Qualifying to attend summer camp

[JerseyJohn 10]

We use the troop defined "Scout Spirit" as cmap / trip attendance guidelines. For our troop of 68 scouts it goes like this....

 

Trips are broken into three categories

1. Fun trips

2. Skills trips

3. Educational trips

You must attend a Skills and an Educational BEFORE you can attend a fun trip. Everyone knows the rules and thats the way it is.

 

Regarding HA it's like this

1. You must attend 4 of 10 of the years trips

2. You must attend two meetings a month

3. 14 or older

4. First class

 

Regarding summer camp

Everyone is encouraged to attend and we normally have 75% attendance.

 

John

[Beavah 205]

SR540 asks "What do you have to lose??? "

 

That's easy, eh? Time. Adult time is a valuable and limited commodity. The time you spend hand-holdin' that one boy through camp because he hasn't bought in, doesn't understand the rules, hasn't come on anything so doesn't listen to his PL, or know how to cook, or... is time that another boy who also needs your attention isn't getting it.

 

Sometimes yeh go after the lost sheep, because it's a good-odds sacrifice you're willing to make. But sometimes a boy or a parent is just takin' advantage of the system and your time.

 

And what applies to our time as adults applies double to the time of our youth leaders. They have to give up more of their time and energy dealing with this one-timer, so that they have less to pursue their own interests, or do other cool things, or make their patrol "hum," or just to hang with their friends. Again, sometimes it's a sacrifice they're willing to make, because it's the right thing to do (for a boy who was sick, or grounded for grades, or...). And sometimes they feel taken advantage of, by a boy who isn't willing to make a trustworthy commitment to be a part of the team.

 

Teachin' character sometimes means saying "no", eh?

(This message has been edited by Beavah)

[SR540Beaver 116]

Beavah,

 

I never mentioned handholding. Showing interest in the boys scouting experience is the job we voluteerers signed up for. I know every troop is different, but we had 51 boys and 11 adults at summer camp this year. The only "handholding" we did if you want to call it that was with two regular attender scouts. One waved a knife towards another scout and the other was homesick. The two of them required a little more time than anyone else.

 

I just can't understand an SM or ASM thinking that going out of their way by simply asking a kid how he is enjoying camp and talking to him occasionally to get to know him is taking away from the rest of the boys. They should be doing it with each boy. I have 20 new scouts that I work with and they all attended summer camp for the first time this year. I talked to each one of them daily to see how things were going and showed some interest in them individually.

 

In 7th grade, I was a shy, self-conscious kid with very low confidence. The youth minister from my church went out of his way to draw me in and include me and it changed my life. I ended up being a leader in our youth group as the years passed. His efforts on my behalf never took away from the other kids. To each kid in our group, they felt like they were the most important kid around when they were around him. I remember his influence whenever I put on my uniform and am around the boys. Everyone loses when you tell a boy he can't come to summer camp based on his meeting attendance. It just doesn't make sense.

[Twocubdad 665]

I don't know if Chippewa has left for camp yet, but my experience at camp this summer would at least make me wary about this Scout's attitude. I would certainly have a talk with him before we left.

 

Two of my 14-year-old third-year campers showed up for summer camp with huge chips on their shoulders. (These are my two "at risk" guys I mentioned in the other thread.) They didn't really want to go to camp but were being made to by their parents. They spent the better part of the week making sure everyone knew they didn't want to be there. One of them shaped up by the end of the week, but the other was a first-rate horse's pitut and missed being sent home by the skin of his teeth.

 

Lesson learned: Scouts who don't want to go to camp are red-flagged for potential discipline problems. Resolve them before you get on the bus.

 

As to the larger issue of dealing with boys' disinterest in the program, a quote I heard several years ago sums it up: "Scouting is for every boy, but not every boy is for Scouting." If sitting home playing video games is your bag, well that's just not what we do here. That's not to say we can't reach that boy if we try. But if he insists on sitting around playing video games, it's just not going to work out. Pick up a Scout Handbook and say, "here's what Scouts do. If these things don't interest you then maybe this isn't the program for you."

