Too Many Roles?

[Eamonn 61]

This is a spin off from the post that KS started about becoming a R/T Commissioner. He made a good argument as to why he was willing to take on this extra responsibility.

It seems that everywhere I go I bump into people that are wearing a stack of hats. Some wear this as a badge of honor, others have a friendly moan about it.

I'm only registered in two positions. One that so far only takes up a very little of my time and will get bigger and when this happens I will be done with being the District Chair. However I do find myself being asked and doing other jobs that need doing. This at times does cause conflict at home and I hear "Why are you doing this?" Most times my only answer is that we just didn't find anyone else or just because So and so asked me too.

During my time as Chair. I have put into force a policy that we (The District) will not ask a Unit Leader to serve on the District Committee or as a Commissioner. Bob White has pointed out that Unit Leaders serving as Commissioners isn't supposed to be allowed any way.

My thinking was that we the District Committee are here to support the units. If we are taking people away from the units we are in fact not doing our job.

In some ways I am very fortunate in that over the past couple of years we have put together a good nominating committee, who have worked wonders in bringing more non Scout people on board. The sad or bad thing is that willing as these people are they need to be trained so they know what they should be doing. We have packed many of them off to the Council ran District Training and the reports were less then good.

I also am of the believe that people wearing too many hats, while they may get the job done are in fact hurting the program. Mainly because as long as they are doing all these jobs and filling all these roles, the need to fill them is less urgent and at times no effort to find new people is made.

Some might say that I am a Task Master, but at every District Meeting we set 30 goals for each Committee. I expect that these goals will be met. I have our DE check up to make sure that this work is progressing and she reports to me. If things are not going well I want to know why.

Sure things pop up people get sick, things happen at work. Still if someone said that they were busy with the Troop, Crew or pack I would remind them that I am holding them accountable.

When I first became District Commissioner, I got really fed up hearing the same reports. The same problems with the same units month after month. I found that when we wrote down what was going to happen and made the Unit Commissioner and the Assistant District Commissioners accountable for getting the job done, not just reporting the problems things started to happen. While it is not really true I look at it as "You Work For Me And I Come First." I want this stuff done.

Can anyone really work for two or more masters?

Eamonn.

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

A person is asked to do one job. Another person comes along and sees what a great job that she is doing at the first job. They ask her to do a second job because her efficiency rating is high and they notice her self esteem was raised a notch with the second request. She is noted as doing a good job at the second one but even that is better than most. A third job is offered because there are so few people that are "trained" and they just "don't know" the program like she does. She is able to do her work in short because her work needs little planning because of her experience. So, out of desperation she takes the third job. Nobody else could do it plus she has a great personality. The forth job is taken because it only takes a little time to do and the fifth job is time limited. None note that her work is now done "off the cuff" and without thought but it is still good because people like her. At the District Dinner she is called up and given five or six Certificates of Thanks and all applause her great work.

 

She feels wonderful about what she is doing for these young people that need her so much.

 

Other carrot(s), District Award of Merit, Silver Beaver, etc. are hung out every year to those most deserving souls that sacrifice like she does and of course she is up for one of them the next year.

 

It is unnecessary to do that to an individual. It is wrong and we should make it part of the training to instruct people that if they do the one job they are doing they will not have time for anything else. Also, recognition can be given for someone who does their one job well.

 

How then will the work of the District get done? How will Camporees be run if the main people don't do them? Recruiting and training are the keys to bringing sanity to a program that relies on just a few individuals.

 

It is a lazy approach to go to the same people year after year to get them to do the program. These individuals are good hearted and love to be asked. It is easy to do but it depletes the overall program. It takes away from the boys that depend on their leaders to deliver quality support.

 

If a person decides that their present job is no longer satisfying, then she should stop and ask for another job. Simple as that!

 

Who really pays when Scouting is done five and six nights a week by one person? If you can't figure that one out, then nobody should tell you.

