Duty to Country

[Zahnada]

Well, another election year is underway. Despite some major differences in regards to the issues, I think both Republicans and Demoncrats (and most other parties for that matter) can agree that it's important for people to take an active role in their government. Part of the Scout Oath refers to a duty to country. It has always been my feeling that a person can best perform that duty to country when they understand the situation of their country. This requires more than simply performing the Pledge of Allegiance every week.

 

So, how do your troops perform their duty to country?

 

Do you discuss politics or the presidential election in your troops?

 

How do you keep such discussions open to understanding and non-preachy? (check out the Issues and Politics section if you want an example of how not to hold political dicussions in your troops)

[ozemu]

Excellant question.

 

I have concentrated at the micro level rather than discussing politics or campaigning. I must say I dont usually know who to trust anyway.

 

What has been done is:

 

not allowing abuse of our countrys leaders on the premise that anyone can poor scorn on public figures but not many can offer better solutions. If they can rationally be critical then they get a good hearing and a discussion.

 

discussing bullying and the teenage tendancy to be negative or even cruel as a defence against cruelty and ridicule to themselves. Standing up for a cause is very hard while putting ideas and people down is easy.

 

regularly including current events in our prayers. People we know, have read or heard about and people facing war, abuse, poverty and disaster anywhere in the world. I am proud of how often they do this unsolicited.

 

regular reference to the Scout Laws in their actions and decision making. These laws are more easily understood than civil laws and political causes. Much easier for a young person to make value based decisions using the Scout Laws than to refer to discuss the history and ideology behind current political issues.

 

Scouts learn by doing. At the Troop level they can do responsible citizenship.

 

This also could be an easy way to hide my own ignorance and ambivilance to politics and politicians

(This message has been edited by ozemu)

[Proud Eagle]

This is a very tricky issue. I certainly don't want to turn Scout camp into Proud Eagle's Political Re-education Camp. I would also hope most Scouts are mature enough not to easily be taken in by someone who does, in part or in whole, turn Scouts into a political tool.

 

Certainly part of duty to country is staying informed about current events. This is important for Scouts, but not as important as it is for voters. For someone that votes, it is a great obligation to remain as informed about current events, politics, and related issues as is possible in their situation. (That doesn't mean that you should read the paper between your favorite reality TV show, instead it needs to be something you make time for, after other important obligations (such as feeding the family, talking to the kids, meeting religious obligations).) So, since we are trying to create good citizens we should certainly encourage the Scouts to stay informed, though that doesn't necessarily mean we should be "informing" them. You could also encourage them to evaluate the latest events, policies, etc based on the values of Scouting, and other values they hold.

 

Beyond that you get into shark infested waters. Perhaps an adult could moderate a discussion, but even that has dangers of favoring one view. I suppose beyond encouraging the Scouts, it is best left to the leader in the local unit to figure out what is appropriate based on their abilities, the Scouts maturity and interests, and other variables.

[mk9750]

We have three Scouts in our Troop who are staunch Democrats. We have one Scout who is a staunch Republican, and another who I think doesn't have a strong point of view, but he likes arguing politics, and always takes the "R" stand.

 

We've been trying to get these guys to put together a debate. The hope was for them to choose sides, research a couple of political ideas (both sides), bring in a debate coach, and have a series of debates, perhaps judged by local politicians.

 

All of the politically active Scouts bought into it, but they've been having a tough time getting it off the ground. I've been doing my level best to keep my hands in my pocket, successfully so far. We have a major event going on this weekend, but after that, I may give them a little nudge. Everyone thinks it's a great idea, we've just had two big things come up, one right after another, that our Scouts have had high profile responsiblity for.

 

"Shark infested waters" is a good description of where you swim if you espouse too much of your own politics. We all know there is a line that shouldn't be crossed, and up to that line, we have a duty to be a source of information about the political process. But extending toes over that line becomes worrisome. It is quite the same as discussing being Reverent with a Scout, and then starting to debate the merits of your own religion -vs- the religion of a Scout and his family. I'd be careful. It's why I said no when the debate idea came up, one of the Scouts who is strongly liberal made the comment he couldn't wait for the chance to debate me. Well, that, and he's smarter than I am!

