Immature Scouters

[J-dawg168 10]

I got back from summer camp today and am still amazed at how immature adult leaders can be.

 

Wednesday at lunch, I was talking with one of my friends/fellow troop guides, when a scout in front of us from another troop walked out of line and started cutting on his stave with his knife. My friend kindly asked one of the adult leaders to tell the kid to put up his knife. Instead of telling him to put it up, he started getting smart and said "if you can show me where in the scouting regulations that it says you can't whittle on a stick in a crowd then I'll have him put it up." Our SPL overheard and walked up. My friend then said "I don't know where it says it, but it is common sense. I mean someone could just walk by and his knife could slip and but the person walking by." Knowing my friend was right, the scouter then said "well if i saw you as an authoritative figure, then i might tell him to put it up, but since your just a small little life scout, I don't see you as an authoritative figure. My friend was about one step away from hitting this guy in mouth, but kept his cool and just turned around. A staffer heard the argument, and walked over the the kid and told him to put it up. This made the scouter even more mad.

 

During the meal, i kept watching the scouter and two other scouters from the corner of my eye. They kept pointing at "overweight" and nerdy looking people and laughing. When me and my friend were done eating, we passed their table on the way out. The scouters gave us a dirty look and we told them to grow up.

 

The next day was a white water trip from the white water merit badge. The kid that was cutting on the stick and his dad went on the trip. Throughout the trip, the dad kept "accidentally" ramming and trying to flip my friend.

 

Scouting should be a place where examples are set and values are learned, not a place to learn how to be a smartelic.

 

(This message has been edited by J-dawg168)

[Beavah 205]

Yah, J-dawg. Thanks to yeh for what you do for the program and for your fellow scouts.

 

You're learning an important lesson, eh?

 

Age and titles have very little to do with competence, common sense or good ethics.

 

Older folks are just as mean, just as stupid, just as selfish as young people. Often worse, 'cause they've got experience at it!

 

Don't let it get to you, but do remember it... and resolve never to be "that guy" yourself when you're growin' old and feeble.

 

Beavah

 

 

 

[John-in-KC 311]

What Beavah said.

 

I will commend to you the process in Matthew 18: In a perfect world, you could quietly have a conversation with this gentleman. I suspect though that's not going to work. He probably isn't the type to listen to one Scout.

 

The next step is for several witnesses (hopefully including your SM) should quietly confront and discuss the issue with the gentleman in question. If he sess his error, problem solved.

 

If he does not see his error, bump the level up a notch: In this case, a visit by several witnesses to a camp Commissioner, the lakefront director, or the Camp Director would be in order.

 

Welcome to our Forums.

[J-dawg168 10]

Wouldn't that be a little too much there John?

 

Thanks for the welcome

 

--Yours in Scouting

J-dawg

[John-in-KC 311]

J-Dawg,

 

First, I meant ONE of those folk!!!

 

Second, you were out on white water. The risk level ticked up a notch. It's the old Pool rule, ten times more so: NO HORSEPLAY!!

 

This Scouter hazarded his charges. Why is he at camp? To me, it's not the reason we who are Scouters should be at camp: To serve our youth.

 

From your description, I doubt he's going to get an attack of conscience all by himself. Someone (or several someones) are going to need to encourage that in him. Hence, the process.

 

Remember, though, what Beavah said in his post: ..."resolve never to be "that guy" yourself ..."

[J-dawg168 10]

Ahhh....

 

I Wasn't thinking about saying something on the whitewater trip. i thought you meant about the one that wanted to get smart.

 

Gotcha

[Gonzo1 10]

J Dawg,

> but since your just a small little life scout, I don't see you as an authoritative figure

 

This is when the SPL could have said something like 'I AM the authoratative figure, I'm the SPL. Please ask your scout to put away his knife or I'll ask a staff member to'

 

On the other hand, the immature adult could have thanked you for pointing out an usafe condition and then the scouters could have noticed a deficiency in their training.(This message has been edited by Gonzo1)

[J-dawg168 10]

As immature as these guys were i doubt having the SPL step in would help at all. Might have helped though

[Beavah 205]

Yah, J-dawg, I agree with you, eh? I don't think in the situation you describe that anybody short of a "real authority" would have been listened too (and even then, it made him mad, right?).

 

Here's somethin' to add to your approach, though.

 

Praise in Public, Reprimand in Private.

 

It's pretty tough for either a youth or adult to take "correction" when it's being done in front of their friends and associates. That's doubly true when a "small little life scout" is talking to an adult. Guys start gettin' testosterone poisoning and argue just to argue.

 

Better to try to find a way to pull them aside, in private, away from peers and support group. "Excuse me, scouter, can I talk to you for a sec?" and step away from the line so you can have a private conversation. Same thing on the river. "Could you hold up a sec?" and then chat in a small eddy. Yeh set it up so there's no real need for them to "save face" - in fact, you set it up so that the way they show their authority isn't by arguin' with you, but by takin' care of the problem. At the first sign of an ego gettin' involved, take it quietly off to the side.

 

That was J-KC's reference to Matthew's gospel. If your brother's being a jerk, pull him aside in private and let him know. If he listens to you, you've got your brother back. If not, give it some time, then take one or two other people and talk to him in private again. If he listens to you, you've got your brother back. If not, give it some more time to sink in, then if you have to take the problem more formally to the whole community/authority in a more public way. If he won't even listen to them, you aren't ever going to get through. You've done all you can, it becomes da Great Scoutmaster's job after that.

 

Key is to do da first two steps in private.

 

Beavah

 

[FScouter 24]

What's wrong with stepping away from others to use a knife?

[J-dawg168 10]

Well first off, IT'S NOT SAFE to use your knife around a large crowd. Think about it. your knife slips as someone walks by you and then you cut then....... simple. Its just not safe. Thats almost like spraying bug spray into a lighter inside your tent.... its not safe.

[OldGreyEagle 5]

I understand how emotions run high, I just spent a week end with my brothers and father we dont see each other much and each time I do, I understand why.

 

J-dawg, I beleive what F-Scouter was saying was that why didnt the scout with the knife step away from the crowd. Knowing F-Scouter as I do, I am confident he in no way meant that anything you posted was wrong

[gwingdad 10]

It is obvious the scout and the immature scouter forgot the first rule for the Totin Chip. Before you open the blade to a knife, make sure NO ONE is in your bloodline. So yes, there is something in the scouting regulations about using a knife near others.

 

Hopefully, they will see the error in their ways for the future.

[FScouter 24]

The opening post indicated the boy with the knife stepped out of line (away from others?) before cutting on his stick. That would seem to be the prudent thing to do. Perhaps the adult leader told him to move away from others? Perhaps he didnt step far enough away to allay any concerns? Perhaps he was swinging it around in a dangerous manner? Nothing J-dawg168 posted is wrong; I was just looking for clarification. Regardless, the reaction was excessive.

[Pack378 10]

I don't know about the totin chip but the cub scouts rule number 3 for there whittling chip is "I will not use my pocketknife when it might injure someone near me." Go figure!