 

Hi, my name is Fuzzy and I am a Scoutoholic but I have been dry now for 8 years,

 

FB

 

[AnneinMpls 10]

Wow...I've always envied the BSA ways of dividing the work. In GS, everything in the Service Unit (similar to district - little smaller geographically)is done by leaders. Half done. They are spread way too thin, and very prone to the idea that only they can do it. It is a hard slog to get them to incorporate other volunteers into the structure. And we just don't have the clear structure of responsibilities that make it apparent where these other non-leader volunteers can fit in. So we don't have a clear mandate for recruiting other volunteers, and the leaders don't trust non-leaders to be able to do the job (even though they're spread too thin to do a good job of it). And year after year, we keep doing it this way because nobody from higher up is telling em to do it any differently. In fact, like you said, the ones who are overcommitted get *lots* of strokes for this dysfunctional behavior.

"Do one job and do it well." requires them to trust other people to do *their* one job and do it well. What's the single most important step to take to change this? Where does one start? If you start by recruiting new folks, they are soon disenchanted by the cold reception. If you start by explaining how wonderful it will be for everyone not to have to work so hard, they're not gonna buy it, cause they don't see all these wonderful committed volunteers pourihng out of the woodwork. So where do you begin? I have an inkling it's "lead by example".

But dangit all to heck...I'm one of those overcommitted dummies! Council trainer, SU family partnership chair, day camp committee, and a unit leader. Seriously, leading the troop and being a council trainer are plenty, *more than plenty* to be doing but they are what I love. But...I was the catalyst for our SU having a day camp for the first time in...30 years? So...I'm kinda required on that one. I turned over family partnership to someone else...my co-leader . And volunteered to be the orientation specialist . I'm mad as heck about day camp, because I'm constantly trying to steer them away from a program of sitting on the grass doing coloring sheets, and the other two on the committee are continually steering right back towards coloring sheets, cause they just found another *really cute one the girls will just love!*...gah. it makes me feel so *needed*.

Please forgive me..I didn't mean this to turn into ranting and whining. If I could just see the way out of it clearly...

Peace out,

Anne in Mpls

[mk9750 11]

Eamonn,

 

I agree with 99.75% of everything you said. Assuming you typed it correctly, did you really mean you develop 30 goals for each committee? That seems counterproductive, to me. Could you have meant three?

 

Other than that, I like you style, ole' chap!

 

Mark

[SR540Beaver 116]

Unit leaders shouldn't be commissioners? And where do you find these mythical creatures who will fill those roles instead of unit leaders? Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with the idea, I just don't find it very practical. A year ago, many of the units in our district didn't even know what a unit commissioner was....they had never seen one. The district decided that needed changing. There has been a big big push to assign each unit a commissioner and for them to be active. So far the plan has been successful and information is flowing better and units are getting district support thru their UC. However, there are not scores of veteran scouters (non-unit) standing in the wings just waiting to be UC's. Most of the veteran's (son's aged out and no longer active in a unit) are already working at the district and council level. For prying, a pry bar should be used. If you don't have one and can't get one, you tend to end up using a big screwdriver or claw hammer. Not the best, but it gets the job done.

[scoutldr 739]

I wear four hats...Troop CC, OA Assoc Chap Advisor, District Training Chairman, and District Training staff for all CS and BS training in my district. I am at my breaking point, and am considering resigning the Training position (the one that I find the most stressful) for the following reasons:

 

1. I have been unsuccessful in recruiting trainers who are a)willing, b)capable, and c)willing to sit through Trainer Development Conference, which everyone agrees is useless. Those that meet at least 2 out of 3 of these criteria are already wearing other hats. Several times the DE has referred me to a good, experienced trainer, but when I contact them, they say, I would love to, but Im transferring in 3 months.

 

2. There is a strong Council initiative to get every leader trained. Don't get me wrong, I don't disagree with this, and they have backed off on the "mandatory" thing, but...every leader will be offered full training within 30 days of registration, all training courses must be set in stone (date and location) and published one year in advance, training courses should be scheduled whenever a unit requests it, train one-on-one if necessary, offer training at every camporee and every week of summer camp, yada, yada, yada. Like I said, training is important, but I cannot spend every evening and weekend doing it, just because the Council Executive Board dictated it.

