Learning from the Past

[Eamonn 61]

Having once earned my living teaching English history, I'm all for learning from the past.

I see nothing wrong with activities that were common in Scouting "Back in the day" -When ever that might have been.

 

But...

We do have to remember that the youth we serve are todays youth.

Like it or not they are not taught the same way that some of us older people were.

While many Scouts enjoy participating or visiting these old time activities many want to see what they are doing as being relevant to them. If they fail to see the relevance they tend to tune out.

These Scouts and many of their parents have been raised in an age of technologies, they not only expect it, but many demand it.

If we are not seen to be moving with the times, we will end up the same way as the Dodo bird.

Eamonn.

[Eagledad 2779]

So, how doe's tying knots and lashings build character?

 

Barry

[Bob White 20]

I'll take at stab at that. Knowing knots and lashings is a basic skill for fitness activities such as rock climbing and rappelling, it is used in several rescue situations and first aid applications, knots are part of several occuppations from surgeon to truck driver, the ability to lash together camping items such as pack racks and shelters builds self reliance, knots are used in many recreational activities such as sailing, and other water activities, knots are used for grooming activities such as tying a tie or your shoes, or teaching a child fine motor skills.

 

Unlike Morse Code most people today still use knots all the time.(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Lisabob 13]

I thought I had posted this previously but it doesn't appear to have shown up so I'll try again.

 

While true that morse code is not commonly used today, I would argue that learning to decipher codes of any kind, similar to doing puzzles of various sorts, is very good training for the mind. It teaches analytical skills, pattern recognition, and the ability to make sense of complex information, not to mention patience and perseverance. These are all skills that transfer (in some cases quite directly) into other more tangible areas of life, and particularly to school and work-related tasks (research skills, especially in the sciences; creative skills, especially finding new ways to solve problems; organizational skills, especially being able to manage large inflows of data, and a variety of others).

 

Some of you may laugh and say that's not direct enough. But then, it isn't really any more abstract than asking boys to learn to tie a timber hitch on the premise that knots can be tools for developing character or other life lessons - which I hear all the time when people talk about why knots are still important in a world where most people really do not know or need to know how to tie them, most of the time. (I'll grant that there are exceptions re: knots and Bob White has listed some - but realistically, if you survey 100 adults about what knots they use on a weekly basis, most will probably give you a blank look and wonder what the heck you are talking about).

 

Plus, puzzles and codes are fun and most boys seem to like the idea of being code breakers. So hey, if there are troops out there that want to work on semaphore and morse code and the like, more power to them. (On the other hand, these are not part of the advancement requirements any more and shouldn't be added as such today. But there's nothing wrong, as far as I can tell, with doing these for fun either.)

[OldGreyEagle 5]

Tieing knots is a skill, some knots look very complicated when first seen, and your first attempts on some knots can make you feel like you have 10 thumbs. But, when a scout who didnt know how to pronounce bowline can tie one blindfolded, it teaches the scout they can learn skills that seem impossible and learn them well. When faced with an unfamiliar situation, the youth can think, it looks hard, but I did learn to tie that bowline, so I can do this as well.

 

I am not sure how a traditional Liberal Arts Degree prepares one for life today other than it teaches you how to learn and think. I beleive scouting does the same

[evmori 11]

Mastering a skill builds confidence. This could lead to building character but not necessarily.

[Bob White 20]

And still....no one has said that learning Morse Code was a bad thing to do.

 

The problem here is that a sham was perpetrated on the forum members. You were convinced that I or others said that there was nothing of value you can learn from the past, and NO ONE ever said that here.

 

What was said was that many things from the past are still in the program, and other things can be done as well. Even one posters breakthrough "back form the past" idea of using staves to make a stretcher is on page 329 of the CURRENT Scout handbook and is a current rank requirement.

 

But I cannot imagine that anyone believes the EVERYTHING that was done in the past is worth doing again. If you do believe that then you have a very limited knowledge of the history of Scouting.

 

There are A LOT of things that were done in the "good old days" of Scouting that you would not want to even consider doing today.

 

You were tricked into believeing that today's scouting is bad and yester-years scouting is good and the fact is what we do today is largely what we have always done in scouting with minor changes to accomodate new knowledge and technology.

 

-... --- -... .-- .... .. - .

