The Language we use

[Stosh 3452]

@@Hedgehog sparked something for me and I didn't want to highjack the thread.

 

The quote didn't copy over on the spin-off but it is from Hedge.

 

One thing that I've found is that the language we use both reflects our perspective and informs our actions.  So some suggestions:

 

 

 

The subtle differences in language are part of the paradim shift.  A gentle correction to someone else's language (or even correcting your one's own in front of them) is a gentle reminder of the way the program works.  I know what you another person means and how you  they are operating, but being aware of what we others say helps keep others people in line.  So when the SM says "you're in charge of the meeting and get the SPL on board" your response is "I will.  I'll talk to the SPL and tell remind him he is in charge is taking the lead and be there if he needs any assistance."  Rather than telling the SPL that "this is what we are going to do" ask the SPL "what do you think we should do be done?"  

 

Also, can you one start doing an ASM's minute at the end of every meeting?  That is a great way to talk to the adults in the guise of talking to the youth.  I'm sure the adults in the Troop would think it is a good idea (hey, an adult stepping up and teaching the kids).  You The first one could be on failure with the theme being how we everyone learns from failures but that the biggest failure is not trying.  The second one could be on learning by doing.  The thrid one being on leadership.  

 

 

On these forums it is very easy to misread what a person writes.  We generally have some idea in mind and simply slam it out on the keyboard without thinking in terms of the language nuances that can occur.  When I was a moderator on other internet boards they were much more difficult with a higher level of intensity than this one with Scouting.  Because of that I went though the same epiphany with words as those being expressed here by Hedge.  Because of that I write in a style far different than the average person.  I try very hard to avoid the 2nd person YOU in the discussions.  "YOU don't understand!" gets translated into "I can see how someone might look at it from that perspective."

 

The use of the 3rd person plural (WE) is also avoided to a certain extent.  No, I do not speak for others, so I should be speaking only from my own perspective.  In the case of the Scouting forum, the use of WE when referring to the unit membership can be confusing.  Is it referring to the youth? adults? both? or a generic Papal WE.  That's too many options to pick from and misunderstandings are quickly obvious.

 

Then there's the flat out multiple definitions of the terms we ( ) that are used.  For example, NSP is used to describe a certain type of patrol in a BSA unit.  Is it a patrol of NEW SCOUTS, or does NEW SCOUT PATROL have different flavors for different people as to what that really means.  Regular Patrols is the BSA title, but the term Mixed-Aged Patrols floats around a lot and that isn't even BSA terminology.  How many definitions does that phrase carry?  Older Boy Patrol?  Is that the BSA Venture Patrol?  High Adventure ad hoc patrol? Leadership Corps?

 

I'm not always that good at it and Hedge don't be upset with my "corrections", Pick out any number of my postings and one can find linguistic slips all over the place.   But I do try and make the effort to be more clear with what I'm trying to say.

 

Excellent observation....

 

[Hedgehog 334]

@@Stosh - no offense taken.  As Gordon Sumner sings, "Poets, priests and politicians have words to thank for their positions."  As a lawyer, I freqently labor over the best way to express something.  

 

Although my point was about how we (scouters) explain the program to others effects their perception of the program, your comments ("one's comments"?) are well taken.

 

My writing tends to mirror the way I speak -- even more so on a forum where I view the written posts as a discussion.  

 

As  result, using the word "you" reflects how I talk.  I tend to use the word "you" when empowering or encouraging someone ("you can do it)".  I tend to use a more removed pronoun such as "one" or "everyone" when I'm preaching or correcting ("everyone should have taken training).  And yes, I do sometimes use "you" to single someone out ("you need to stop that!").  

 

As a lawyer, I've always been bothered by attorneys that refer to "my client" (e.g. "my client's position is that....") and tend to use pronouns such as "we" instead ("we have shown that the correct interpretation is...).  The use of the word "we" gives the impression that "we" are in this together.

[Stosh 3452]

I have found that the word YOU, especially, when used does carry a "judgmental" or even a confrontational tone to it in many of the discussions even when not intended to be.  I do it this way and you do it differently.  Sounds judgmental? confrontational? or just stating fact?  Hard to tell sometimes.  Of course coupling that with the fact that people often assume the negative, that's a problem as well.  Possessive pronouns are the worst!  My troop vs. Your troop are often fightin' words!  Then again when one uses the Papal WE, does it mean the adults?, youth? both?  The English language is not very precise as some other languages and so we have multiple meanings for a single word.  That generally is a game changer for many discussions.  I'm saying one thing and you're hearing another.  Not good.  Being sensitive to these things, especially when discussing issues in a unit may help keep some of the conflicts and hard feelings in check.  I noticed some talk about the US and THEM on issues.  We are the keepers of the Golden Whatever, and of course implies, YOUR not!  WE are the boy-led, patrol-method people..... does that include the boy-led, patrol-method ASM's struggling in an adult-led troop? 

 

It makes for interesting discussions on the forums, but they can take an ineffective trail off into the woods sometimes that leads to nowhere but grief and hard feelings.

 

By the time we have the pronouns cleared up, then we can start playing with the verbs.  "I TOLD the SPL" vs. "I suggested or hinted to the SPL" types of things.  The SPL is in charge, vs. The SPL is the senior leader that supports and works with the PL's to be successful leaders themselves, etc.  My favorite is always the leadership language vs the management language.   

 

By the time we sort out all the weeds from the produce it's a wonder we don't all starve to death.

Edited July 30, 2016 by Stosh

[Beavah 205]

Yah, hmmmm...

 

I'm not sure it's ever productive to tell/suggest other people how to write, or talk, or whatever.

 

Seems like da better thing is to work harder on listenin'.

 

B

[Stosh 3452]

I may hear every word said, but listening takes understanding. The choice of words an inflection dictates understanding. Inflection is nonexistent in the written word. But the selection of words does alter meanings. This is how poetry works. Prose is altogether different.

 

On the Internet we hear nothing we just see words. Pick them carefully one is not interested in listening as much as understanding.

[Chadamus 100]

Fortunately

we are here

for trustworthiness

not tercet

for loyalty

not landays

for helpfulness

not hexameter

for friendliness

not fourteeners

for courteousness

not couplets

for kindness

not kennings

for obedience

not octaves

for cheerfulness

not choriambs

for thriftiness

not tercets

for bravery

not ballads

for cleanliness

not cadence

for reverence

not refrains

for prose

not poetry

[Beavah 205]

I may hear every word said, but listening takes understanding. 

 

Yah, sure, and understanding takes effort, eh?  Understandin' isn't dictated by the word choice of the speaker, it's dependent on the effort made by the listener.

 

Lots of us have worked with boys of various backgrounds and cultures, international scouting, kids with disabilities and all the rest.  It's really easy for boys to get upset sometimes... "Why won't he act normal?!" (talk the way I want him to talk, act the way I want him to act).  

 

The way we teach lads to deal with Aspergers kids or kids from other cultures is to teach 'em about the perspective and challenges of the other fellow, and help 'em to be better at listening for understanding. Not to try to change the other kid's behaviors or language, but to change the way they interpret it and respond to it.  

 

It's always easier to change ourselves than to try to change the other guy. 

 

Beavah

[Stosh 3452]

When I use the word love in English and Greeks have 3 works that translates love in English. I have been told the Chinese have 17 words for the English love. That means our language tends to be quite imprecise. No, misunderstanding is not the fault of the listener. Choose words better if one wishes to be understood.