 

3. I represent one of seven districts...some of the other districts have no training chair, or "we don't do the Blue side", or "we don't do the Green side". Consequently, when I do offer a course, it fills up with leaders from other districts and I don't make any progress on MY districts stats. Council policy is that all training is open to everyone. Again, don't get me wrong, these are eager, wonderful people, and I never turn anyone away, but why are other Districts allowed to skate and take advantage of me while some other district Key 3 gets the credit?

 

4. The current Cub training curriculum is ridiculous, requiring new training every time you move up in the program. Couple that with a highly mobile military community, and I can never get ahead.

 

5. I do have a real day job that pays my bills and requires flexible hours and sometimes traveling on short notice, not to mention a one-hour commute each way, so I am up at 5 am and not home until 6 pm most days. Being locked into a training schedule a year in advance is not realistic for me. If I have a meeting at 7 pm, sometimes I have to go straight there from work in order to make it in time, then I dont get home until 10 or later.

 

6. People are generally inconsiderate. I cut off registration a week ahead of time, but then Council gives out my home phone number. Then I get 5-6 calls a day for the last week from people I forgot to register, can I come anyway??? , or 3 days after the course, saying I know you just had a course, but something came up and we couldnt make it, when can you train 2 people?

 

7. Training locations will typically not commit to a year in advance, lest their own organization need the space. The Council Service Center is not available to us...half the year it is used as a Popcorn warehouse. Schools are a good location, but not open during the summers.

 

8. Bob White has almost convinced me that training should be perfect and by the book and if I cant do it that way, I shouldnt do it at all. While I do manage to present the required material, I freely admit that I dont do the preparation and delivery by the book (like have a series of meetings of the training staff prior to the event, and practice presenting the material to each other...does anyone really do it that way?). PIZAZZ??? Forget it. No way I can assemble a staff of 5 qualified trainers (who must now be certified and approved by the Council Training Committee) with 5 video tapes and 5 TV/VCRs and 5 classrooms to properly do the breakout sessions...25 or more times per year (whats required to meet the need). Aint gonna happen.

 

I am thoroughly beaten into submission and I give up. Its officially too hard...and thanks to those above in this thread who reminded me that Im a volunteer and if its not fun, I can (and should) quit. I am having a serious case of the guilts, though, having just been presented with the District Award of Carrot (oops, I mean Merit) and now one year away from my District Committee Key. Sorry for the rant, but it has been good to actually put this to paper (electrons) and convince myself to move on.

 

 

 

 

 

(This message has been edited by scoutldr)

[SR540Beaver 116]

scoutldr,

 

JUST SAY NO! I am a people pleaser and it is hard for me to say no, but I learned how to do it eventually. I always joke that the "one hour a week" saying refers to how much time you get to spend at home. In our troop, the SM is the district trainer, a Wood Badge staffer and a unit commisioner. Our CC is his wife and she is a trainer and a unit commissioner too. My fellow ASM was a Cubmaster (ended in May), a trainer, a WB staffer, a unit commissioner and a Jamboree ASM. I was the Cub CC (ended in May too), an ASM and a Jamboree ASM. Sometimes I feel guilty that I don't do as much as them; but on the other hand, sometimes I think they are nuts for doing everything they do. All of the jobs are necessary, but there has to be a better way to get things done. I feel for you and wish I had a better answer other than "just say NO!"

[Eamonn 61]

Thank you Mark,

It ought to read 30 Day Goals.

Fuzzy Bear

It seems strange that you bring up"Carrots." Only the other day the DE and I were saying how we now seem to have a bigger turn over in Leaders. We are at a stage in the District where it seems a lot of the good and faithful old timers are becoming just too old and at the same time people who were great Den Leaders and Cub Scout Leaders are done. Their son has crossed over and they are not volunteering to do anything. We thought that maybe more recognition might have kept them going.

Anne

I think a lot of the stuff covered in the new Wood Badge, has guided me in getting new people off on the right foot. I have a better understanding of where they are as far as reaching a goal and know what stage they are at. From this I can with the help of the DE, offer the style of Leadership that is needed for them to get the job done.

Some of the places that I think we mess up in are: Not providing a written job description.

Not giving the new guy real work to do. Not training him how to do. Not allowing time for celebrations when something has been done well and recognizing the people that made it go well.