 

Mark

[acco40]

As Scoutmaster, I continually address issues related to God, Gays and Girls with the boys. (Just kidding folks!

 

Our theme last month was citizenship. While discussing Government in a generic sense tried to show the Scouts that everything was not so black and white (as many of the parents and talk radio hosts seem to think.) I asked if individuals should have the freedom to "do what they want." Almost in unison, the boys agreed whole heartedly. Okay, now what if your neighbor has two unsighlty cars up on blocks in his front yard and works on them a couple of hours a day. Should he be allowed to do this? Now the responses were split more like 50-50. I wasn't really trying to find and answer, there obviously isn't correct answer, but tried to get them thinking about individual rights versus the rights of a community.

 

In general I stay far far away from any current hot-button issues. Most of the boys just duplicate their parents political position anyway at the ages of 11 - 15.

[OldGreyEagle]

Since one of the three aims of scouting is Citizenship, I think any show of it follows the program. Now, I happen to be involved in a Crew that had one member (OutdoorThinker) spend her winter break in Iowa working for Gephardt and had our Charter President working in New Hampshire for Kerry (she was interviewed by Brian Williams on MSNBC)

 

Now, with that mix, you can imagine our political discussions can get passionate, but with respect for other person's beliefs and a scoutlike attitude, such exchanges can be exciting and invigorating.

 

I think both crew members were doing duty to country, anyone involved in the process is so much better than one who is not.

[WHEELER]

Duty to Country means fidelity to the Constitution of the United States. It is the premier law of the land.

 

Duty to Country means that the Constitution is read and understood.

 

Duty to Country is to understand that we live in a Republic and not a Democracy. Loyalty and Fidelity are virtues. Loyalty and fidelity to the original intent of the Founding Fathers.

 

It is important that boys understand the difference between a Republic and a Democracy.

 

There is a post at "Issues and Politics" on "What is a Republic".

 

This is the first and primary duty.

[Marty_Doyle]

"first and primary duty"?

I don't know if that sounds more like a BORG or Robby the Robot.....

[WHEELER]

Xenophon in the Memorbilia, 4.4.14f, writes that Socrates made it a point to emphasize that "the ideal of obedience to law as the highest civic virtue." (1) Some people want to derail true politics about discussing "rights". But in religion and in the state, it is obedience to laws that is the highest regard and the toughest to attain. The destruction of this country is due to the non-obedience to Scripture and the Constitution.

 

True patriotism is that which there is a "LOVE" of the laws of ones' own country for they form the "soul" of the country. If you love the laws of your country, then you love your country. Patriotism.

 

 

(1) Paideia, The Ideals of Greek Culture, Werner Jaeger, trans by Gilbert Highet, Vol II, pg 49.

[Fat Old Guy]

"True patriotism is that which there is a "LOVE" of the laws of ones' own country for they form the "soul" of the country. If you love the laws of your country, then you love your country. Patriotism."

 

Don't know if I can buy that. Did the true German patriots during the 1930s and early 40s love their country's laws? What about Russian patriots during most of the 20th century? I suppose that South African patriots all supported aparthied?

 

What do you suppose is the patriotism level of an employer that exports jobs to other countries? Not things like factory jobs, but highly skilled jobs like programming?

[acco40]

I don't think a "love of the laws" encouraged some to dump tea into Boston harbor. It is one thing to follow such laws (a Scout is obedient) but no such requirement to love the law. Some state laws vary quite markedly. Should my "love" change because of my residence? Did blacks in the south not show patriotism for not loving the Jim Crow laws on the books? Did Rosa Parks show the antithesis of patriotism for not sitting on the back of the bus? Wheeler, your shallow understanding of life continues to amaze me.

[Fat Old Guy]

Stapler Guy, Wheeler and Bob White share a common trait, they only parrot what others have written.

 

Consider that to the King Geo. Washington, TJ, et al were all traitors a could have been hung upon capture.