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KenD500

National Outdoor Award - Camping

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@@Hedgehog I'm not sure about family trips to be honest. The section quoted above comes straight from the same source. I take that to mean that the scout can do these events by himself, with friends or with a family member provided they are done specifically for the MB. The wording seemed to directly preclude "family" events.

 

It would be interesting to get BSA's definition on family events. Most families don't hike or backpack but I could see an MBC giving credit for a scout where families did do that. I suspect BSA is trying to avoid scouts taking credit for the impromptu family hike that might happen on a family vacation.

 

MBCs have some latitude here. It it's obvious the scout planned or completed the activity according to the requirements it should be immaterial who went along for the trek, as long as the requirements were met.

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I'm thinking that if the boy plans out the hike FOR THE FAMILY it should count as well.  

 

"Well, Little Johnny, what do you want to do this weekend?"

 

"I think we should go hiking at XXXXX State Park and see the XXXXX and have a picnic, and I get to plan it all out for everyone."

 

Okay, that isn't going to count?  Just because he's going with his family and not his buddies?  Doesn't make sense to me.

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I'm thinking that if the boy plans out the hike FOR THE FAMILY it should count as well.  

 

"Well, Little Johnny, what do you want to do this weekend?"

 

"I think we should go hiking at XXXXX State Park and see the XXXXX and have a picnic, and I get to plan it all out for everyone."

 

Okay, that isn't going to count?  Just because he's going with his family and not his buddies?  Doesn't make sense to me.

 

Exactly. I suspect BSA wants to avoid giving credit for the 10 mile hike dad says the family has to go on when they hit Big Bend NP and then have that count towards an MB.

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@, I don't think we are disagreeing.

 

MBCs have some latitude here. It it's obvious the scout planned or completed the activity according to the requirements it should be immaterial who went along for the trek, as long as the requirements were met.

 

I think that is the test.  If it counts for the merit badge, it counts for the award.  For the Hiking merit badge, they need to prepare a hike plan and do the hike for it to count.  It doesn't matter who they do it with.  For the Backpacking merit badge they have to "participate" in the three 3 day 15 mile treks and write a plan for and then do the 5 day 30 mile hike.  Again, it doesn't matter who they do it with.  For those badges, I accept hikes and treks done with family or other groups because the requirements don't say it has to be done through scouting.   I have a scout going on a 4 day backpacking trip with his Eagle Scout Uncle in Alaska this summer -- you can bet I"m giving him credit for that for the Backpacking Merit Badge.  

 

Outside of the merit badge context, nothing done with family counts.  My son and I could backpack the entire AT next summer and that wouldn't count toward the award.  I guess that makes sense because it forces scout programs to become more outdoor oriented (you want the award, you plan outdoor activities that count toward the award).  Fortunately, as a troop, we camp 12+ nights a year (not including summer camp), hike 5 to 8 miles on most campouts, have monthly bike rides or hikes,  try to schedule two 15 mile backpacking treks and one thirty plus mile trek and do at least one float trip.

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Outside of the merit badge context, nothing done with family counts.  My son and I could backpack the entire AT next summer and that wouldn't count toward the award.

Sure it would. BSA doesn't want to count family events that are obviously not meeting the requirements. Visiting the Grand Canyon and dad says let's go hiking does not count. Son and dad hiking the AT would count.

 

For me the litmus test is whether it was planned and executed according to the requirements. It's preferred it be done on scout events, but not required.

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@@Hedgehog I'm not sure about family trips to be honest. The section quoted above comes straight from the same source. I take that to mean that the scout can do these events by himself, with friends or with a family member provided they are done specifically for the MB. The wording seemed to directly preclude "family" events.

 

It would be interesting to get BSA's definition on family events. Most families don't hike or backpack but I could see an MBC giving credit for a scout where families did do that. I suspect BSA is trying to avoid scouts taking credit for the impromptu family hike that might happen on a family vacation.

 

MBCs have some latitude here. It it's obvious the scout planned or completed the activity according to the requirements it should be immaterial who went along for the trek, as long as the requirements were met.

 

The MB requirements for backpacking have parts that require doing things that involve his patrol/crew, and others that don't specify.  To me that indicates that a family trip (as long as the Scout is doing the planning, etc.), would count. (my paste renumbered, so the 1 should be 9, 2 should be 10, 3 should be 11).  #9 (1), IMHO, requires it be a BSA event.  #10 (2) could be outside of scouting, and #10 (3) could be outside of scouting.

http://www.scouting.org/Home/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-BACK.aspx

 

  1. Do the following:
    1. Write a plan that includes a schedule for a patrol/crew backpacking hike of at least 2 miles.
    2. Conduct a prehike inspection of the patrol and its equipment.
    3. Show that you know how to properly pack your personal gear and your share of the crew’s gear and food.
    4. Show you can properly shoulder your pack and adjust it for proper wear.
    5. While using the plan you developed for requirement 9a, carry your fully loaded pack to complete a hike of at least 2 miles.
  2. Using Leave No Trace principles, participate in at least three backpacking treks of at least three days each and at least 15 miles each, and using at least two different campsites on each trek. Carry everything you will need throughout the trek.
  3. Do the following:
    1. Write a plan for a backpacking trek of at least five days using at least three different campsites and covering at least 30 miles. Your plan must include a description of and route to the trek area, a schedule (including a daily schedule), a list of food and equipment needs, a safety and emergency plan, and a budget.
    2. Using Leave No Trace principles, take the trek you have planned and, while on the trek, complete at least one service project approved by your merit badge counselor.
    3. Keep a daily journal during the trek that includes a day-by-day description of your activities, including notes about what worked well and thoughts about improvements that could be made for the next trek.

 

Hiking is similar, but, IMHO, requires no Scouting involvement.

http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/BoyScouts/AdvancementandAwards/MeritBadges/mb-HIKE.aspx

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Exactly. I suspect BSA wants to avoid giving credit for the 10 mile hike dad says the family has to go on when they hit Big Bend NP and then have that count towards an MB.

 

Well, if they did it as part of the Hiking MB, I think BSA (or the MBC) would need to give credit.  No language in the Hiking MB implies under the auspices of BSA.  Those miles could also go into the Hiking segment of the National Outdoor award.

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