new scout wants to go back to webelos?

[SR540Beaver 116]

As Sm or ASM we do not run the troop, the boys do.

The troop leadership should be hands off as much as possible.

 

Lynda,

 

Ahhh yes.....but who is responsible for training and ultimate oversight of the boy leadership? The SM and ASM's. Train them right and hopefully your oversight will mostly be at a distance. But a troop is an ever changing and evolving thing and your leadership is changing every 6 months. Sometimes for the better and sometimes for the worse. Boys age out and young boys come in. The troops whole complextion, level of ability and expertise changes constantly. Our own EagleDad gave me an excellent definition of boy-led over lunch a year or two ago. To paraphrase, boy led is different for each troop. If you have a newly chartered troop of all 11 year olds and all they can do is put together part of their meeting agenda, they are boy led to the extent they can be for their age and ability. If you have a large troop that has a wide range of boys and mature seasoned boy leaders that can plan every aspect of the troop's program, that too is boy led. Both are different, but both are as boy led as they can be given where they are at. WE adults are responsible for getting them to whatever point they are at and to do the quality control on the job being done.

 

I have become a strong believer in the NSP and adult involvment with new scouts as opposed to taking a hands off approach. We are a big troop with 60 registered boys. 20 of those boys are new crossovers and it is my understanding that we might have another 4 crossing soon. We are also blessed with a good number of registered adults. I am one of 3 NSP ASM's and we have 4 troop guides divided between the 2 NSP's. The SM has an orientation meeting with the parents when the boys cross over where they are given some handouts, but also have an indepth Q&A session. We ASM's meet with the TG's on a monthly basis to plan out the program for the NSP's. The TG's report back and coordinate the NSP program within the troops overall program. We separate the NSP for skill time during troop meetings. These can be led by an adult, a TG or one of the older boys. While the NSP often participates in the monthly outing program, we often have program geared toward their advancement built into the outing.

 

I guess to a degree, one could say we are holding their hand thru the NSP. I don't think so. They still participate in troop meetings and are only seperated for skills. They still participate in the outings and campfire program, they just sometimes do a different activity than the rest of the troop. Many of the Tenderfoot, 2nd Class and 1st Class requirements are being worked on at the same time. For the first month or two, especially for things we are doing as a group, we remind them to being us their books to be signed. At the same time, we are telling them that they will be responsible for obtaining sign-offs in the future and we won't be asking.

 

Everything is designed to ease them into the troop environment in the comfort of a peer group. The TG's serve as their PL and APL and do much of the training. We ASM's make our presence known and assist with some training to get them used to adult association. After about 9 months in the NSP, we move them into existing patrols and if we and the boy leadership have done their job right, they are ready to hunt with the big dogs.

 

No, we don't run the troop.....we just make sure it runs right.

[LongHaul 10]

SR540Beaver,

I was in agreement right up till the last paragraph. Everything is designed to ease them into the troop environment in the comfort of a peer group. The TG's serve as their PL and APL and do much of the training. We ASM's make our presence known and assist with some training to get them used to adult association. After about 9 months in the NSP, we move them into existing patrols and if we and the boy leadership have done their job right, they are ready to hunt with the big dogs.

The TGs are the PLs and APLs so the new scouts never get a chance of hands on learning in these positions while they have the TGs and ASMs as a back up. After about 9 months they are moved into existing patrols, so as I read it for the first 9 months they dont have the Patrol Method to build with because the transitory group they are a part of is going to be dissolved and they know it. Building the trust and cooperation doesnt begin until they are expected to hunt with the big dogs. I always looked upon the NSP concept as a means of building a new patrol not as a means of developing a feeder group for the existing patrols.

LongHaul

 

[SR540Beaver 116]

Longhaul,

 

It all depends on a variety of circumstances. Could you keep the NSP together as a new regular patrol. Sure you can. But now you have boys who have not been around long enough to have the experience to make a good PL. The hardest group of people to be in autority over are true peers. I saw it with my own son in a small troop we started with all 11 year olds. He was the most mature and that was recognized by the boys. They unanimously elected him as PL and promptly set out to defy him at every term. Next election when we had new bos join and had enough boys for a second patrol, he was elected SPL. Again, he got absolutely no cooperation because, "he doesn't know anymore than we do". There is plenty of interaction between the patrols, so boys get to know each other and make friends with other patrol members. Also, they have been stuck with kids in their NSP that have driven them nuts.

 

There is this romantic view that patrols are a "gang" or group of buddies who naturally came together in their school or neighborhood and one of those boys is the natural leader that rises to the top. Maybe 80 or 90 years ago. Not today. We've done patrols a hundred different ways, always with the boys input. The problem with trying to hold the NSP together as a patrol until they age out is that the size of the patrol often dwindles down to one 16 year old boy. Why would there be more of an advantage of only merging patrols of older boys late in their career? By merging patrols, keeping 3 or 4 buddies together from the NSP, you end up with patrols that stay fairly constant in size, have a nice age spread and allows for the new boys to become more fully oriented and integrated into the troop structure. In our troop, they will not be ready to run for an elected position until they have reached a certain rank and a certain activity level.

 

Obviously, having a troop of 60 boys from 10 to 17 years of age gives us a whole lot more possibilities of how to structure and run things than our old troop of six 11 year olds.

 

I don't know if the meds I'm taking for a pinched nerve caused me to ramble or not or if I answered your question. Basically, we are fairly flexible and try to do things as the situation calls for it. It might be normal one year to keep the vast majority of NSP boys together while another year we need to reallign patrols across the board.

[AvidSM 11]

The issue of whether or not to hold a NSP together has been debated in this forum before with both sides expressing the advantages and disadvantages of each.

 

Having a NSP out of control is a problem and will affect how a new boy sees scouting. If that boy is immature or has other issues and is not ready to join scouting, an out-of-control NSP would certainly make things worse. The story of this boy is not unique and it sounds like he just didn't fit in.

 

I have seen some NSP's mesh together very well and I have had others that I could not wait to see split up and merge with other patrols. In my troop, it's up to the boys and not troop policy how the patrols are organized.

 

The bottom line is that boys learn best by doing. Give them a chance to lead while training them at the same time and then see what happens. For a NSP, the TG and ASM should stay close and if things get out of control step in and give them guidance and advice. Sometimes the best you get is a state of quasi-control - some call this organized chaos.

 

Putting a TG in charge of a NSP as PL is not giving any new boy a chance to lead. I have never had a boy quit because of a bad experience as patrol leader. And, if a new boy does not fit in - he just doesn't fit it. I don't see how having an other new boy as PL could make any difference.