I am at times amazed at the dividends a $10.00 cake and a few bottles of pop can bring.

Beaver Old Chap,

I have to admit that Commissioner Staffing is hard. In fact I'm having and have had problems with the Chap who is our District Commissioner. His second biggest problem is that he doesn't delegate and keeps trying to do everything himself. He of course is always playing catch up. This never being ahead of the game takes away from the time that he should be spending with the Assistant District Commissioners working on recruitment. Still we have 26 Commissioners for 42 Units. Some do an outstanding job some don't.

Scoutldr.

Me thinks that you need a good cup of tea or maybe something a little stronger.

Sit yourself down and think what the job of a District Training Chairman really is?

Heres a hint.

I'm the District Chairman. I sure as heck don't run all the unit programs in the District. I have served as both a District and Council Training Chair. At first when I a District Training Chair. It was because of the work that I had done in training and I felt that I had to be present a each and every training. As time went on and this became more and more difficult I changed it, I started training the people who would present the training. Sure at first I was very much like an expectant father. But much as it hurts my ego these people were good and did a better job then I was doing. They had the time and weren't as rushed as I had been.

Eamonn.

[ozemu 10]

we are only allowed the one hat here.

 

I agree with that policy but then we have a lot less hats to wear than do you in the USA.

Maybe our jobs are a little bigger than the way you have divided things. Don't know.

 

I do not believe that this is true at Troop level.

 

The biggest difference that I see is that here a Scout begins at age 6 and leaves at age 26 (ideally) and providing the sections are available they will have the same parent committee all through.

 

Let me try a different angle. We have a single parent committee providing support for up to five youth sections (Joeys, Cubs, Scouts, Venturers, Rovers). This means that we might save three executive positions on each of four committee's if I understand your system right. We use three instead of 15 parents on committee's. This make sthe three jobs much bigger but not five times as big if you see my drift.

 

Now I am not sure what could be done at Troop level but you certainly have a lot of commissioners.

 

It seems though that your association is better administered. Then again we have three executive professionals per state. That's all. Wish we had proffessionals like you seem to have.

 

This post is a bit disorganised. Sorry. Out of real coffee - just instant decaf!!

 

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

FB here. I have yet begun to rant! I want to purpose a double sided sword for the one job issue.

 

It is never simple to say no but if you have people skills and many of you do, then it is easier to find a new leader and train that leader yourself than to do their job for them. Mentor them until they have their job "in hand" and if they need help, you will help them find it. You will be their security blanket while they learn. You will be the one to drink coffee with them and make them feel comfortable when otherwise they would be an outsider. You will be the one to introduce them to several of the old hands that you know and help surround them until they own their job. Your only duty is to not do their job for them and to bow out once they take over.

 

This is done one person at a time. If you are very good at this type of recruiting, you can bring in about three people per year. Over the course of five years, you will have fifteen people that have been trained and you will have multiplied yourself many more times over than the four or five hats that you were wearing before this effort began. If you want to make an impact and to help others then this could be your mission.

 

Once you begin to recruit and train, then before too long you will have enough trust built with enough leaders that they will begin to act like you. They will come to appreciate what you did for them and they will see the real value of your efforts.

 

Most of us like to lead, train, and do but few think about membership and recruitment as the one side of the equation that we conveniently leave out. We say that fear keeps us from recruiting but I believe that it is fear of not being recognized because the spotlight will not be on us that keeps us piling high the hats. I think if you give it a try, you will find it enjoyable and your work will be found out anyway and recognized.

 

I offer this approach from personal failure and redemption.

 

FB

 

[AnneinMpls 10]

Hey FuzzyBear! (Why do I keep wanting to call you Fozzy??)

Your idea of bringing in and properly incorporating about 3 people a year is exactly what I needed to hear. I wish we could just wave a wand and bring in 10 or 15 but obviously that's not how it's going to happen! What you propose sounds doable and realistic.

Now...how do you figure out where your priorities lie? For instance, the unit has no committee (very very common in GS, I'm sure it happens sometimes in BSA units). When I think about "Who could I recruit?" I think of the parents of scouts in the unit. Do I prioritize the unit's needs or the district/SU? Should all volunteers begin with some time volunteering at the unit level?