 

My problem Scout's dad tells me his son doesn't think Scouting is fun anymore. At that particular time, his son was sitting in the back of the room bored with the troop program about canoeing. He was bored because he wasn't planning to go on the ensuing canoe trip. Well duh! That's our fault?

 

Much of it has to do with attitude and we are all familiar with the attidude a 14-year-old can cop. Things are fun and interesting if we want them to be fun and interesting. If we planned a troop meeting around skateboarding and Led Zepplin (this kid's two big passions) he would shrug his shoulders and say the meeting was boring, he does that stuff all afternoon.

 

Who said you get out of Scouting what you put in to it? Amen!

 

[Chippewa29 13]

Hello everyone. Thanks for the great replies. Lots of good opinions going both ways. We got back from summer camp on Saturday. Summer camp went well for the most part. The Scout in question did better than last year. He lost his temper a couple of times, but instead of blowing up at one of the other Scouts, he just kicked a tree instead. The Scout is still very immature and not a team player, but he did manage to get along with the other Scouts. The big thing I was concerned about was that he signed up for three merit badges that his dad said he wanted to do(basketry, art, and woodcarving) and only completed art. His excuse for not finishing was that he didn't like the class (other Scouts in our troop thought the instructor and other kids in the class were great). This Scout did love the waterfront during free time and got friendly with a couple of other Scouts from other troops.

 

When his dad came to pick him up on Saturday and asked how things went, I told him and he didn't care that his son didn't bother to complete a couple of easy merit badges. Apparently, his son doesn't care if he advances or not.

 

The feeling I'm getting from the Scout and the parents is that they view Scout summer camp like other summer camps that parents just send their kids to in the summer. The kids go to just have fun for a week and the parents send them to get a week off from parenting. I don't think this Scout has any intention of attending other camps or meetings (although I'm sure he will come to the COH in September for his merit badge). Although this is probably the best experience we've had with this Scout, I don't really see the point of him staying in the troop to go to summer camp once a year and not really get anything done. Scouting is a game with a purpose.

 

As his brother is aging out next spring, we'll have to see if his dad will plop down money for this Scout to attend summer camp again. My guess is that he won't, but stranger things have happened.

 

Thanks again for all the feedback.

[Eagledad 2779]

>>Although this is probably the best experience we've had with this Scout, I don't really see the point of him staying in the troop to go to summer camp once a year and not really get anything done. Scouting is a game with a purpose.

[Chippewa29 13]

Eagledad-

 

Thank you for your post. After I read it, I wanted to make sure I thought about what you read and what I intended. I took absolutely no offense to your comments. They were very well said and made a good point. I thought it over some last night and wanted to respond in more detail.

 

The Scout in question has never really wanted to be a part of the Scouts. It is something his parents make him do because his brother enjoys it so much and has gotten so much out of it. This Scout enjoys some of the activities that Scouts do. However, he doesn't like to wear a uniform (he argued with us the first half of the week when it was time for the Scouts to change into uniform for dinner).

 

He doesn't care to be a part of a group and doesn't feel the need to belong to one. He reluctantly did his duties as a member of his patrol (we did patrol cooking at summer camp) and complained all week about not having a dining hall. He also didn't see any reason to participate when his patrol was doing a project together (he was the only one that objected). I believe that a big part of Scouting is working together in the patrol method and learning how to deal with your peers in a group setting. He doesn't want to do that.

 

Something else I strongly believe in is for the Scout to give back to the troop is some way. This Scout doesn't see why he should have to do that. He believes the troop (and its leaders) are there to serve his wants and needs and there doesn't need to be any reciprocation.

