conf and BOR. But I am hesitant to pass him off; on the one hand he's definitely not showing Scout Spirit most of the time but on the other hand there are times when he is really participating and having a good time.

 

The social structure at school is what bugs me the most. Scout3 is never going to be a leader (Scouting or otherwise) because he always falls into the pattern of following whoever the "cool" person is at the time. I'm sure when there aren't any uncool kids around that he gets picked on because of his follower mentality.

 

I've talked with Scout3's mom several times but the person that she describes is nothing like the boy who shows up for meetings and outings. I'd like to have the Scout3 from her house show up to a meeting at least once. I don't think his parents give very much discipline at home; I certainly have not seen any changes in his behavior after speaking with his parents. He certainly seems to have more leeway than some of the other boys his age.

 

I really think it's this is the school situation spilling over because we've had no problems with any other Scouts fitting into the Troop; it's just these three. And I think they need more guidance than a weekly Scout meeting can give them. I can't change what happens at school but I would like to prevent it from coming into the Troop. Compounding this is that whenever I talk to these boys they always tell me what they think I want to hear instead of being open.

 

 

Wildhog

 

 

[Gunny2862 11]

Well, it sounds like you have a clear idea of the dynamics going on here.

 

Are they the potential leadership of the troop - or people who will do their POR time just to get the advancement and then get out of the way as quickly as possible? And will you allow them to just do the time or will they have to do(and will they do) the job to get their POR time?

 

One more idea for Scout 1, if he is here and Dad is riding him about doing it anyway - then why shouldn't he try to get the things he wants out of the time he is going to spend anyway. Just because he gets the primary gain of getting his dad off of his back because he is advancing doesn't mean he can't get the secondary gain of having his own fun while doing Dad's chore. And maybe at some point he can reverse the order so that he is getting what he wants while having his Dad's satisfaction be the lesser gain.

 

As far as Scout 3 and being different by Mom's report at home than what you see at Scouting - my own son has some of that dynamic - not much but enough to make me realize that it is probably a very rare child who is always, who he is regardless of the situation.

 

You can't change their social environment at school but depending on the quality of your program and your skill at reframing what is cool for these boys you may be able to get them to realize the opportunity they get from Scouting that the "Cool" kids are missing out on.

[EagleInKY 14]

I've seen these boys, anyone else who has been around scouting very long have as well.

 

Gunny gave you some good advice. But the real harsh reality is that you have primarily one problem - scout #3. In my experience, when scout #3 leaves, the other two suddenly enjoy scouting much more. They seem like two that you can reason with. With #3 out of the picture, you can get them excited about advancement, leadership and high adventure.

 

I'd have the SM conference with #3 and explain to him your feelings. If he's bringing down the troop, refusing to shop for his patrol if his friends aren't there, etc., then you have a clear case of not living by the scout oath & law. You can use this to buy some time and see if he turns around. I have had to do that, and the results have been generally favorable.

 

The final thing, and Gunny mentioned this as well, is make sure you're doing the fun things that the guys will want to do and will be excited to tell their friends about.

[ASM59 10]

"Have any of you dealt with a situation like this?"

 

Yes, last night at our Troop meeting Billy came to the meeting to tell the adult leaders that he was quitting. He was a AOL cross-over last February and has just started the Sixth Grade. His mother told him that if he was not going to the meeting and he wanted to quit, that he owed an explanation to the leaders and that she was not going to be the one to tell us.

 

One of our other leaders, who went through Cubs with Billy since Tiger, went out to talk to him. Billy's reason; Scouts is boring and just not fun any more. Billy has been on every single outing since joining last February, and has had a blast at each outing. The adult leader talking to him began going over each outing and eventually got Billy to acknowledge that he did have fun in Scouting. He challenged Billy about not being truthful when he said that it was not fun anymore. Eventually, through tears, Billy admitted that the real reason was that his friends at School said, "Scouts is gay". So, it appears that peer pressure is the real reason that Billy wants to quit. Our leader challenged Billy to think about it for the next week or two before making a final decision. Billy was given a lot to think about over the next two weeks, including asking his friends to come to see how much fun Scouting can be.

 

Billy has not been one who acts like he doesnt want to be in Scouts, until School started up two weeks ago. Peer pressure seems to be one of the primary reasons for boys not wanting to continue in Scouts; IMHO

 

ASM59