 

[Fuzzy Bear 12]

10 Principles to improve your work in Scouting

 

You personally know what is needed the most and that becomes your priority one. Another way to establish a priority is to choose a job that is appealing to you and make that your goal. I believe the best way is to choose a job that is easy to recruit for and easy to achieve.

 

Principle: Success breeds success. Most of us feel better when we accomplish a major project especially if we can do it quickly.

 

If the job is at the unit level, then those that have a vested interest will most likely take the job. The person you select will feel insecure because they are new and untrained. It becomes your job to assist them in getting trained to be knowledgeable of their duties.

 

Principle 1: New people do not like the discomfort of being an outsider.

 

You can fix this by being a friend. Meet them for coffee and a review the job. Make them understand the needs and let them tell you some of their ideas about how to achieve them.

 

Principle 2: New people want to join a group or New people do not like working alone.

 

Since it is you and the one other person, bring in an old hand to train them. There will be more coffee and getting to know you and the job. Now it is three people and they are the center of attention. They also now have two friends they did not have before.

 

Training is only the beginning. The person now knows some of the parameters and knows most of the duties. Survey the needs of the unit and establish a plan biased on those needs.

 

Principle 3: People like to feel needed and important.

 

They are faced with this mountain of responsibility but you are with them to assist in breaking it down into bite sized hunks so the problem can be brought into focus and easily solved.

 

Principle 4: People want to be successful.

 

How successful? They do not need to know these but you are there to help make them more successful than if you had done it yourself. You can let them know that within a certain time period they will be have climbed the mountain of responsibilities and will wonder why they ever doubted.

 

Principle 5: People like the idea of time limited projects.

 

Scouting has prospered on the notion that it only takes one-hour per week. If a person actually is doing one job, then one hour per week comes close but several things must be in place before that can be a reality. There is also "maintenance" time that must be acknowledged. Overall, if there is a plan and it is worked by a well trained individual there are limits to any project.

 

Say this individual is now the CC and needs a committee. The CC will feel uncomfortable in recruiting but both of you together can make this goal achievable. Once again, start with those that have a vested interest and select one person at a time. Train them, befriend them and work the system as before.

 

Let each MC know that their job is time limited and their duties will be very specific. Each meeting that is held should have the elements as before plus they are now joining a group with goals that will assist their children.

 

Principle 6: People that are working on projects like to have fun and feel comfortable.

 

How can this be done? Make sure that every meeting starts and stops on time. Make sure that every meeting has an agenda that is organized, prioritized, and well prepared. Make sure that every meeting has food and drink and a social time to talk in general but then is slowly focused by the leader to the agenda. Make sure that minutes are taken and new business is included.

All ideas are important but will be tabled for review. Make sure to have a closing. It does not need to be formal but the ideals of Scouting should be the basis of our transactions as we come together.

 

Principle 7: People like to be recognized for their work.

 

Have a yearly dinner and hand out certificates, plaques, or home built mementos. Give them something and mention some of their work. I want to underscore recognition in this instance because if you have done your job correctly the support the unit will be receiving will be of maximum value and the program should begin to reap huge benefits.

 

Principle: Know when to bow out gracefully and let them takeover their successful operation.

 

Don't hang on. Periodic meetings or reviews can be done by phone or by personal visit. The idea is for them to take the ball and run. Since they are adults, this process generally is done fairly fast.

 

NEXT: The District

 

Who has a vested interest? Actually, it is the same people that you have been getting to know and trained. They will not remain forever in their job. By the end of the year some of these parents will want to move into another job. Also, there generally are many more parents than there are unit jobs. You will get to know several parents that will not be needed for the Unit operation but would be able to take on a time limited project for the District.

 

Set your priorities and begin the process.

 

Principle: Nothing is wrong with the old people that have been around but most of them have several jobs and cant be bothered with being very successful with just one job.

 

In Scouting,

 

FB

 

 

 

[ozemu 10]

Thanks FB. Your last post has been cut and pasted into my good ideas to consider file.