 

He has no desire to take part in the advancement system. The merit badges he supposedly picked were activities he supposedly enjoyed doing. We tell the Scouts that when they pick merit badges (they do it about two months before camp), they need to be sure and follow through with them, as they are taking a spot in those classes (there sometimes are enough spots for everyone in certain classes and Scouts get bumped to their backup choices). An important lesson to learn for Scouts is to create a plan and then follow through on it.

 

Basically, what this Scout wanted out of camp was to go and do some activities that he enjoyed doing on a drop in basis. If he managed to meet some friends along the way,great. He could very easily get this experience at tons of other camps, whether they be for church (his family is active in their church) or another private camp. The additional responsibilities that go along with attending Scout camp (especially when the patrol method is used) are something this Scout has absolutely no desire to participate in.

 

If this were a brand new Scout, then the situation would be different. New Scouts often don't know or haven't had a chance to really participate in the Patrol Method and other aspects that differentiate the Scout summer camp from just another youth camp.

 

Another difference would be if the Scout was an at risk child. This Scout has two loving parents at home that spend more than enough time with him and his brother. The Scout is not a kid that will get in trouble if he doesn't participate in Scouts. Between school and his other activities, his time is pretty well filled. Also, this Scout has a good sense of right and wrong and knows what kind of kids to stay away from.

 

By the way, "Scouting is a game with a purpose" is a saying I believe started by BP himself. I hope this post more clearly explains why I brought up the subject in the first place. Thanks again for your response. I forced to really look at why I said what I did.

[Eagledad 2779]

Ahh, it makes more sense now. This thread made me think back to all the difficult scouts we took to summer camp. There were several. Some of those scouts just plain wore out our adult staff, so I do relate. This doesnt have anything to do with this subject or your post, but I remember after one such summer camp asking the parents of one mentally retarded scout to look for a different troop for their son. We also had his older brother, also retarded but he needs weren't near as demanding. We all knew it was a trial to see if this scout could fit, but he just required too much special attention that we couldnt give. The parents understood and agreed, but it still hurts to think back on the conversation.

 

I am not judging your post at all, so dont take this as advice to your original question, but sometimes difficult scouts can help shape the character of the adult staff. Scouting is great when it is easy, but even the bible says character is formed during our trials and struggles. This might be cause for reflection. Maybe your staffs goals need some tweaking or parts of the program could use some tuning up. But for a moment, look to see if there is an opportunity here.

 

The other question that keeps coming to mind is what would the parents say if you asked them what they want from your Troop? Not what their son would get, but what they want. Im curious.

 

Hey, thanks for the well thought out reply, have a great scouting week.

 

I love this scouting stuff.

 

Barry

 

[Beavah 205]

Once upon a time there was a good kid who didn't like baseball. His brother was good at baseball, and got a lot out of baseball. His parents really liked baseball, too. But it wasn't his thing. He would rather be building model cars and racing them.

 

Still, his parents made him play baseball. "It's good for you" they said. So he grudgingly did the minimum he had to. Whenever he could, though, he avoided going to baseball practice. But the coach liked his parents, and believed that baseball was a good thing for every boy. Even though he never came to practice, he was never cut. This annoyed the other players a fair bit.

 

Every year, when summer came around, he couldn't come up with the good excuses he used during school to avoid baseball, so he got shuffled off to baseball camp. He wasn't a bad kid, but he really didn't like baseball, so even at camp he would avoid drills, dodge practice, and otherwise be a pain. His teammates really were annoyed by this, but he'd avoid them and just hang out with the one or two other souls who were also at the fringes. He frustrated his coaches. As his teammates got better and better, his performance remained weak, and he lost confidence.

 

Despite all this, the coaches would say "our internet friends believe every boy can flourish playing baseball, so it must be our fault this boy isn't succeeding. We'll keep him in baseball and work harder with him." So although he sent all the signals he knew how without becoming rebellious and disobedient, this little lad couldn't get out of baseball.

 

And as a result, he never got to pursue his real passion for electronics and auto racing. And he never accomplished anything in baseball.

 

Shame what well-meaning adults can do to kids, eh?