AlFansome 10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 My Kiwanis Club is the CO for 4 units and as the only Scouter in the club, I'm the COR for those units. I just got an e-mail forwarded to me from our President. It came from out of the blue via our website from someone associated with a new pack. It reads: "We are starting a new Cub Scout Pack in xxxx and need a Charter partner. We are meeting at xxxx Elementary school and have our first official Pack meeting next week. We're off to a great start with 18 boys already! Because this is a new Pack, we are all doing this for the first time. Does your organization partner with Cub Scout's to help us charter?" The school mentioned is a brand new school in the district, so my assumption is that the DE has been driving the new unit creation and knows that we're a CO that geographically draws members from the entire area. He probably directed the pack to us. Would've been nice if the DE called me first (since he knows me) to let me know what was going on (assuming my assumption is correct). Now, obviously my first calls are to the DE to see what the heck is up and to the Council registrar to see how far along the paperwork is (if at all). If they don't have a CO, they don't have a charter and they don't have a unit. However, they look like they have leaders, a meeting location, and of course, boys. My club would be more than willing to be a CO for another unit, however from my personal perspective, I'll have some issues if none of the leaders are trained, if no one is registered, and if there's a bunch of stuff to get in order in a very short time. I'm not looking to go up the chain to complain to the FD or SE (at this point) since the DE's a good guy and I support his efforts, although I will certainly have a chat with the DE if my assumption is correct about the backwards process and his role in it. Thoughts, advice? Link to post Share on other sites
OldGreyEagle 5 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Does your group already charter a Cub Pack? Why would they charter another, and then again, what 4 units do you charter? Cubs, Boy Scout, Crew/Sea Scout Ship, Post, Varsity Team? So many questions Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Our club draws it's members from 3 towns with a total population of around 130,000 people. Those 3 towns make up the district. There are close to 70 units in the district and we charter 2 packs and 2 troops. Only one pack/troop combo has what you would call a feeder relationship since they meet at the same school. These relationships predate my joining the club 9 years ago. Since our club is large geographically, it makes sense for us to look at chartering units from all 3 towns, although the number and type of units can be debated. Our club is exclusively a community service club. We sponsor 4 Key Clubs (Kiwanis for high schoolers) along with chartering the 4 scout units. The "why?" of chartering is pretty clear to us.(This message has been edited by AlFansome) Link to post Share on other sites
scoutldr 739 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Without a signed charter agreement, the unit does not exist. Plain and simple. Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 Just got off the phone with the Registrar. All the paperwork is complete and finished including youth and adult apps ... except for the charter agreement (since there's no chartered partner yet). If my club decides not to charter the pack, then they'll just charter as "Parents of Pack xxx". It's possible they are also fishing around over at Rotary for a chartered partner as well. So, I guess it's up to our Board to decide if we want to charter another unit. Mission-wise, geographically, philosophically, it makes sense for us to do so, since that's what we do. Also, from a high level, based on my experience, it'd be better for the pack and the boys to have us charter then than to go the "Parents of.." route, for a variety of reasons. Link to post Share on other sites
DenZero 10 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 If your organization already is Chartered Org for a pack, won't this new pack draw members away from the pack you sponsor? By sponsoring them (even if only on paper), you are furthering the demise of the unit you already charter. I suspect the leaders of the existing pack won't be happy to hear your organization is chartering a competitor. Does your organization provide meeting space? If so, will you be able to handle to competition for meeting space? Or are the units on their own to find a place to meet? Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 4, 2009 Author Share Posted November 4, 2009 DenZero- Each pack we charter is based out of an elementary school and draws their boys only from that school for obvious practical reasons. In addition, our 2 current packs are 5 miles apart and the new pack is yet another 5 miles distant. During the course of travelling the 5 miles between any of our packs, you'd probably pass the meeting place of 1 or 2 other packs on your drive. We've got alot of density with 20+ packs within a 4 mile by 12 mile area (not even including the LDS units). Also, our school district has no problem allowing the packs to use their facilities, so a meeting place is not an issue, either. I talked to the DE earlier today and the pack literally has everything except a chartered org...they've got a UC, a meeting place, leaders all in place, a pack meeting next week, etc. So, it looks like we'll move forward with the charter assuming the pack leaders share our same outlook on the vision of what the pack will be (i.e. following the program appropriately, some community service projects, etc.)...still waiting to hear back from the adult volunteers. Link to post Share on other sites
SR540Beaver 116 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Back around 2004, a bunch of us with Webelos crossed to a Troop. Things didn't progress very well. Things got ugly. We all decided to leave since we were not appreciated and formed our own troop. We had a ready made troop with 5 adults and 6 boys. What we didn't have was a charter. We started off chartering ourselves as "parents of xxx" and went in search of a charter. The DE didn't really assist much until I finally found an interested chuch and then he went to a meeting with me and them and got the paperwork done. Sometimes it can and is done backwards. Link to post Share on other sites
Beavah 205 Posted November 4, 2009 Share Posted November 4, 2009 Sometimes it can and is done backwards. Yah, more than sometimes, eh? I reckon that it gets done "backwards" most of the time. AlFansome, it seems like yeh answered your own question. Da pack seems like a good fit for your CO in terms of its mission and geographic scope. Goin' up to 3 packs, one in each of your towns, and perhaps eventually 3 troops, would make for a really nice tie in with your mission, make for da possibility of some nice connections between your members and the units in each town, and fit well with da structure of your other youth work. Some nice synergies there, eh? And even da possibility of a really fun "Kiwanis Kampout" with all your units once a year. Now, da thing to really watch out for is that you are assumin' responsibility for the actions of this group of adults that you've not really met. That's not somethin' to do lightly. And since you're an active COR, I think yeh also owe it to them to sit with 'em and express your vision and expectations. How yeh set the thing up can avoid some conflict down the road, eh? Yeh might even want to "tweak" leadership assignments in the short run. Make sure they know at the beginnin' that this is a real partnership, and that you're goin' to act like a real CO. Then I'd say go for it. And give your Club an attaboy from us for their work on behalf of Scouting and da youth of America. Beavah Link to post Share on other sites
AlFansome 10 Posted November 5, 2009 Author Share Posted November 5, 2009 Beavah- Love the idea of a "Kiwanis Kampout"...definitely on my to-do list to start thinking about! In my initial written reply to the unit leader today, I laid out very clearly that we're not just an on-paper CO, spelled out what I expect of the unit leadership (training, community service, following the program, family participation), and also listed what Kiwanis can do for them...exactly what I'd say to leaders we'd recruit if we were starting a pack from scratch ourselves. I then extended an invite to have a sit down with them before we agree to charter the unit. The ball's in their court...if they want a partner in operating their pack (who will also exert influence as necessary), then they know my number. If not, I guess it's "Parents of Pack xxx" for them. For the good of the unit and the boys, hopefully they'll make the right decision. In actuality, jumping in with these leaders will actually be easier that what I've had to deal with with our other 4 units. For them, I took over as COR 3 years ago after a very long period of benign neglect. So, not only did I inherit leaders that I had never met, but I also inherited 4 distinct cultures that in some cases did not match our/my vision of what a unit should be. Still working on some issues there ... :-) Link to post Share on other sites
evmori 11 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 This sounds like one of those things a DE needs to do to get his bonus! Ya know, "Start xx number of new units" thing. Link to post Share on other sites
BrentAllen 10 Posted November 5, 2009 Share Posted November 5, 2009 AlFansome, My hat is off to you and the Kiwanis for not only chartering all those units, but for also setting high standards. That is the way Scouting should be done. Well done! Brent Allen Link to post Share on other sites
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