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[FScouter 24]

I don't think anyone has been fooled. Show of hands? Who's been tricked? It's kinda like a debate between the political candidates - lots of attempts at trickery, but who has really been fooled?

[Eagledad 2779]

Very few knots are practiced by the average person today. Even scouting is getting to be a tougher place to practice knots in this bungycord/velcro society. But teaching skills is not the vision of the BSA. The vision of scouting is to help boys guide their lives into becoming men who make moral decisions based from the oath and law. We do that by building the confidence to attack and overcome obstacles. All adults do is start them in these habits by giving them skills that in first glance look difficult or even a little scary. Even in the square knot the scout practices to set a goal, pursue the lesson and complete the mission by proving his skillmenship. While we don't use Morse code much these days, it is at first and even second glance a complicated if not scary to learn. But when one does master the skill, the confidence gained from it is huge. I know because I remember my struggles to master it quite well.

 

My PLC use to laugh at me on our March camp outs because I prayed for rain as we drove out to camp. I found that while we don't give it a second thought, new scouts can be pretty quiet thinking about setting up the tent in cold rainy dark. But once they get it done and realize how easy it was, well they are standing three feet off the ground for the rest of the week. And, strangely we got rain on our March camp outs more often then not.

 

Thinking on this, my motto to our JLTC staff was: "We are not here to teach, we are here to build confidence. With skills we can brag. But with confidence we can move mountains."

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

[Lisabob 13]

I'm afraid I just don't follow your logic about trickery there Bob White, or else I don't agree with you at any rate. If you think that people are that blindly led, well all I can say is it isn't my experience on this board. Scouters are a pretty independent-minded sort. And you know, sometimes people throw ideas or thoughts out there just to see where they go and how people respond.

 

 

[Bob White 20]

As a scoutmaster we traveled light but every scout carried about 50 ft of line and a 6ft stave. When they got to camp they built pack racks, cooking tripods, shelter whatever they needed because they knew how to use lines and lashings. tied new knots in their tent lines every campout. But camping technolgy advanced and soon bungee cords made knot tying almost obsolete.

 

Then several years later I entered Sea Scouting and we have a lot of Boys Scouts who have joined and they are amazed because they actually use the knots they had to learn as young scouts. We use clove hitches, sheet bends, tautlines, bowlines, back splices, eye splices, and others ALL the time. And they understand why you need different knots for different tasks and they can tie them fast.

 

Why, because they are put in situations where they need to know the skill or they will find themselves in a potentially dangerous situation. That lesson works in Boy Scouts to. Signalling is gone because there is little practical applisation for it, so that putting a scout in a situation were he needs to be able to signal is rare and usually unrealistic.

 

The best lesson you can learn from the past is "teaching by doing" the skills that are in today's program are skills that scouts will use in today's world. So put them in a situation where they need the knowledge, let them realize they lack a skill to overcome the hurdle, then they will be open to learning the skill, and they will want to practice it. That is how BP meant skills to be taught, that is the way the BSA teaches it today, and yet many leaders do not follow it.

 

(This message has been edited by Bob White)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, I agree with that, eh?! Or at least I can see that bein' a fine and dandy program choice.

 

So, BobWhite, are yeh in favor of droppin' the knots and lashings bit from T-2-1 this revision cycle, then?

[Bob White 20]

Not remove but perhaps it is time to re-evalute which knots are taught and show more current ways to apply them.

I do not expect the Handbook to have huge content changes in 2010 when it is released. The only time the BSA made huge changes between editions it did not go over well.

 

New packaging, as well as new graphics is almost certain. Some new requirements perhaps, Maybe a CD of skill demos would not be unexpected when you look at other teaching aids...oops sorry I forgot you don't see scouting as educational.

[Gold Winger 9]

"If the Scouts enjoyed a campout learning Morse Code using Myer Flags (the precursor to semaphore)"

 

If by Myer Flags you mean wig-wag, that wasn't the precursor to semaphore. Semaphore was around long before that in various forms. Semaphore towers were built in Europe in the late 1700s and navies started using semaphore with flags in the early 1800s.(This message has been edited by gold winger)

[Bob White 20]

Mia Culpa

Right you are GW. Myer flags were used during the civil war for code sending using the wig wag action that was also used in Morse Code flag signals.

 

Thanks

BW